• This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.

    For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here.
  • We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.

    Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.

    Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page.
  • Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.

Massive MCU revision

Status
Not open for further replies.
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

VS Battles
Calculation Group
11,098
4,321
Typed this for so long but accidentally deleted it lol, had to start all over again.

So, finally I've completed the Harry Potter revisions and the DCEU speed revisions, I can finally start this.

Kree scaling
Previously, we deemed the Kree-Asgardian scaling unreasonable. However, I am going to revise that.

I think Captain Marvel further confirms universal Kree scaling makes no sense. Captain Marvel before unlocking her full powers is 9-B at best, still destroying troops of Kree. This is furthermore confirmed by Ronan destroying Drax, while Korath being killed by the latter. Plus, Hive states that they are "powerful Reapers". I believe Vin-Tak should be considered an above-average Kree and scale to Asgardians, or High 7-C.

Quake, Hive, Bobbi Reyes and Graviton would be High 7-C in attack potency physically scaling from Vin-Tak since they all have superhuman strength and durability. Daisy's durability would around 7-A or above for absorbing the earthquake energy into her body giving Ghost Rider 7-A AP that matches his 7-A durability. Future Graviton key will be High 6-B alongside present Daisy but she will be High 6-B with her powers only since Graviton absorbed Daisy without the amp serum and didn't know how to control her powers causing the 12.8 that eventually let to a reaction that blowed up the planet.

The average Kree should be 9-C, Captain Marvel 9-B, Korath and Drax 9-A, Vin-Tak, Hive, Ronan and Asgardians High 7-C.

Iron Ma
I also think Iron Man should scale to High 7-C, as he was able to knock back Loki on two occasions. This is furthermore supported by this 7-C feat someone found.

Captain America
And this is not the first time I brought up this. Cap has fought Loki, Ultron, Iron Man, Corvus Glaive, Spider-Man (who fought Cull Obsidian without the Iron Spider suit), not to mention briefly holding back Thanos. I think we cannot just handwave all this as PIS. "At most" or "possibly" will be appropriate. To shamelessly quote Assaltwaffle:

"Likely" means that the rating is most likely true, but cannot be 100% confirmed. "Possibly" means that the rating may be true, but it has significant counter evidence, such as it possibly being an outlier or the like.

I think possibly fits Cap's case here. Matching someone in physical strength is enough, you don't necessarily have to severely damage them.
 
Condolences, it happens to the best of us.
Next time when I'm making such a huge thread I should probably type a draft on Google Docs first :p
 
Captain America scaling to characters which you also want to be High 7-C is an absolute no. He's not meant to be that strong and his personal feats cap at Small Building level. The feats are outliers and not at all consistent with the rest of his scope.

Also disagree with 7-C Tony Stark. To start, the 200 Petawatt feat is from the comicbook adaptation of Iron Man 2 (So questionable canon) and it refers to his most powerful laser beans which rapidly consume his suit's energy. And it is not an attack he uses in other suits.
 
Ignoring the fact that he fought <inserts Iron Man rating> characters more times than he performed 9-B and 9-A feats? Handwaving it as being an outlier doesn't make much sense at all. Which is why "possibly/at most" would make sense in this case, due to the fact that it is an hypothetical statistic with significant counter evidence.

MCU comics are canon, though personally I don't mind much whether Iron Man is 8-A or High 7-C.
 
Yes, because none of those characters ever display those 8-A or High 7-C feats in those proper times they fought, and they often rely on scaling as well. Even Captain America's best feat in the whole series happens when he is fighting base Ultron and the attack actually harms the robot.

It's not a matter of handwaving. It's a matter of being reasonable with what we're shown.

The tie-in comics are canon, the comicbook adaptation of the movies contradict displayed events from it proper and are secondary at best.
 
Base Ultron is <inserts Iron Man rating>. Furthermore, I don't recall a villain Captain America fought on equal grounds that doesn't scale to Cap, instead having his own rating. We're consistently showed that Captain America is weaker, but not far weaker than other stronger heroes. FRIDAY literally said Iron Man couldn't match him in hand-to-hand combat.

I am not sure about that, as I don't read the comics. I'll wait until further input.

What do you think about the Kree scaling?
 
Iron Man's 7-C feat cannot be used to back up his proposed rating upgrade so that point is moot in either way, and Iron Man not being able to match Captain America in hand-to-hand combat is due to the later's significantly greater skill. Put Cap and Iron Man in a punching match and they're gonna lose. But literally Iron Man can comfortably one-shot Cap with any of his several lethal weapons technology.

I am fine with the Kree stuff as they're obviously not all equal.
 
