Master Chief needs an additional key+ Some upgrades to it.

[VersusJunkie54]

Real talk people, the guy's profile is too disorganized and mixed up.

His MJOLNIR armor should be seperated into two keys. Gen 1 MJOLNIR and Gen 2 MJOLNIR

I say this because MC has considerably differint equipment between them. For one, the current profile assumes that MC can get his Promethean Weapons when MC was in his Mk4 Shieldless armor, decades before even encountering Prometheans!

So Promethean Weapons and all the other variants and stuff we see Halo 4 and beyond should be Gen 2 exclusive.

There's also an established power differential between them as well. Gen 2 should logically be superior to Gen 1.

"But Versus it was stated that Spartan 4's in Gen 2 are equal to Spartan 2's in Gen 1"

Yeah, no Feats>Statements. That's the way it has always been here. If the Gen 2 wasn't stronger and more powerfull, what would even be the point of making it to begin with? New generations of the armor have always been developed that way in universe.

Spartan 2's and 4's in Gen 2 Mjolnir can kill a Promethean Soldier in 3-4 punches. And can kill a weakened one with a single curbstomp as seen here. https://youtu.be/AJzuzmD7Jls?t=18

So that's right, I'm suggesting a bit of an AP boost.

I'm suggesting Gen 2 Spartans to baseline 8-C based on what I just mentioned, and already being considerably stronger than a 564 Megajoule feat. Said feat is only like 85% below baseline 8-C to begin with. I don't think that is too much of a stretch. Plus, a Spartan 4 preformed a 9-A feat pretty much effortlessly anyways.

"But Versus MC has so many times he was nearly killed be 9-B 9-A 8-C blah blah"

No, those instances are overwhlemingly grounded in previous generations of MJOLNIR armor. And thus, I can't imagine why you'd even argue against it with said moments. It would be like saying Meliodas from NNT shouldn't be 6-A in his Assault Mode because he is consistently harmed/nearly killed by High 6-B attacks in his previous forms. It's nonsensical to downplay a character based on feats that occoured in blatantly weaker forms.

As for shield Strength. Either just higher, or even Building level+

My reasoning for this is as follows. The Binary Rifle/Scattershot Ionize Spartans pretty much instantly. Meaning a full burst or a direct hit isn't even needed to ionize them. However their shields can withstand hits from both for more than just an instant. Usually Half a second to a second. I'm aware that isn't much. But it's something. Spoartan Shields can also withstand a Splinter Grenade without being destroyed in an instant. Said grenades can Ionize Spartans and Hunters.

Also, MC's standard UNSC weapons can be armed with Kinetic Bolts that enhance its attack power. A while back I even saw it Ionizing a Hunter, and it can easily Ionize Spartans. But if that's too much, we could just say Kinetic Bolts ignore durability. I'd have to get some footage, but I wouldn't lie about something like this.

As for Speed, I don't see anything as of yet to warrant any changes. Only that we should note they should be somewhat faster than previous itterations of MJOLNIR

So who should scale?

Most Brutes of course, Atriox, Prometehan Soldiers and Knights, Thel Vadam possibly scales but we don't have any concrete evidence there. Maybe his Kaidon armor enhances him or something. I'm going to pick up Halo Bad Blood later today, witch covers events following Halo 5's ending. So Hopefully I can find some solid stuff in there.

Also, there where some calcs on the OBD with some good results. But I don't think we ever decided on something good to use.

https://web.archive.org/web/2017122...ry/halo-a-spartan-will-rise-part-three.25400/

TLDR(But seriously just read what I wrote): Spartans in get a new Gen 2 Mjolnir key, and get buffed to baseline 8-C, with their shields either getting a "Higher" rating, or Building level+

Kinetic Bolts on UNSC weapons get a defined rating.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, his profile is mixed up, but I'm working on the weapons section specifically. And the Gen 1 and Gen 2 keys could separate the weapons better I suppose, but it's the tier jumps are what I'm kind of skeptical about.

