- 9,799
- 6,459
I mean it's not baseline, I'm just not bothered to say the numbers with it. It'd still be like, above 78.6 exatons.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
MASHLE: Magic and Muscles Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Ruminas_Valentine
- Start date
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 14,658
- 10,488
Nah I'm asking why Base Walhberg is 5-C
- 13,962
- 6,025
- 9,799
- 6,459
Well, base Innocent Zero could withstand attacks from Weakness Mode Mash, who would be 5-C for taking down Doom at his full power.
Base Innocent Zero, seeing Wahlberg use his summons, ended up casting his own. IZ with Chronos would be 10x more powerful, putting him at 786 exatons, or low 5-B.
Since IZ casted his Summons to had a leas over Wahlberg, this would mean that both would be in a similar league. So then we divide that low 5-B statistic by 10, getting back to 5-C for Wahlberg.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 14,658
- 10,488
I'm not gonna say I'm 100% correct because English isn't my first language. But
Isn't this scan is misunderstood? This is not saying Raynes summon is on thirds level instead is stating these 5 has third? Rayne and Kaido are similar cases like Orter who never showcased their thirds?
Last edited:
- 9,799
- 6,459
Nah, nothing in the story ever suggests that Rayne or Kaldo have Thirds. They were never mentioned among the Thirds users in chapter 95, unlike Orter.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 14,658
- 10,488
The 95th chapter does not mention Renatus, yet we still got his thirds. Orter has a statement but no thirds.
Anyway, that answer seemed like this:
Ryoh acquired the thirds first because he is kinda the oldest among the current DV, then Renatus, then Orter, then Kaldo, then somewhat new Visionary Rayne. (Ignore Lance for now.)
It's not about the series stating it. That answer is clearly talking about those five having thirds. Unless someone split the sentence and explains the answer the author gave, proving he was talking about only summons for Kaldo and Rayne.
- 9,799
- 6,459
That doesn't disprove or counter anything. We see him cast Thirds, and then he's grouped with Ryoh and Orter. We never have any metion of Kaldo or Rayne having a Thirds.
It's not, because we know for a fact that Kaldo and Rayne have no Thirds. Because we never have any mention or showing of the two having it. With Orter at least we have a mentioning, Kaldo and Rayne do not get that luxury. Maybe that QnA section was a bit odd for the person to translate, so perhaps you'd like to get it checked out?
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 14,658
- 10,488
I would call it as a group. We do know by feats Orter > Renatus. Author specifically giving the order there. He also states there are only few has thirds then mentioned 3 of the big guys then says followed by you know what this means right?
Orter was mentioned in the same Q & A while Manga only gives Silhouette for Orter and Royh not including Renatus.
This is just either Author had plans for Orter , Rayne and Kaldo thirds but forgot. This gys forgets too many things. Also this is highly possible he wanted to convey that and states this in Fanbook.
I don't think meaning would change anything but I will check the raws for once.
- 9,799
- 6,459
And thaaaat means nothing, because we are shown that he has a Thirds within the main story itself
For Orter, that makes sense, though his moment to shine was likely overshadowed by Ryoh's. Rayne and Kaldo though? If Komoto had plans he would have foreshadowed them in the first place like Orter, and we got none of that.
It's probably best to check the raws
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 14,658
- 10,488
So you agree grammatically Author is saying Rayne and Kaldo has thirds
Dot activated his thirds I don't see prodigy like Rayne having one. Kaldo should be skilled enough to be an DV. So it's not unusual.
Chatgpt translation
Yeah Obviously this is talking about Kaldo and Rayne having thirds. Ryoh, Renatus and Orter having top ones either hax or power whatever it may be
You can ask someone who knows Japanese to translate this to just confirm it but I don't think it will change much.
- 4,502
- 2,844
If you want, send me the raw along with the questions you want.
Then I send it to the translator who helps me.
Ask what context you want to know why he didn't read Mashle.
Then I send it to the translator who helps me.
Ask what context you want to know why he didn't read Mashle.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 14,658
- 10,488
Just want to know if the answer is saying Rayne and Kaldo also has Thirds
- 9,799
- 6,459
No? Where did I say that? I said we are SHOWN that Renatus has a Thirds, so it makes sense he was included with Ryoh and Orter
Dot was only able to unlock his Thirds via absolute rage with his Ira Kruez, that's a whole other can of worms that separates him from other Wizards.
