Masadaverse Discussion Thread 23

[Dysmity]

@Monarch

That really doesn't disapprove my point. That only means someone who lacks history can bypasss this via stagnation of their own existence which is something i acknowledged (The flow of time not moving is what made this move particularly useless as it is entirely frozen which nulled the whole point of "most meager amount of time passes will give away a new history") This isn't something all characters would be affected by if this is what you're thinking

This is kinda going in circles so i will let the others decide

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

What is your point? That Machina punching things gives them history?

Machina cannot bypass something having no history by punching it. If something has no history, Machina punching it will not give it history.

 

[Infera28]

novel multiple times mentioned Machina is capable of bypassing any defense too. Reinhard resists something that bypasses his resistance?

 

[PsychoWarper]

Resistence to Resistence Negation when ovo.

 

[EvilMegaCookie]

Machina's fists doesn't create a new history when he punches them. It NEEDS the target to have a history, regardless of how small, in order to be able to deliver its instant death effect.

If you don't have a history (time is at zero) and it doesn't move past the then it doesn't matter how many times he punches you since you won't die.

And Machina is very much capable of killing Reinhard. It is just that he basically has to die like a million times before he even gets a punch in.

 

[PsychoWarper]

Reinhard also just comes back due to Mid-Godly or Type 8

 

[Warren_Valion]

Your picture didn't load.

But again, the Divine Vessel is Trifa in Reinhard's body, not Reinhard himself. It's a very specific position that Trifa has.

So ways to kill the Divine Vessel aren't nessecarily ways to kill the Beast. They are two different people with two different souls.

You know souls? The only thing that matters to these characters. The physcial body is nothing but a shell. The soul is what magically empowers everything for them, from their strengths to their defenses.


Also, proof that the gap in the armor was talking about an "existing flaw", instead of the gap in which Trifa's defenses are negated for the spear? And what "existing flaw"?


And oh my god, really? That's why I couldn't post?

 

[Warren_Valion]

Doesn't it explictly say that, "the most meagre amount of time that passed after the impact would give me a story, making the following blow fatal"?

And didn't Ren acted terrified of getting punched again?

The smallest amount of time passing after Machina punched Ren, a story was created of "Ren was punched" and because of that, the next following blow was going to erase Ren by erasing this story.

We even had a CRT on this a long time ago trying to give Machina 1-A EE which was denied due to it being an outlier and going against the "absoluteness" of the Hadou Gods, established mainly in KKK.


I don't see what is your point. Arguing that Machina did not "create the story, time did" is really pedantic, because the story was created based off of Machina's action of punching something without a story.

If Machina did nothing, or didn't deliver the "impact", then Ren wouldn't have gotten a story for Machina to erase after ""the most meagre amount of time that passed after the impact".

Whether it is something directly responsible by Machina's action, or whether it is indirectly responsible by Machina's action giving the passage of time no matter how short are somewhat irrelevant, I'd say.

 

[Dysmity]

Just note that while it should have erased Re, it didn't because the passage of time was frozen hence why the punch didn't give Ren a history.

In short, if Ren didn't have some kind of time stoping ability, it's very obvious that he would have gotten erased.

Not arguing that Machina is capable of erasing Hadou Gods/Gudou (I don't think he can personally) but moreso arguing he's capable of dealing of anything that lacks history as long as they don't have some time manip ability or some way to deal with the passage of time like Ren did to Machina

 

[Matteste]

Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn't it mentioned multiple times that Machina is the only one who is a direct threat to Reinhard, something which is also the reason as to why he is seated opposite of him.

The impression I get from his lines about not being able to beat Reinhard seems to simply be that Rein is just that much stronger than him. Sure, he could one hit kill him, if he could hit him in the first place that is. And that's not even mentioned the rest of his arsenal.

 

[Infera28]

anyone can explain what happened in this scene? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bonbDK50Y8A&t=1h7m58s

timeframe = 1:07:58 till 1:24:51

basically weirdest dies irae scene ever. seems like Atziluth Ren travelled into the past and attacked Human Reinhard then somehow Human Reinhard became Hadou God and survived?!

 

[PsychoWarper]

I mean technically Human Rein still had his immortality based off Merc so he would have survived.

 

[Dziga]

I had forgotten about that scene. From what I took from that scene, that is more like some type of mental delusion from Reinhard, but I only read the first ending of Rea's route once a long time ago so I can't explain it.

 

[Arianrhod_The_Sept-Terrion_Eternal]

anyone can explain what happened in this scene? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bonbDK50Y8A&t=1h7m58s
timeframe = 1:07:58 till 1:24:51

basically weirdest dies irae scene ever. seems like Atziluth Ren travelled into the past and attacked Human Reinhard then somehow Human Reinhard became Hadou God and survived?!

Through Isaak's influence, both Ren and Rea were sent into Beast's memory which resulted in Reinhard realizing his true relationship to Mercurius.

 

[Embracetophats]

And, no offense, but I take Machina's word on his own abilities over your skepticism.

I know this wasn't talking to me but would you take Mercurius's / the narrator's word on what can damage the vessel?
I believe it is Kei's route in which four things capable of damaging Reinhard are listed, a legion's worth of firepower, Reinhard himself, and Machina's fists being among them

Machina wont


But he can

 

[Warren_Valion]

Fine, I give up - the images are proof enough and are refering to Reinhard, and not the Divine Vessel.