I agree that Combining Gen 4 armor with Promethean weapons is really bad, but where would the nuclear weapons be placed? Though, I suppose removing them from the profile is an option since those are kind of, outside help. It's true that Gen 2 > Gen 1, but the gap isn't massive or anything. Though, don't Spartans using assassinations typically involve them attacking them with their own weapons? Oh wait, actually that was a ground pound Locke did against that Soldier. Though, it's possible that he struck one of their pressure points; which pressure points are typically durability negation.

I guess I might be alright with upgrading Gen 2 to baseline 8-C for those reasons; since there's a rough where in between scenario. But I want to here Soldier Blue's thoughts first. The shields being scaled from Scattershot is what's iffy though. It may be a half a second to a second of resisting, but it's still a one shot so scaling durability seems like a big no. However, Higher with shields is fine though. I don't remember them surviving Splinter Grenades at point blank range though.

Ionized Bullets actually are a thing IRL, this Railgun uses them. Also, my calcs for the UNSC weapons are based on the Halo 4 to 5 variants. MA5D uses M118 7.62x51mm Full Metal Jacket Armor Piercing bullets which are 11 grams and muzzle velocity is 792 m/s. Kinetic energy = 3450 Joules. And the Sniper Rifle fires 14.5x114 mm Armor Piercing Fin Stabilized Discarding Sabot bullet at 1530 m/s. The kinetic energy of the 66.5 gram bullet would be 77834.925 joules. Bullets do give more damage then what they're calc'd at via penetration, but I'm pretty sure ionizing the targets is just game mechanics. Even Shotguns and Handguns in Doom 64 vaporize targets, so I'm pretty sure the Kinetic Bolts ionizing targets is game mechanics.

As for speed, At least Supersonic for their combat speed is reasonable. Atriox scales for sure as do the Prometheans, unsure about Thel, but maybe he could get a 2nd key. And that blog on Naruto Forums was brought up in another thread a year ago, but it was agreed that just about all of those calcs were... Bad for various reasons; there was way too much Calculation violations; Multiplier stacking, Damage Stacking, Outdated formula for human vaporization, using vaporization value for something that isn't vaporization, ect.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

So for the MA5B and other weapons that can equip Kinetic Bolts, prehaps "Higher" with Kinetic bolts is better?

I don't think the Spartan stomped on a pressure point. And even then, they can kill Soldiers who have Building level+ dura with 3 to 4 punches. I doubt a High-End 9-A could even make a 8-C+ flinch tbh. So I think an 85%-ish increase is a reasonable lowball.

I'll try and see if I can either find, or make a good clip showing a Spartan being killed by a Splinter Grenade, and walking throgh it with their shields active and survive. But untill then "Higher" should be alright.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

https://youtu.be/EtNU4QuQXIM?t=124

A single one of the Splinter Fragments ionizes a Spartan. The shields can take two before going down.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

You can check the Knowledgeable Members List to find people to ask to comment here.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Me, DDM, Karmodf, and on occasion Soldier Blue seem to be the only people who care enough about Halo to participate in revision threads. So I doubt we're going to get more than that.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, you can ask them then.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Higher with Kinetic bolts for the UNSC weapons seems reasonable. I'm also alright with Gen 2 being 8-C physically, and that video about the Splinter grenade seems legit, but I'm still not comfortable giving the "+" sign the the shield's durability; scaling durability to attacks that kill them fast, or ends with an overkill seems iffy. While he can withstand two sparks, the third spark suddenly ionizes the Spartan. And main point is the entire grenade, which has about 6 or 7 sparks by the looks of it, definitely ionizes them. However, Higher with shielding is still good.

I would like to hear Soldier Blue's input for sure though.

 

[Antvasima]

You can politely ask him to comment here via his message wall.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Higher with Kinetic bolts for the UNSC weapons seems reasonable. I'm also alright with Gen 2 being 8-C physically, and that video about the Splinter grenade seems legit, but I'm still not comfortable giving the "+" sign the the shield's durability; scaling durability to attacks that kill them fast, or ends with an overkill seems iffy. While he can withstand two sparks, the third spark suddenly ionizes the Spartan. And main point is the entire grenade, which has about 6 or 7 sparks by the looks of it, definitely ionizes them. However, Higher with shielding is still good.
I would like to hear Soldier Blue's input for sure though.

I think you're forgetting that a single one of those Sparks instaionizes a shieldless Spartan. While the shields can take two before they go down. This would also be an indicator that the Splinter is the weakest of the 8-C+ weapons.

