MASSIVE Gravity Falls Upgrade

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Well hey, the first one is solid 3-A, so could the second but he may just mean as in the rip. The first scan isn't Low 2-C because that needs evidence of all time having been destroyed too...and because we explicitly know the past wasn't destroyed.

We don't see the past being destroyed because Bill didn't succeeded in destroying the universe. He was stopped before that could happen.

However, these statement, alongside Time Eater's statement of Bill being capable of destroying all of existence support Low 2-C rather than 3-A

 

[Eficiente]

We don't see the past being destroyed because Bill didn't succeeded in destroying the universe. He was stopped before that could happen.

Can you link the context of what was going on in only that feat?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Well hey, the first one is solid 3-A, so could the second but he may just mean as in the rip. The first scan isn't Low 2-C because that needs evidence of all time having been destroyed too...and because we explicitly know the past wasn't destroyed.

What's even the context of it? It collides with the plot of the show for Ford to know Bill's evil upon knowing him and for the future to be destroyed.

Regardless of that, this should make Bill 3-A in AP and durability, the stuff about "each universe/reality/dimension is its own timeline with different laws" and stuff making the feat actually Low 2-C and the rest I really don't think I would end up agreeing with, as a prediction, but I would need to go over all the stuff claimed for it.

So, can we for now settle for Universe level AP and Durability due to the scan above?

I'll send other scans for Low 2-C in some hours.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Can you link the context of what was going on in only that feat?

This was when Bill's rift came after he unleashed Weirdmaggedon

Scene is here. As said previously this is another thing that support Low 2-C, but isn't the sole reason.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Didn't he imply that he had infinite power, wouldn't that make him a high 3-A?

The way it's put makes it sound a lot like hyperbole

 

[Bernkastelll]

The way it's put makes it sound a lot like hyperbole

but Bill already have tier 3-A/Low 2-C statements, why would a ''infinite power'' by just a hyperbole

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

The way it's put makes it sound a lot like hyperbole

I just deleted my comment... you are fast, yeah so I wasn't sure (to discussion) and deleted it

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

but Bill already have tier 3-A/Low 2-C statements, why would a ''infinite power'' by just a hyperbole

Aren't we downgrading him to Unknown?

 

[Bernkastelll]

Aren't we downgrading him to Unknown?

which is being proved to be wrong on this and others threads

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

but yes i want to talk about it, I do not think that his infinite power is actually hyperbole because he became a multi-dimensional being and humiliated third dimensional beings, also has multiple universal scans.. ( I deleted my comment because I chose to watch the discussion pfff)

Aren't we downgrading him to Unknown?

No, if we can't prove that low 2-c he will probably be 3-A physical, but the other crt, he will with hax can be low 1-c

 

[StrymULTRA]

Ok, so I got back home so here are the scans which support Bill being Low 2-C:

1. As everyone and their mothers know, he one-shotted Time Baby, a being who was the one who maintained the flow of time of the timeline and can even consume time. Bill not only became the total ruler of space-time but also gained infinite power. While the last statement might be an hyperbole without context, it actually supports him not being just 3-A, due of him being immensely superior to a being who can control and consume time and has the total control over it. So why Bill Cipher can't destroy time, if Time Baby could even consume it? I mean, if Time Baby has 4D AP feat (Unknown due of it not affecting all of it, but still 4D), why Bill, a dude who one-shotted it, is stated to have infinite power, to have total control over the space-time and even to destroy the universe shouldn't be able to destroy space-time on an universal scale as well? There's enough context to make it Low 2-C.
2. Each timeline, other than being its own space-time with its own laws, has also 4D stuff in it, ergo destroying an universe would be a 4D feat rather than a 3D one.

Low 2-C should go, just 3-A would simply be ignoring all the context.

 

[Eficiente]

That's cringe.

