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MASHLE: Magic and Muscles Discussion Thread

Phsccarvalho said:
She is. We have a direct statement in chap 65.

And in chapter 103 we have both Ryoh and Meliadoul herself saying that she "was" stronger, that is in the past. It has never been stated that she is currently stronger.

And it's not even like it creates a scoop. Meliadoul's literal only feat is using a staff that stores and returns magic, which has nothing to do with her magic power.
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The main problem is that Meliadoul has shown to create knights that are invincible to Mash's perspective through his cellular informations

This happened after Mash defeated Domina, someone who is comparable if not stronger than Wahlberg

And after Mash defeated all the 100 knights, Meliadoul was still the real challenge

Mashle scaling is just dumb as ****
 
To be fair that whole statement by Wahlberg about the brothers being equal or stronger could refer to his current state. And Meliadoul was only stronger than Wahlberg in her prime, while Wahlberg has no prime as he continuously got more powerful as he aged.
 
While Mashle scaling has always been dumb, it really just got worse by the final arc.

Like while it utilized common battle shounen tropes in a comedic way, at some point it totally forgot how to do that so we just got common battle shounen tropes without the comedy part.

Mashle was also intended to be shorter than it is, so a lot of characters are offscreened or didn't appear for no apparent reason.

I still enjoyed the final arc, mind you, but its writing evidently declined especially in this arc.

Ochoa is also just Puck but is like a trillion times more annoying.
 
We could also interpret it as Wahlberg's magic being of greater scope and esoteric whereas Meliadoul is limited, and the constructs she created appeared to be physical and probably can't resist Wahlberg's magic.
 
LIFE_OF_KING said:
The main problem is that Meliadoul has shown to create knights that are invincible to Mash's perspective through his cellular informations

This happened after Mash defeated Domina, someone who is comparable if not stronger than Wahlberg

And after Mash defeated all the 100 knights, Meliadoul was still the real challenge

Mashle scaling is just dumb as ****
Click to expand...
Sincerely, Whalberg said that each of the brothers was equal or superior. It wasn't quite an assertion that everyone is stronger.

Aside from that, there's kind of more statements saying he's superior to Meliadoul.
 
Also, this isn't really much of a complaint, but I'm just astounded with how incredibly stupid Innocent Zero is.

I guess that's the price of having too many powers. He basically doesn't know how to use them.

The 6 brothers should have sacrificed their brains instead of their hearts.
 
Metalballrun said:
Also, this isn't really much of a complaint, but I'm just astounded with how incredibly stupid Innocent Zero is.

I guess that's the price of having too many powers. He basically doesn't know how to use them.

The 6 brothers should have sacrificed their brains instead of their hearts.
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I mean he's not really that dumb, he knows how to kill someone dangerous right away AND double tap the body.

It would make sense if IZ had some innate fear of Spaces due to losing against Wahlberg when he was younger.....
 
Blud, the only notable person Innocent Zero has actually killed was Mash and that was after Mash came close to tenderizing his face with his fists.
Most of his fights was pretty much unleashing big blasts instead of insta-kill magic spells, and letting characters far weaker than him to stall for time when he has the power and the magical arsenal to completely one-shot and obliterate them, and he hasn't really given any justification as of why he's jobbing or sparing them except that he's arrogant and dumb as bricks.

IZ is basically written to be the classic monologuing antagonists portrayed to the extreme.
 