Remember, it only instakills them if their shields are down.

I'll go messege Soldier Blue and Karmodf

Edit: nvm DDM got Blue

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Oksy I've just started reading Halo Bad Blood, and literally a few pages in, Buck kills a Promethean Soldier with a single Curbstomp.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

bump. The dudes we messaged seemed to ignore our messages

 

[KarmodF]

Seems ok, tough, Goblin and Warden should be Low 7-C general at this point, or at least Dura. based, making them John's second strongest enemies.

I searched about speed in the Halo reddit to see some notable feats but It just got filled with prequel memes.


Welp, mission failed.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Low 7-C is dubious. Since both can eventually be brought down by consecutive Wraith Mortar shots.

Also, should the Goblin be merged with the new Unggoy profile or not? Because WeeklyBattles lokced the profile because I removed redundancies. I think that is a blatant abuse of power.

Edit: I'm also reading Halo Bad Blood for potential feats

 

[KarmodF]

Have you counted them? Because you need at least like 20 shots to take down a goblin, even then, Warden should be a little bit on the other end since he should have taken heavy fire during his service as the Mantle Guard.

Dont know, I feel it should be his own since there is already a Grunt Jockey

 

[KarmodF]

Thought take that statement with a grain of salt since there is no evidence of them taking Incineration Canons canonically, only gameplay, wich Warden's durability would be like Town level+ since he ates them pretty much, but able to survive one? Quite confident about it.

 

[Antvasima]

Soldier Blue has been gone from the wiki for a few days. It might be best to simply wait for a while longer.

 

[XING06]

I have a pretty good feat for shields. In Halo: Uprising 1, John takes around 6 or so direct assault cannon shots and survives. This means he's definitely at least 8-C+ for shields as 6 fuel rod shots is close to 1.5 tons of tnt. Honestly, it's probably more because his plating is fine and he's mostly just badly stunned, which allows a Brute Chieftain to pin him.
Also, his armorless AP be should definitely be higher than 9B. The exoskeleton he kicked was the Mark 1 MJOLNIR which we know is very heavy (Mark 1-3 armor weren't based on the reactive metal crystal that allows the Mark 4+ to be so thin) b/c the MARK II and III were slimmed down but still too bulky compared to the Mark IV. The Cyclops is pretty much the Mark III armor and it's like 2 times larger than the Mark IV so probably weighs like 2-4 tons. Also he disabled a Mark I suit by punching it multiple times, and the Mark I should definitely be stronger than wall level at least roughly comparable to the Cylops/Mark IV in terms of durability (being described as human-powered defense structures).

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yeah, Soldier Blue's probably busy with RL; which is perfectly understandable and I can relate to that. But I do want to wait for him either way.

Okay, now that I think about it, I don't think we should scale the durability of Promethean Soldiers to the Binary Rifle or Scattershot. They may be able to survive the attacks on higher difficulty ratings, but I think they get one shotted by them on the easier difficulty settings. So it might be game mechanics. We don't scale Link to the Darknuts in Twilight Princess just because they take multiple hits to kill or are a challenge in game. I generally hear Promethean Soldiers considered equal to the Elites though. So on second thought, I might be skeptical about these upgrades. Lancer Knights however I think are good where they're at though.

As for the Warden Eternal and Grunt Goblin, Low 7-C Attack Potency seems really pushing it; especially for Grunt Goblin. That being said, the number of Wraith Mortars he takes is to kill him them isn't the primary point. He can take multiple hits, so scaling to that is fine, but a character with Small Town level durability should generally be completely invulnerable to Large Building level+ attacks. That being said, if Warden Eternals never survived, then maybe they shouldn't have the Small Town level durability rating. Or at least keep the at most behind it. Goblin shouldn't have that durability rating IMO; especially since they should be inferior to the 8-A Scarabs.

Also @Versus, mentioning on that other thread about the two profiles. I'm personally fine with Unggoys having a key for Goblin. The Grunt Goblin as a stand alone profile should be treated more as vehicle profile rather than a character profile. And it's no different then what The Star Fox Team have or on topic what Didact has, so it's all good. Though, I do agree that plagarism needed to be removed. Though, is it really that if it's on the same wiki? Still differentiated text would be prefered either way.

