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Masadaverse Discussion Thread 20

i can ask that where stated not even a Tsar Bomb can kill Einherjars? like a scan or something ? it in Verfaulender Segen Other Story stated something like Hiroshima Atomic Bombardment kills Reinhard's Fangs ( referred to his Einherjards) but using that is illogical as more Swastikas will be openned
 
ZERO7772 said:
Pretty sure the hadou gods we see in in the prologue ARE the real and Kouha was about to make copies of them because they can't leave the throne in the first place.

Naraka revivied them from the throne record as far I am aware.
Click to expand...
Really? I think I read something about Kouha serving her purpose similar to the Throne's record and something like that, when was it stated that A Naraka revived them? Can you link? Been forever since Last time I checked.

And based on some of Masada's tweets, shit's been getting retconned a lot lately, like how "craving" wasn't all that relevant until Snake. That and Satanel's world.

Off topic: Anyone watched Detective Pikachu? Thing's pretty good.

EDIT: Just checked again, yeah, they aren't in perfect state, they are, based on my interpretation* dependent on Kouha's manifestations.
 
Hello there, it's been a while since I've lurked here but I finally signed in.

Actually Raven, Naraka has all of them on a leash, they are the real, bona fide Gods revived/brought back/whatever by him. https://i.imgur.com/s3RfOIj.jpg

Kouha "Aions" would have been the gacha characters (if Pantheon was released has a mobage), that's why she can't accuratly copy some people like Kemono-dono(she can't understand him) or Hajun(he's too strong). They are limited by her own perceptions and informations about the originals and the copies are only as strong as herself.https://i.imgur.com/YWIzeVm.jpg

The Gods are stuck at their current location because of Naraka, that's why Mithra has Kouha made aions of the Gods and sent her away to start the 1st move.
 
Hello there, it's been a while since I've lurked here but I finally signed in.

Actually Raven, Naraka has all of them on a leash, they are the real, bona fide Gods revived/brought back/whatever by him. https://i.imgur.com/s3RfOIj.jpg

From what I know, and what people have been saying on spacebattles ( Ninja Dog, Trexalfa and co ) The one who is actually hosting the "meeting" of all Gods is Kouha, particularly her Pantheon.

I don't deny that they're the real deal, but Kouha is the one maintaining their manifestations. That's why Muzan could cut Hajun's little finger in the first place. I know that she's the center of the gacha. The game's name's basically her ability.

I don't need the scan telling me "they're the real deal" I need the one specifically stating that Naraka brought them back by his own power. As for now I stand my point.

From my viewpoint it's more like Naraka using Pantheon to revive them.
 
>I don't deny that they're the real deal, but Kouha is the one maintaining their manifestations. That's why Muzan could cut Hajun's little finger in the first place.

No. Muzan is just that good~
 
You know you're a badass when Kemono-dono talks about destroying you. Haha.

Anyways, if you can get the scan, please send it to me.
 
https://i.imgur.com/BTETxUE.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Dtzi9PY.jpg

Got u here, that's Naraka speaking to the God and telling them to stay put until he get the last 2 needed for the Sephiroth.

The scan with Muzan I posted earlier was him saying they were indeed controlled by someone else, while they still have some freedom(like Mithra meeting Kouha and Muzan attacking Hajun), they can't die and instantly heal from their wounds

No, Muzan is the best God at killing everyone and everything(just 2nd from Hajun's Metsujin Messou), the reason he could do it is because of that and also from his Commandments.
 
Muzan > All

No one dares to doubt the chadness of Muzan-dono (ÔûÇ╠┐─╣╠»ÔûÇ╠┐ ╠┐)

IIRC Mithra implied that Muzan is actually above Reinhard and is about the only guy who can take Hajun head on and actually hurt him.
 
Of course, he's the single most unrivaled, undefeated God and the embodiment of martial might as Kouha and Mithra said so.

Like Satanael said, if Hajun is a Calamity, Ougon(Kemono-dono) is War, then Muzan is a Sword, the greatest and unbreakable blade who only grows sharper with each kill and each drop of blood spent. https://i.imgur.com/SmYKJGO.jpg Ren was freaking out that he was able to wound Hajun, he took a finger from him in exchange of 1 hand.
 
What you are proposing is more within the realm of "speculation" than actual proof that Naraka directly revived them, and that their manifestations aren't being maintained by Kouha's pantheon.

No, Muzan is the best God at killing everyone and everything(just 2nd from Hajun's Metsujin Messou), the reason he could do it is because of that and also from his Commandments.