Metalballrun said:
Blud, the only notable person Innocent Zero has actually killed was Mash and that was after Mash came close to tenderizing his face with his fists.
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Well that was more of a power display, but it's still impressive he tried going for the double tap to make sure things were well. The lnly reason he was stopped was due to the timely arrival of Domina.
Metalballrun said:
Most of his fights was pretty much unleashing big blasts instead of insta-kill magic spells, and letting characters far weaker than him to stall for time when he has the power and the magical arsenal to completely one-shot and obliterate them, and he hasn't really given any justification as of why he's jobbing or sparing them except that he's arrogant and dumb as bricks.
Click to expand...
At this point I'm not sure if the Dark Magic effects have been soft nerfed (JoJo moment) or if he's simply using these big blasts due to dark magic being amped by the eclipse. And to be fair, most of those characters were slippery and had the tactics to avoid and attack IZ at the right time.
Metalballrun said:
IZ is basically written to be the classic monologuing antagonists portrayed to the extreme.
Click to expand...
Yeah, he's fun
 
Even Domina was a complete fodder to him.
What stalled him was because he's arrogant and somehow constantly gets surprised by things and gets tagged by characters that should be statues to him.
Most characters took multiple attacks from IZ. He really looked like he wasn't trying.

IZ was honestly disappointing for me. It was only fun when Mash was beating him, and that's more on Mash.

The magnet guy fight dragged but it was better than the IZ fights.
 
AnAverageUsername said:
At this point I'm not sure if the Dark Magic effects have been soft nerfed (JoJo moment) or if he's simply using these big blasts due to dark magic being amped by the eclipse. And to be fair, most of those characters were slippery and had the tactics to avoid and attack IZ at the right time.
Click to expand...
I saw some kanji and the name of Adam's personal magic and IZ's ki blasts, it has the same name as Darkness. I don't know why IZ spells always say Darkness while Adam says Dark, despite his spell being called Darkness.

Darkness was heavily nerfed in the narrative, everyone resists it now (to be overreacting). But seriously, if Margarette resists, I think everyone there in the fight resists.
 
Metalballrun said:
Even Domina was a complete fodder to him.
What stalled him was because he's arrogant and somehow constantly gets surprised by things and gets tagged by characters that should be statues to him.
Most characters took multiple attacks from IZ. He really looked like he wasn't trying.
Click to expand...
Fair enough. I guess with all that power you think you don't have to try your best.
Metalballrun said:
IZ was honestly disappointing for me. It was only fun when Mash was beating him, and that's more on Mash.

The magnet guy fight dragged but it was better than the IZ fights.
Click to expand...
I actually like this final fight, it embodies Mashle's themes.
 
Phsccarvalho said:
I saw some kanji and the name of Adam's personal magic and IZ's ki blasts, it has the same name as Darkness. I don't know why IZ spells always say Darkness while Adam says Dark, despite his spell being called Darkness.

Darkness was heavily nerfed in the narrative, everyone resists it now (to be overreacting). But seriously, if Margarette resists, I think everyone there in the fight resists.
Click to expand...
Yeah but if Dark Magic was originally BFR existence erasure, then why does it leave behind steam when it hits something. What, did those mountains get atomized now? Would honestly be a great calculation....
 
Acausality (Type 1) and possible Probability Manipulation (Mash showed capable of knowing that he went back in time. Later on, he proved to be unstoppable no matter Zero's strategy, even with him starting the fight in his perfect form or having the help of Mash's brothers, plus dozens of other failed attempts off screen; He's simply "invincible". Innocent Zero also says that it's an endless cycle, where no matter how many times he tries, he will always get beaten up, as well as Innocent Zero questioning whether the current time stream/timeline is in fact the best of all and yet he's still defeated)
Click to expand...
Is that fine?
 
Last edited:
Acausality type 1 is fine, since you can have it even for just keeping your memories. Not sure about probability manip tho, but considering how many times IZ tried it might be okay.
 
  • Innocent Zero uses Times Rewound multiple times on different points in time.
  • Mash defeats him in all instances.
  • Mash thus retains his Post-Death strength despite the Time Rewind, and he also has slight awareness of the time rewind.
  • IZ is an idiot.
 
I liked Mash interrupting the villain's sad flashback. Pretty funny. If Mash had stayed more comedic, even in that final part, I think it would have been much better.

It would be very interesting if part of the final battle was a joke more extrapolated from the stereotype of the Final Fight against the big villain.
 
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