Also, @Xing, you can't really stack Attack Potency/Durability just like that. The Fuel Rod is a hair away from being baseline 8-C yes, but multiple hits =/= multiple times the same energy. Just because someone can survive a trillions or quadrillions of normal human punches doesn't mean they can survive a nuke. Still, that was the Mk VI suit is it not? That's still a legit Building level durability with shields feat.

Also, that exoskeleton feat is still 9-B. John while wearing Mjolnir is 450 kg, but without John, who weighs 130 kg, Mjolnir would be 320 kg. 2-4 tons is high balling it. I'll go ahead and use the high end to show you it still be 9-B regardless. Kinetic energy of kicking it 8 meters in half a second would be 16 m/s. 0.5 * 4000 kg * (16 m/s)^2 = 512,000 Joules which is still 9-B. And again, that's only via high balls, so since Mk 4 and beyond is more like 320 kg, is around 2-3x heavier at most. Still, it's 9-B and Class 5 lifting strength.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If i may, why was the Super Mac Cannon removed from Chief's profile but not the tactical nukes?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

It's not really a weapons John carries or normally has access to, but instead, it's outside help from the UNSC Infinity. However, I was wondering whether or not we should get rid of the nukes from his profile as well which I'm personally neutral towards but leaning toward removing them. IMO, it's also technically outside help since he needs to contact a nearby ship that carries the nukes. It's not like StarCraft Ghosts who can summon their nukes telekinetically.

Also @Weekly, forgot to mention that the T'Vaoan profile looks great ^^

 

[VersusJunkie54]

@DDM

Soldiers don't get one-shotted by Scattershots and Binary rifles. Not even on easy. They can take like 2-3 shots before going down. So I think they absolutely scale. And I've never heard about Soldiers being equal to Elites, like anyhwere. But baseline Building level still has other supporting evidence. That, and Soldiers can also take the explosive bolts from a Splinter grenade, a single one is of course capable of ionizing a Spartan.

Master Chief taking extremely casual blows from a Low 7-B/7-B to his physical armor counts for something. Being able to cause light damage to a Golbin/Warden and Knights with physical strikes.

Yeah, Low 7-C Warden is vaugely plausable. But not the Goblin.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Also I should add that Soldiers can quite easily tank Fuel Rods, witch are absurdly close to 8-C to begin with. And in Halo Bad Blood, Buck casually killed a Soldier with a stomp. So it still stands even without scaling from their 8-C+ dura.

 

[KarmodF]

I feel like Scarabs should be superior to Low 7-C, they have the landing feat + scaling them to be superior to Grunt Goblins, I mean if Goblins we're that strong the Banished should be deploying them everywhere.

The Low 7-C is constant gameplay wise since they tank both mortars and incineration canons for breakfast, so its quite consistant, mostly for the Warden, and as always Chief wouldnt scale unless he has better Tier 8 feats.

Altought just Dura. based because the scaling can be broken when we take into account Spartans already take them on (Altough with Promethean equipment).

 

[XING06]

@DarkDragon

Yeah but the other one he attacked was broken/disabled entirely ("On top of the bunker, John was a blur of slashing motions. A second guard's exosuit erupted in a fountain of hydraulic fluid and then collapsed under the armor's weight") not just knocked back. If we consider that the Mark I shouldn't be that inferior to the Mark IV in terms of durability (especially b/c they both use physical plate armor and that the Cyclops derived from the Mark I is just as durable as any MJOLNIR armor), then that's easily a 9A feat.

Also, I get why we can't stack durability but can't we stack shields? They do work by wrapping the armor in energized particles that have the ability to absorb energy. If it absorbs too much energy, it eventually fails. So it pretty much works pretty similar to the game mechanics, each hit drains the battery a set amount, so we can figure out the maximum amount it can take through total number of smaller hits right? It's why human assault rifle/machine gun rounds can still pose a minor threat to his shields if used to dump massive ammounts ammunition at him; his shields drain slowly through chip damage. ("The shield was useful, but under combined fire it dropped very quickly" - Note: this is his Mark V armor).