I still believe the implication here is that it's just a general grouping of who has Thirds, and who's close to it. With Ryoh, Orter, and Renatus being at the top and having access to Thirds, and Rayne + Kaldo being middle of the pack with power close to it but just not there yet.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 14,658
- 10,488
You know all of your words are saying, you just don't want to believe Kaldo and Rayne having thirds? Personal preference I guess?
Contextually this is more fitting for the statement than just believing Author was splitting it into 2 different power sets.
Also where do you see author mentioning Summons in the answer? That's still falls under your assumption nothing else.
- 9,799
- 6,459
I don't believe the two have Thirds because it doesn't make narrative sense. It's not a personal preference when everything else in the main story makes it impossible for Rayne and Kaldo to have a Thirds. Wahlberg only states that Rayne is the youngest in Easton history to unlock a Summons, not that he's the youngest in history to unlock both a Summons AND a Thirds. If the anime wanted to change this and use info from the fanbook to hint at Rayne having a Thirds, it would have since it gave Orter the capability to turn into sand (which was stated in the fanbook), yet it didn't at all. Not only this, but in the final arc we are given no dialog or hint that Rayne unlocked the capability to cast a Thirds, nothing at all.
Kaldo... I don't know about him he's just too vague.
Again, I don't think so. I'm going to paste the GTP translation from earlier here, and I'm going to try and break it down.
Thirds) Sage is rarely seen in those who can use it, with Light, Undead, and Sand being the top ones, followed by Fire and Rain-kun!
"Thirds is rarely seen in those who can use it". It in this case I'm assuming refers to Summoning.
Ryoh, Renatus, and Orter being referenced as the top ones give the implication that they are the rarities, while Kaldo and Rain being mentioned to follow after them implies that they're below the three, but have power close to it. I know I sound like a broken record, but I'm fully confident this is how it's supposed to be.
- 9,799
- 6,459
ALSO, BIG THING, if Rayne COULD use his Thirds, then why the hell did he not use it against Delisaster who only showed the capability to Summon??? What, was he purposefully holding back for some reason?
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 14,658
- 10,488
Walhberg didn't stated summons instead he was talking about lines. Author didn't even states Rayne unlocked thirds after final arc or anything like that he just mentioned followed by other he is still there
You broke at a different place. See what it states those 3 are top and these 2 are followed after them. Also instead of saying Kaldo author uses fire then Rayne.
Same as Orter why didn't he used his summon or thirds against Doom despite being in pinch? Orter was holding back for some reason?
You know this falls under death of an author argument.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 14,658
- 10,488
Actually never mind it's not like we will give a rating for that. I was just thinking about that answer being a different. That's all.
- 4,502
- 2,844
The text makes it seem like those mentioned can use thrids.
There are more DVs and they were not mentioned, like those fodder defeated by the brothers.
So in my view, the author is talking about the select group of people within the DVs who have third parties, which in this case are those mentioned.
Why didn't they use it?
It can be attributed to many things, considering that the author forgets simple things (drawing lines) to big things (IZ spaces and Black Partisan) within the story (these things were only talked about after the story ended and not within it)
There is also simply the issue of convenience. I think this isn't anyone's first fiction to know that characters don't always use the powers that would give them victory or an advantage because of the plot.
I would have mentioned IZ again for this, saying that if he had kept the temporal shield Mash wouldn't have been able to use that final blow, but in the end Mash basically got plot armor with "I win because I do"
My colleague has not yet responded to the translation request.
There are more DVs and they were not mentioned, like those fodder defeated by the brothers.
So in my view, the author is talking about the select group of people within the DVs who have third parties, which in this case are those mentioned.
Why didn't they use it?
It can be attributed to many things, considering that the author forgets simple things (drawing lines) to big things (IZ spaces and Black Partisan) within the story (these things were only talked about after the story ended and not within it)
There is also simply the issue of convenience. I think this isn't anyone's first fiction to know that characters don't always use the powers that would give them victory or an advantage because of the plot.
I would have mentioned IZ again for this, saying that if he had kept the temporal shield Mash wouldn't have been able to use that final blow, but in the end Mash basically got plot armor with "I win because I do"
My colleague has not yet responded to the translation request.
- 9,799
- 6,459
Summons and third lines always go hand in hand (unless you're built different like Dot, casting a Thirds without a Summons)
??? I didn't say anything about after the final arc, I'm referring to during the final arc
???
And?
I don't know how that's important
Because he already had his time to shine against Famin, story beats here
okay, let me make it clear. Rayne vs Delisaster showed us that Rayne's limit was his summons. He was close to dying so many times, having his body torn to shreds, and the only thing he could do was rely on his Summons. This right away disproves any notion that Rayne has the capability to cast any Thirds attack. The only thing that's making this confusion, is your own interpretation trying to get Rayne a Thirds, which just isnt the case.