Not that it really matters if Reinhard has Resistence to EE, since Reinhard's immortality kinda negates the effectiveness of being erased in the first place.

 

[Infera28]

Reinhard probably can have resistance to EE cuz this





but i'm not sure

 

[Embracetophats]

Isnt that the scene where Reinhard allucinates his former life? Ren stabbed him, not Machina.


I swear, why do you people insist each and every time on taking random out of context single lines to manufacure "facts" into existence?

 

[EvilMegaCookie]

Because getting more and more power is all that matters apparently.

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

this is mostly an indexing wiki. while the validity of something needs to be checked on any given case, giving a character or a series as a whole more power as to make them more appropriate is fundamentally the wiki's purpose

you saying that these characters "getting more powers" and/or stuff relating to powerlevel in general as if they're an inherently bad thing is in itself weird. why are you even here if you're going to react to it that way? it's also kind of ironic considering you're not that unfamiliar with a battleboarding forum/site yourself

 

[PsychoWarper]

This site like several others is purposed around fictional character fighting so the power of a character is in fact an important aspect, also people look through lines of text to see if they cant find anything that may be considered an ability or power, if they find something they think may be a power then they post it so others can look it over to see if its legit, its not like they are making a full on profile CRT over a few completely OOC words.

 

[TonySansNom]

SSJ3 Reinhard, when?

 

[Infera28]

Isnt that the scene where Reinhard allucinates his former life? Ren stabbed him, not Machina.


I swear, why do you people insist each and every time on taking random out of context single lines to manufacure "facts" into existence?

scan said "he (Ren Fujii) opened a hole in Reinhard's existence"

then next scan said "condemned him to death, as if repulsed by his very existence"

then Reinhard survived. that is why i 'asked' if that is EE resistance or not. i never said that is a fact or confirmed

 

[Gun_Slave_Unit]

quite literally 3 post above your own someone gave a context of said scene. it happened inside someone's memory so it's more of a mental landscape thing. assuming the statement holds true, it would only be that way under that particular context only

 

[Ricky365]

How exactly does Marie become the throne god in her route? Its like Merc is the throne god, Rein and Ren emanate, Ren kill Rein, Marie refuses to hug Merc, and suddenly Marie is throne god and Merc is some wandering singularity, like what?

 

[Dziga]

Marie's law allows multiple gods to coexist cuss power friendship and shiz

 

[IrrelevantTurtle]

Marie refuses to hug Merc and that was something unknown to him (probably because they were in the Singularity) -> Happy Merc leaves the chair

 

[Warren_Valion]

Nothing here is really indicitve of EE, tbh.

And Ren's scythe has Marie's Death Curse, not EE.

Not to mention, this was a werid dream halluxtion thingy - I wouldn't take anything from it as a legit feat.

 

[TonySansNom]

Marie refuses to hug Merc and that was something unknown to him (probably because they were in the Singularity) -> Happy Merc leaves the chair

Quite the contrary I am pretty sure she never did it outside of Rea's route and the hug is the unknown. If she did, it would have stopped the whole thing, he would have died, and she would have "inherited" the position. There is no reason to acta est fabula if Merc actually gets 100% of what he wants. And even then, she would resurrect him later anyway.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong?

 

[Ricky365]

Hadou Gods can just abdicate their Throne whenever they want?? O.O

 

[Ricky365]

Also what does Rindou think of Rein's philosophy? It seems like Longinus lets a shadow of Rein tell Rindou "break it if you love it" ?

 

[Embracetophats]

Because getting more and more power is all that matters apparently.

Is that an admission of guilt?

 

[Embracetophats]

Hadou Gods can just abdicate their Throne whenever they want?? O.O

Yes


Most have


Muzan just gave his to Satanael

Satanel gave his to Merc

Merc gave his to Marie


Mithra didnt but seems happy for Muzan having taken it from her

 

[PsychoWarper]

Mithra is a thot

 

[Ricky365]

The first 3 gods were largely fine with giving up their throne to their successor but all of them still got killed while Merc is alive as a singularity. I assume it's Marie co-existance law function?

 

[Dvorak1902]

(...) Satanel gave his to Merc (...)

Didn't Mercurius instantly kill Satanel with Sequere Naturam and take it by force??


Oh right. I forgot Nero's Law is communism and that would be considered a fair succession method.

 

[Ionliosite]

Funny that calling Nero's law communism isn't that far away from its power.

 

[Infera28]

Nothing here is really indicitve of EE, tbh.
And Ren's scythe has Marie's Death Curse, not EE.

Not to mention, this was a werid dream halluxtion thingy - I wouldn't take anything from it as a legit feat.

so we are gonna remove Reinhard's resistance against EE? cuz that seems everyone accepted he isn't capable of surviving Machina's punches

althought someone said as stated by Masada, chance Machina killing Reinhard is nonexistent but he hadn't a direct link to Masada's quote

 

[Ricky365]

what does Rindou think of Rein's philosophy? It seems like Longinus lets a shadow of Rein tell Rindou "break it if you love it" ?

 

[PsychoWarper]

Yeah it seems people have agreed that Reinhards resistance to EE isnt legit but either way Machina definitely isnt capable of killing Reinhard even if he hits him but he still doesnt seem to resist it.