His armorless speed can actually be upgraded too as the stun rounds he dodged in training used rely on physical force to stun someone ("the stun ammunition used in the SPARTAN-IIs' and IIIs' training are a distinct type of round, being rubber bullets which numb the targets they hit by the sheer force of the impact alone rather than an anesthetic in the case of the TTR round") meaning that they still have high enough velocity to at least be 9B, especially considering a trainer in Mark 1 armor was knocked off a platform after being hit with a burst.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Versus, Oh okay, I'm fine with perhaps Building level durability, which would in turn scale to the Gen 2 Spartans, but I'm still super iffy on Building level+. They'll be above baseline for sure though. Taking hits from Didact is a significant outlier, as Batman taking hits from 4-B characters like Superman or Doomsday doesn't really count for anything. Neither does Bulma taking a slap from Beerus. Giving light damage to the bosses with physical strikes seems iffy, but light damage to Lancer Knights is also fair. 8-C for gen 2 still legit then.

@KarmodF Accept the best accepted Scarab feat was 8-A and also, I looked at the crash landing feat again, and it was calc'd improperly. I noticed it made use of calc stacking from a calc that was rejected no less. I'll use Potential energy for crash landing. Orbit is 160 Km or 160,000 meters, Scarabs are 171.8 metric tons to 171,800 kg, and Acceleration do to gravity is 9.807 m/s^2. 160,000 meters * 171,800 kg * 9.807 m/s^2 = 269,574,816,000 Joules or 64.4299273423 tons which is only City Block level. Yeah, just go with the 8-A calc I did for the scarabs. Low 7-C Grunt Goblins is a definite no; but High 8-C is more reasonable. They don't really eat Incineration Cannons for breakfast since they can die really fast. They do tank Wraith Mortars rather casually, but damage ratings are game mechanics. Keep in mind that Spartan Lasers technically give more damage in game than Wraith Mortars, Binary Rifles, or Scatter Shots, but less damage than the Incineration Cannon still. Also, scaling characters to vehicles is often, bad; they got all these different rules for scaling I should add.

Also, I have a confession to make, some of my calcs for the heavier weapons are actually high balled. My Scorpion Missile calc is under the assumption that a single Scorpion tank completely destroys a Scorpion tank. But iirc, it actually takes a few; would still be in the high up 9-A to 8-C range, but doubtful about 3 Gigajoules. Also, a single Scorpion tank or two more so heavily dents a tank rather than causes it to completely explode. Spartan lasers are high balled too; I used the Pulverization value when Violent Fragmentation would have been more accurate tbh; there were visible shards. Would still be 8-C, but it might lose the "+" sign when I correct it.

But the biggest calc that might be high balled is the Incineration Cannon. It's under a heavy assumption that it completely vaporizes the Proto-Graveminds with a single blast; for all we know, it probably takes multiple Incineration cannons, but time frame and number of shots are never specified. Assuming it takes one shot is about as speculative as 3-A Kid Buu or Planet level Yu Yu Hakusho characters. Also, I have another doubt that Grunt Goblins are more durable than Proto Gravemind Floods. I'm not even sure if Scarabs or Warden Eternals are intended to be as durable as the Gravemind.

@Xing again, I hate the idea of scaling characters to inanimate objects as do many people on this site do. You did say it yourself that the Mk 1 suits are literally just a hunk of metal. Mk 4 and beyond are more than just "Hunks of metal," they're a lot more well made with other types of technology including this crystal thing you mentioned. As well as they have cybernetics that multiply the muscles of the wearer; Mk 3 and before didn't really have much of that. The 9-A feats came from how strong and durable Mk 4 and beyond Spartans and the Armor are while they're wearing it. If a Spartan takes off their suit, they become much weaker physically, and the suit itself has no host to comfortably fasten around so that becomes less durable too. Also, back to the part Mk 4 suits being more well made. If Spartan Armors had their shields turned off and were treated as just that, a generic hunk of metal, than the durability would technically still be Wall level. Mk 3 and before were literally just hunks of metal. Punching through a wall made of Titanium is still a high up Wall level feat.