This, once again, is very debatable. Using "Muzan is only second to Hajun" argument is not a good idea, and is also a very questionable line of reasoning, and we know nothing about his Commandments besides some info from Masada.

At this point it's more of speculating what happened rather discussing what actually happened.
 
Hey, I know I asked before but what are this commandments? And what info do we have available for them actually? And someone knows how Muzan has three of them?
 
Ravenous4th said:
What you are proposing is more within the realm of "speculation" than actual proof that Naraka directly revived them, and that their manifestations aren't being maintained by Kouha's pantheon.
Click to expand...
Please can you post a scan of where it was said that Kouha revived the Gods with her Pantheon?

Because I can post where it is said she had to use her Pantheon to make aions of them because they can't take any action themselves.

https://i.imgur.com/wpexTT9.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/N6r2JCI.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/r9haVHk.jpg
 
Tony di bugalu said:
Hey, I know I asked before but what are this commandments? And what info do we have available for them actually? And someone knows how Muzan has three of them?
Click to expand...
From what I know, ( How many times have I said it again? ex-di ) It seems that the "Commandments" are something akin to Limitations/Restrictions in Hunter x Hunter, but this time If you break them, you'll atleast die instantly. pretty hardcore I guess?
 
Commandments are like Forced Cooperations, but it deals with following a principle to the absolute rather than having the enemies activate it. Basically, as long as you don't break the rules, you possess broken powers. If you do, you die.
 
Commandments seem to be very good in Muzan's hands when you sit down and think about it. It's a double-edged power that can be used against you, especially when someone uses a dirty method such as taking hostages to force you break the rules.

Muzan with his remorseless characteristic just deals with this.
 
Ravenous4th said:
This, once again, is very debatable. Using "Muzan is only second to Hajun" argument is not a good idea, and is also a very questionable line of reasoning, and we know nothing about his Commandments besides some info from Masada.
Click to expand...
He is tho? Masada literally said the reason Muzan is able to cut Hajun is because he's the most combative god and his commandments, not because "they are in incompelte state".

I joked a bit, but the narrative itself goes out of it way several times to wank Muzan just a bit more. He's the strongest offense to Ren/Yato strongest defense, which was able to somewhat hold back Hajun's law and even push it back when he gained his power back.

Ren himself should knows Hajun's power better than anyone and he was just as suprised at the fact of Muzan being even able to injure Hajun head on, something not even all the DI gods compained could have done.
 
You know that we're going to need more context than "second stronkest!" to safely conclude that he is, in fact, capable of doing so at any given state. Be it complete or not.

Ren ( Not gonna say Yato since he doesn't have his memories ) even stated that "oh snap! that should've been impossible!"

Please don't jump the gun, we don't even know proper context behind it. What we're doing right now is using our own headcanons as our arguments. How strong are the Gods? How far are they compared to their prime? Does Hajun even have the Tumor with him? .... ... We don't know yet.

Having said that, I do really hope that there are worlds outside of Shinza and that Naraka > Hajun even in power.

Sadly these are all speculations.
 
Yeah, Kemono-dono himself said Muzan and Hajun didn't clashed once in that instant but thousands, tens of thousands or even more times.

@Raven "Ren ( Not gonna say Yato since he doesn't have his memories )"

What? I'm sorry but did you really watched the Pantheon prologue? The Ren that we see WAS Yato in K3, why do you think Mithra is thanking him for stopping Hajun and why does he know how to deal with him the most?

"How strong are the Gods? How far are they compared to their prime? Does Hajun even have the Tumor with him?"

Like I said before unless you can refute me with some proofs from your end, those are the OG Gods, no Hajun don't have the tumor anymore but it doesn't matter, even after being "saved" by his "brother", he will not change, he will always be angry because something else other than him is pissing him off, it was literally said in the prologue.
 
Ravenous4th said:
Ren ( Not gonna say Yato since he doesn't have his memories ) even stated that "oh snap! that should've been impossible!"
Click to expand...
IIRC he remembers his time as Yato or at least that's what I got from the video of VNW (I know, I know, but when you don't know Japanese the guy is better than nothing).
 
I was just addressing the fact that claimed Muzan is only able to hurt Hajun cuz he's incomplete, which goes against what the autor stated aboute Muzan being the combative god.

Ren DOES has his memories as Yato, did we watch the same video? And that doesn't matter either way cuz Ren saw Hajun at his strongest when he fought him along with the rest of the gods.

We are allowed to spectalite because Pantheon will never come out lol.

In all seriousness, Mithra at the very least stated that Beast immortal legion is no match for Muzan, so we have that.
 
He does? In Masada fragmented tweets he was pretty much questioning "who was it that killed Hajun? Was he stronger?"