• Eat time is just Time Manip, being a ruler and having infinite power doesn't matter. You don't know if Time Baby has "total control over" time (by our standards), at best he just has it as good as what Bill showed, we can also not even assume that and just say that it's as good as it showed to be and Bill didn't like having 2 Time Manipulators around with 1 opposing him.
• Laws can be pointless like those universes working by their own logic or having a few extra rules in logic, that's why Logic Manip links to Law Manip, once every some episodes of The Fairly OddParents! they would be making a Low 2-C feat if messing up logic was a feat of that level. 4D stuff doesn't mean anything w/o proof of it being infinite times more complex than 3D stuff. The infinite pit isn't infinite, it having 4D stuff is pure assumption by Soos, and even if it had and even if it was tier 2 stuff, destroying the world with it would still just be planet level for the same reasons that destroying a cup with a universe inside is still just destroying a cup and destroying Kirby isn't the same as destroying the infinite space he has inside. The other clearly is infinite as in it being in cycle forever like a charger connected to another charger, nor does it have proof of being in the same dimension as where the portal that leads to it is and nor would this things exist in all universes in the show.

As I asked before, could somebody show the context of Bill using Ford's body to go into the future and destroy the universe? Thanks.

 

[Antvasima]

Eficiente seems to make goo points above.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

eh can't we do at least 3-A, possibly low 2-c?

 

[Eficiente]

"At least 3-A" doesn't exist. And please focus. We can't do that because there are no reasons for it.

 

[Bernkastelll]

"At least 3-A" doesn't exist.

All tiers can have at least, no?

At least​

Should be used to denote the lower cap of a character, if the exact value is indeterminate.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

There is such a panel for Time Baby, I don't know if it will work.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Eat time is just Time Manip, being a ruler and having infinite power doesn't matter. You don't know if Time Baby has "total control over" time (by our standards), at best he just has it as good as what Bill showed, we can also not even assume that and just say that it's as good as it showed to be and Bill didn't like having 2 Time Manipulators around with 1 opposing him.

And as always, you didn't quite understand what I said before. I just mean that since Bill is immensely superior to a being who can even devour time, is stated to have infinite power, can manipulate space-time at will and is able to destroy an universe, why shouldn't it be able to destroy an universe on a space-time scale?

 

[ZeedKZ]

Bill was also used to have a High 3-A rating due to Mabeland having infinite energy.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

Bill was also used to have a High 3-A rating due to Mabeland having infinite energy.

whoa really? Can you throw the scan please, this is very useful information

 

[StrymULTRA]

If Low 2-C can't be directly a thing, "High 3-A, possibly Low 2-C" should be a thing at very least tbh, "At least" would precede the rating if creating Mableland was casual.

 

[Antvasima]

And as always, you didn't quite understand what I said before. I just mean that since Bill is immensely superior to a being who can even devour time, is stated to have infinite power, can manipulate space-time at will and is able to destroy an universe, why shouldn't it be able to destroy an universe on a space-time scale?

Please elaborate regarding Time Baby being able to destroy the universe and having infinite power.

 

[StrymULTRA]

Please elaborate regarding Time Baby being able to destroy the universe and having infinite power.

It's about Bill, not Time Baby, the scans about these claims were about him, Time Baby is just more evidence of Bill being these 2.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I thought that you said that he was superior to a being with all of these abilities.

 

[Eficiente]

And as always, you didn't quite understand what I said before. I just mean that since Bill is immensely superior to a being who can even devour time, is stated to have infinite power, can manipulate space-time at will and is able to destroy an universe, why shouldn't it be able to destroy an universe on a space-time scale?

Yes I did. Devour time is Time Manip, being above someone who has that power doesn't mean anything tier wise. Infinite power is hyperbole, manipulate space-time gives abilities over them, and destroy the universe is 3-A, you are dogmatically claiming this stuff to mean something it doesn't for no reason. They're not things that connect in the way you believe, a bunch of info added up isn't just going to magically mean Low 2-C. You have no reason to ask why it shouldn't be Low 2-C because there is no reason as to why it should be Low 2-C.

 

[Antvasima]

If somebody writes an easy to understand explanation of the arguments and evidence here, I can call more staff to help us out.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Spatial dimensions being superior to one another is a thing is pretty much every story that deals with them, you need to prove that these dimensions are infinitely superior to below dimensions.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Spatial dimensions being superior to one another is a thing is pretty much every story that deals with them, you need to prove that these dimensions are infinitely superior to below dimensions.