Additionally, Suitless Spartans being 9-A is also super iffy. I'm positive that in just their skin, they'd be susceptible to bullets and especially the sniper rifle. Also, Johnson and the others were freaking out over the 2 kilometer fall which was calc'd at 8 Megajoules, lower if Spartan armor was off due to being lighter. However, I'm not okay with adding an "At least" before the 9-B rating, but that's really the highest I can allow. Not to mention, that feat you mentioned about the guard collapsing really sounds like the same thing mentioned in that one Game Theory episode. Not to mention, "punching the suit and causing the guard to collapse" sounds more like a chain reaction feat.

Stacking Shields isn't really aloud either and even then, it's really inconsistent. If we went by statements, them Mjolnir's shields would be 15 Megajoules which would be Wall level+. That's too low yes, but even then; there's too many inconsistencies for how strong shields are. Keep in mind that in Ghost of Onyx, all it took was two Type-25 Directed Plasma Rifles at point blank range, which is Wall level and varies from 200,000 to 450,000 joules; 100,000 to 150,000 watts that last 2-3 seconds, each was able to completely 75% of a Mk 5 shield. Even if we used Calc Stacking for that and using the high end, 450,000 * 2 / 0.75 = 1,200,000 joules; that's even lower than the statement. So yeah, please no Calc Stacking/Damage Stacking, and go with the 8-C Fuel Rod; no "+" sign.

That, also sounds like Calc Stacking. Stun Rounds are still designed to be Non-Lethal. It's stated that they might be lethal to normal humans if fired at point blank, but they're still slower and weaker than actual bullets. In fact, they were actually compared to darts and paintball guns of all things. I doubt the stun rounds are any higher than Street level as even Magnum and Assault Rifles are Street level; can damage people higher than that via penetration are likely higher with plasma enhancements in Halo 5 yes but still. I don't think Stun rounds should be treated higher than what they currently are.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Gen 1 and unarmored Spartans are fine where they are. Gen 2 is what this thread is centered around.

I still insist on Gen 2 Spartans shields being 8-C+. The scan I posed with the Splinter Grenade is more than enough.

In fact, it would imply that the Scattershot and Binary Rifle are much stronger since they can almost instantly overpower a Spartan's shields.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I was going to mention another thing in the first paragraph. The way Splinter Grenades work is actually kind of weird, is the floating sparks really how they work in canon, or is that game mechanics and they're suppose to be just an explosion? Fine, I guess I'll lean towards being okay with Shields being getting a "+" sign for Gen 2, with Scattershots and Binary Rifle being treated as somewhat higher. But I still want Soldier Blue to come back.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

The Halo 4 and 5 Splinters are diffierent for some reason. So I can only assume its either a new variant put in place, or the previous version was retconned.

 

[KarmodF]

Why do you want me to accept that their best feat is 8-A when we barely have any calcs. like if they were stancked in that tier forever? Not to mention that Goblins and Wardens do take a lot of Incineration Canons to even take down, this is gameplay wise, since there is no feat higher than them surviving against Spartans in a fight, no other canon feat.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Sigh, because reverse power scaling is bad and I don't know how many times I have to tell you. There's two 8-B feats, and one 8-A feat that are accepted. Scaling the Attack Potency of characters to the durability of inanimate objects, and scaling those inanimate objects to weaker characters or vehicles is also bad. Solid Snake used to be 8-A for similar reasons a while back, but that was deemed questionable. Chip damaging or flipping over 8-B to Low 7-C Metal Gears doesn't scale to Snake anymore; neither does sort of going toe to toe with Raiden or Gray Fox.

James Raynor, Tychus Findlay, and Vulture bikes from StarCraft can survive attacks from Ultralisks, Battlecruisers or the Leviatha in game, does that mean they scale? We also don't the High 6-A Protoss Heroes to the Capital Ships for similar reasons. And actually, it doesn't take that many Incineration Cannons to kill Grunt Goblin or Warden Eternal. It takes 4-5 hits at most; that still scale worthy somewhat if not game mechanics, but we can't ignore that weapons way weaker than Tier 7 can kill Warden Eternals and Grunt Goblins eventually. Doom 2016 Cyberdemons can take way more BFG rounds than Warden Eternals can take Incineration Cannon rounds. Dark Nuts can take many hits from End game Link with the Master Sword in game, but that doesn't mean Darknuts are High 5-A.