- 4,502
- 2,844
Vulcanus
Vulcanus is a Summon for Explomb. It is used by Dot Barrett. When the Caster uses this spell, their wand transforms into dual 'gun-gauntlets', each in the shape of a cross. It is also possible for the Caster to only transform their wand into a single 'gun-gauntlet'. The name and epithet was...
Author forgetting to mention that it was an invocation in the work? I wouldn't be surprised.
Last edited:
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 14,658
- 10,488
He still only uses normal wand against Doom not with Thirds. Still doom part is technically death of an author
May be death of an author
My interpretation is about both Ryane & Kaldo having Third not just Ryane.
- 9,799
- 6,459
Is it really a summons though? Dot himself only refers to it as Explomb Thirds with the basic guns, so it's a bit tricky in that regard.Vulcanus
Vulcanus is a Summon for Explomb. It is used by Dot Barrett. When the Caster uses this spell, their wand transforms into dual 'gun-gauntlets', each in the shape of a cross. It is also possible for the Caster to only transform their wand into a single 'gun-gauntlet'. The name and epithet was...mashle.fandom.com
Author forgetting to mention that it was an invocation in the work? I wouldn't be surprised.
Maybe. That part genuinely doesn't make sense unless Orter consumed too much power against Famin, this being tired. But he was way too casual about it. Maybe the reason Orter didn't use his Summons or Thirds against Doom was because he was already being amplified.... save us, Mashle Anime.
But it's clear that neither have the capability to cast a Thirds, which is why they're grouped under Ryoh, Renatus, and Orter. The top 3 are able to cast it, and the middle 2 are close to that power but can't cast it. The bottom 3 Visionaries are the weakest but can most likely use Summons.
- 4,502
- 2,844
Yes, it was revealed in the fanbook.
- 9,799
- 6,459
From what I know it was only the God name, right?
- 4,502
- 2,844
Considering that Thrids has only been shown to be made with invocation, and the name of his invocation has been revealed, it seems to me that it is his invocation.
- 9,799
- 6,459
Yeah bit what I'm trying to say here is that, we never see Dot specifically use a Summons. We can't say they're the guns, since those appear when Dot casts his Thirds. And we always get a character casting their summons right before their Thirds.... unless it's Orter who almost always chants off panel
- 9,799
- 6,459
@Arkenis Yo Arkenis, I added a whole lotta stat info onto the sandbox for Doom. Do we still need image scans? Also, we need more images (which I can make if I find clear enough pages), and two of the references need fixing. Ither than that, it seems we are close to completion until the Wizard page is made.
- 13,962
- 6,025
Yeah do. If you can get the colored 100% render too
- 9,799
- 6,459
So feat scans and image renders, got it
- 4,502
- 2,844
Since the sandbox received a vote, we will stop changing it.
Someone call DDM/Emirp/KingTempest/Maverick_Zero_X on the message board
Someone call DDM/Emirp/KingTempest/Maverick_Zero_X on the message board
- 4,502
- 2,844
Dude, if the physiology sandbox is accepted, when you apply, can you apply that too if you can?
I kind of forgot to apply this, so when you apply the physiology, since you will have to remove a lot of things, remove this too if you can.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 14,658
- 10,488
It's not in the sandbox so don't worry
- 4,502
- 2,844
It is not to be placed in the sandbox.
It's just that soul hax is in the profiles.
So when you remove the redundant skills, remove the soul ones as well according to my crt.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 14,658
- 10,488
Oh ok
- 4,502
- 2,844
If you have any doubts about what to remove, ask me.
But it's basically NPI/Soul hax derived from the soul.
For example.
One of Mash's resistances:
You would cut to that:
--------------------------
Another example is Cell War who has this ability.
That it would be cut that way. He would still keep the NPI because of the sound thing but not the soul thing.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 14,658
- 10,488
NPI should have been added to the Common abilities page. Why last one is not added?
EldemadeDityjon/Sandbox4
vsbattles.fandom.com
- 4,502
- 2,844
Leave that for later, we have already received a vote, if you put it in you will have to call Planck again.
I don't think you need to mention that it is double and triple line, just triple.Btw I updated Rayne profile. His abilities, IQ and weakness needs to be worked. Other than all things are fixed..EldemadeDityjon/Sandbox4
No triple liner has their third line visible before invoking, with the exception of Abel who is artificial.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 14,658
- 10,488
Rayne Base is double liner but he uses triple line as fight goes on. So I put it that way.