Gravity Falls understand how dimensionality works, they explained very well the 2nd dimension, why would we assume that they dont know how to explain the 4th dimension?

 

[DaReaperMan]

Gravity Falls understand how dimensionality works, they explained very well the 2nd dimension, why would we assume that they dont know how to explain the 4th dimension?

From what I have read Stanford describes spatial dimensions as being only superior to one another, that does not prove infinitely superior.

 

[Delta333]

Gravity Falls understand how dimensionality works, they explained very well the 2nd dimension, why would we assume that they dont know how to explain the 4th dimension?

You need to prove the difference between 2-D and 3-D extend across all higher dimensions,saying 2-D inferior to 3-D won’t help much cus that’s how dimension work in all verses by default

 

[StrymULTRA]

Okay. I thought that you said that he was superior to a being with all of these abilities.

My argument is basically this:

• Time Baby can manipulate a timeline and can devour time
• Bill Cipher one-shotted him and gained a total control over space-time
• Bill is stated to be able to destroy an universe

So he can destroy time.

Yes I did. Devour time is Time Manip

is not that simple, as it actually destroyed time, only that’s not on an universal scale.

Also Infinite Power is actually backed from feats in this case

 

[Bernkastelll]

From what I have read Stanford describes spatial dimensions as being only superior to one another, that does not prove infinitely superior.

gravity falls understand dimensionality 0:52

You need to prove the difference between 2-D and 3-D extend across all higher dimensions,saying 2-D inferior to 3-D won’t help much cus that’s how dimension work in all verses by default

it is not only described as ''inferior'', check it 0:52

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

Spatial dimensions being superior to one another is a thing is pretty much every story that deals with them, you need to prove that these dimensions are infinitely superior to below dimensions.

From what I have read Stanford describes spatial dimensions as being only superior to one another, that does not prove infinitely superior.

Gravity Falls understand how dimensionality works, they explained very well the 2nd dimension, why would we assume that they dont know how to explain the 4th dimension?

I'm sorry but exactly why we were discussing this

 

[Antvasima]

Strym:

Thank you for the explanation.

I think that those are good points that likely validate "At least 3-A, likely Low 2-C", but I may be wrong.

 

[Bernkastelll]

I'm sorry but exactly why we were discussing this

because they are arguing that the 4-D statement is invalid

 

[Delta333]

gravity falls understand dimensionality 0:52

it is not only described as ''inferior'', check it 0:52

What I mean is,2-D being inferior or whatever like that to 3-D doesn’t mean the same thing will apply for others higher dimensions

 

[Eficiente]

• Time Baby can manipulate a timeline and can devour time
• Bill Cipher one-shotted him and gained a total control over space-time
• Bill is stated to be able to destroy an universe

Evidence that Time Baby can manipulate a timeline? Devour time is just Time Manip, also wasn't he eating time just him drinking time from a drink with time there as a liquid?

That's wanked. Killing Time Baby just gave Bill some better control over time. You are the one saying that it's "total control over" time, and for no reason "total control over" space too, you are the one setting up the standard for them as having total control over this things when the series only shows Bill having some time and space-based abilities.

His ability to destroy a universe doesn't get magically recontextualized by the fact that he has Time Manip and Space Manip.

is not that simple, as it actually destroyed time, only that’s not on an universal scale.

You are the one giving it meaning to how it "it actually destroyed time" "not on an universal scale", that sh*t given anyone it's Time Manip.

Also Infinite Power is actually backed from feats in this case

You're also the one writing infinite power as Infinite Power. If it was backed up then I would imagine that would have been shown already.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

Let me add another proof of 3-A or low 2-C. As you know Stan and Ford are disguising here and Ford is hinting that Bill will destroy the universe.
I threw it away to keep the evidence intact, please don't be angry

 

[Antvasima]

Eficiente made some good counterpoints.

 

[Eficiente]

So. For the third time, could somebody please link the pages around the feat of Bill possessing Ford, going to the future, and destroying the universe? And also source which book that is?

I already agreed to 3-A AP and Durability via it, we just need to add that and how Bill can only possess Ford while he sleeps and that does it.