And again, my Incineration Cannon calc that puts it at Low 7-C I might be dubious on. We might need to downgrade it which will in turn downgrade downgrade those bosses for sure. And read my reasons why above.

 

[KarmodF]

No, you are exagerating what I say above, Its not even reverse powerscal. since I was just basing the fact that the Scarab should be stronger than the Goblin or even Warden, just basic powerscaling that you seem to not understand.

Even one warden can tank an entire 4 shots, and as I mention above even before you mentioned, yes Its gameplay wise there is no canon evidence that they can survive as many in any novel, comic, etc...

Even then 8-A would be more consistent putting both in the 8-A rank with the Scarab being very high on that aspect, altough Low 7-C is fine as of now.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Vehicles also have different rules for power scaling than characters do; their durability works differently also, especially if their much larger. I know how powerscaling works full well. Saying, "Scorpions tanks are more durable than Spartans" which you also mentioned on a previous thread a long time ago is also reverse power scaling. What bullets and vehicles made from real world technology; lead and titanium respectively, is what they are. Durability of each part of the tank is energy required to either melt or break Titanium said spot. It's complicated to explain, but it's how it is. Fictional metals such as Adamantium or Cyborgs and certain robots are a different story.

Damage ratings of guns is game mechanics and nothing more. Area of effect, and change of temperature is their Attack Potency of an energy/heat based weapon, or kinetic energy of a bullet is what they are. We don't say thing like the bullets harming characters on John's level makes it 9-A or plasma projectiles landing hits on them making it Supersonic Muzzle velocity. For muzzle velocity of projectiles, you either user cinematic time to calc it, use the official guidebook statements, or just consider dodging plasma unquantifiable. It's not like any of these weapons are magic or spirit energy based. Melee weapons are also different since the Attack Potency of most swords is typically dependent on the wielder and martial artists are capable of precision strikes.

Still, it could be that it took an army of Prometheans using Incineration Cannon and bombarding the Proto-Gravemind Floods to ionize it. We might need to go back to just scaling it from Ionizing Hunters or High 8-C for that matter. Also, saying that Warden Eternals or Goblins never survived Incineration Cannons in canon is another possible reason to downgrade them if anything. I especially agree with Grunt Goblin being downgraded to High 8-C for all stats including durability. Warden Eternal, I'm unsure, but if we downgrade Incineration Canon, then we will downgrade his durability too. Also, there is no direct proof one way or the other if Scarabs or Incineration Cannon are stronger, but Goblins are clearly way weaker than Scarabs. Warden Eternal is also harder to judge, but still. But I don't think Scarabs can vaporize Proto-Graveminds in one shot let alone Goblins or Warden Eternals definitely can't; especially not the Goblins.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

There's nothing horribly wrong with the current Incineration cannon calc.

Promethean Weapons tend to ionize things as a sort of chain or spreading effect. But maybe we could make some assumptions on how many Incineration cannons it could've taken? I'd say a squad size of 5-10 would be reasonable.

The entry for the Incinerator states that its used for operations too large for infantry weapons, heacy infantry included. But also too small for spaceborne weapons.

Also, the Entry didn't say anything about Proto-Graveminds nessecarily. But an actual legit gravemind. Possibly like what we see in Halo 2.

 

[Antvasima]

@Medeus

So what are the TLDR conclusions here?

 

[VersusJunkie54]

Master Chief gets a new key which is 8-C physically. With 8-C+ dura via shields. Scales to dudes like Atriox, Promethean Knights and Soldiers to an extent, and Gen 2 Spartans. Said key also separates a bunch of mixed up weapons and abilities.

Incineration cannon needs to see some adjustments.

At least Supersonic for Combat/Reaction speed.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

We're still discussing other things, but another key for the Halo Spartans was generally agreed, as with them being 8-C physically for that third key with their Shields having possibly Building level+ durability based on a calc. Also and At least for Supersonic combat speed and reactions for that key.

 

[VersusJunkie54]

@DDM. Do you know how to put scans into Imigur so justifications can have a bit more credibility?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I don't really have skills with Imgur at the moment, but I do agree that would be a good idea. I do plan on learning how to use that in the near future.