Back to the skill argument. Skill matters little in a match between a 9-A and 8-A/High 7-C. Iron man would literally murder Cap with a single punch. A monkey that mastered all martial arts will still get one-shot by Tyrannosaurus rex.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
To start, the 200 Petawatt feat is from the comicbook adaptation of Iron Man 2 (So questionable canon)
Click to expand...
On this part, this canon comics make Malekith 3-A and have Thanos beating Hulk while using the power stone, and the latter was in an exact recreation of the events of in IW. They are as secondary in canon as they can get.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
Captain America scaling to characters which you also want to be High 7-C is an absolute no. He's not meant to be that strong and his personal feats cap at Small Building level. The feats are outliers and not at all consistent with the rest of his scope.

Also disagree with 7-C Tony Stark. To start, the 200 Petawatt feat is from the comicbook adaptation of Iron Man 2 (So questionable canon) and it refers to his most powerful laser beans which rapidly consume his suit's energy. 'And it is not an attack he uses in other suits.'
Click to expand...
attack potency does not necessarily mean the character has too attack in fight purposes. for example, thor creates a tier 6 storm which is an attack potency but never used as attack. and yes, he uses lasers in mark 7, 45, 50. re-watch the three avengers movies again.

further note, tie in comics are canon unless the movie severly contradicts it, which iron man 2 did not. we even allowed extended edition of dceu's batman vs superman: doj showings like the size of doomsday nuke to be used.

i dont see how this 7-c feat cannot be used when he also has 7-a and high 6-b key. to expand, i don't consider this as an outlier.
 
I think the 8-A feat needs to be looked at since it is reliant on Iron Man continously accelerating for the good part of one minute while our system relies on 1 sec of output to rate AP, you can see that rule applied to many calcs but ignored here for some reason.
 
I just noticed Blademan recalculated it in the comment's section.

The stated mass assumes it's made out of titatnium when aluminium seems far more reasonable. (after all they are probably going to want to cut down on the weight.)

Aluminium has a density of 2700kg/m^3 rather then Titaniums 4500kg/m^3

Also one thing that's important to note is that the parts of the rotor that are near the edges will be going faster the the parts in the middle, this reduces the kinetic energy.

The kinetic energy per mass of each part of the rotor is therfore pro-portional to the square of the distance that part of the rotot is from the center. And the integral of x^2 = 1/3*x^3.

This reduce the energy by a factor of 3.

60.24*2700*20=3261600kg.

3261600*762.6117306^2/2/3=316,145,067,836J=75.56tons. City block+
 
And I don't think we should divide by 50. Iron Man, after accelerating, was able to constantly push the blades at supersonic speeds. I am calculating the KE of that.

So City Block level+ Iron Man physically and Large Town level with weaponry. Makes sense, as Ultron was able to fight Iron Man but got completely one-shot by the missile.
 
I don't particularly care what tier IM goes to but comparing tie in comics to the extended cut of a movie makes no sense. The latter would be more accurately called the true movie as it was intended to be that way but was cut down for cinematic release. The former is basically a rehash of the movie but with contradictions to the movie most of the time as seen with IW where Thanos used the Power Stone against Hulk.

If the laser does get accpeted, it should be only with that one move (at least pre AoU) as nothing else Tony has comes close to it, especially since it uses up 90% of his suits power. AoU Tony might have weaponry that high but destroying 2nd Ultron is kinda shaky as Tony had used other weapons iirc and Ultron was already trash when he got missiled.
 
AguilaR101 said:
I think the 8-A feat needs to be looked at since it is reliant on Iron Man continously accelerating for the good part of one minute while our system relies on 1 sec of output to rate AP, you can see that rule applied to many calcs but ignored here for some reason.
Click to expand...
8-A with prep. As he doesn't die when he does it, wouldn't it scale to his durability?
 
Was Loki actually harmed by the repulsor? Knocking back means nothing when he wasn't braced for it and the same IM suit put Thor on his ass with the same attack.
 
Probably not but it puts a dent on attempts to scale it to Caps Durability given IMs lack of ability to build up his speed in such close quarters, he never gets the chance to actually reach 8-A levels of power.
 
That would require a bit of research which I unfortunately don't have time for atm. Let's deal with the Kree stuff first. Does anyone disagree?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Minos_the_Judge
(MCU) There is no explanation why Captain Carter is stronger than Captain America.
Replies
7
Views
1K
Minos_the_Judge
Minos_the_Judge
FentyBeauty
  • Locked
MCU General CRT ⁸
Replies
17
Views
2K
Antvasima
Antvasima
  • Locked
3-B MCU Thor (Onscreen + WoG Proofs)
Replies
3
Views
1K
Propellus
Propellus
Marvel_Champion_07
  • Locked
MCU Captain Marvel Downgrade (Wall level)
Replies
22
Views
2K
OneBleachHurricane
OneBleachHurricane
Lacku
  • Locked
[MCU] Possible High 6-A Pre & Post-Awakening Upgrade
Replies
33
Views
2K
Excellence616
Excellence616
Back
Top