But he could've been just as blind as an oblivion guard. I know I copied the joke but still "stop right there Hajoon Scum!"

Ren seems OP enough to even stop Genocide and Hajun from killing each other.

And no, Masada stating that "he's the second best at killing" doesn't necessarily mean that Hajun is not weakened or that's he is with the tumor. Ren having fought Hajun doesn't really mean anything since it was Tumor Hajun and we don't know how much power currents Hajun has.

Reinhard > All. Now fight me.

Not even our knowledgeable members would confidently assume that they are the same gods with the same Taikyoku value. And what makes you think that Ren ( given that he is Yato ) who was drained to the point that he had 70 tk just by withstanding Hajun's outflow could stop both Muzan and Hajun? He got buffed? Doubt it.

Hajun "focusing" at something wouldn't make him as strong as when he was with the Tumor, if anything it goes against his nature, and will possibly even weaken him. They could be in their prime, they could be nerfed. Pantheon will tell us where they stand. If it will ever happen.

Yes, I watched the video, but I was mistaking it with the information based on Masada's tweets. It is not "those are OG gods unless proven otherwise" it's "Those aren't OG Gods unless proven otherwise" and you do know that by the very same machine translator it would yield ***** like Yato being Hajun's cell, you know that right?
 
Why would he still have the Tumor with him since it's a sakura tree who play as a pink haired girl in Amaterasu?

Like I said before, he's not weaker, he will not change even after his salvation https://i.imgur.com/kV6p33J.jpg He's only even more pissed off and laughing at the prospect of Metsujin Messou the 5 Higher Existences.

From your replies, seems you didn't watched the prologue at all.

And when was Taikyoku value a thing in Pantheon? for all we knows Masada might just have put it in the trash.
 
In order to prove that he is as strong as when he had the tumor, you must first find a proof that he has found some sort of replacement.

Mate, Hajun "not changing after salvation" could mean a lot of things, what makes you think that it specifically mean that he still has the same power when in k3 it was stated that's "after extracting the tumor he has lost all the pent up desire" and became a stronger vulnerable as your average Hadou God?

I don't think think you understand what makes Tumor Hajun so special in the first place.

Keyword: might. We don't know. Why do you keep insisting that The Hadou Gods are the gods at their prime with the same "prove me wrong" argument? Hell, even using Muzan's youthful appearance is a better argument.
 
Yeah, you really didn't watched the prologue, I'll stop here.

And no I'm not watching shit like VNW on yt or get my sources 2nd handed, I'm watching the complete playthrough from Arian and opened my dictionary to read it.
 
Sephiron000 said:
Yeah, you really didn't watched the prologue, I'll stop here.

And no I'm not watching shit like VNW on yt or get my sources 2nd handed, I'm watching the complete playthrough from Arian and opened my dictionary to read it.
Click to expand...
Code: 
Here's the thing though, I've already conceded two points.
-Kouha not hosting the meeting. (???) -Ren has Yato memories. ( Old pantheon tweets told us that he didn't, so retcon. )

My problem is how you are going to prove that the Gods are at the prime or not?

Because, no offense but using Hajun as your measuring stick while also using "he doesn't change after his salvation" scan as an argument is eh.

I'm not trying to approach you in an aggressive manner, but we're going to need a concrete, solid proof before we can conclude anything.
 
Where did I say that they were at their prime or not? I only said the the Gods here are the REAL ones, revived by some unknown mean by Naraka, not some sort of aions or copies made by Kouha which it seems you already conceded.

https://i.imgur.com/Wq3qpir.jpg

Guess you can interpret it however you want.
 
I thought I conceded the first point on like.... my second or third post that they're the real deal? I conceded because I can't tell people to believe my own interpretation without a concrete proof, In the very first post, I didn't even deny that Naraka somehow revived all the Gods, I was merely saying that based on some comments and from my own perspective, it seemed as though they were "incomplete" and might be maintained by Kouha. Which were all my interpretations. Real thing is we don't know. And I didn't once state they were Aeons. My speculations are based on those from SB. In some of Masada's tweets, There was a script of "what happens before pantheon prologue" with Mercurius specifically stating that it seemed as if they were in some sort of "Pantheon".

What we've been doing is arguing our interpretations on Hajun and Muzan. It was all pointless.

I'm not gonna lie, from the prologue it seems that he still has the infinitely rising nature of his power, however it does contradict the descriptions of his power portrayed in K3.

That's why my argument was "lol we dunno" as we don't know how could Muzan cut his finger; We don't know how his commandment works, we also don't know if the concept of Taikyoku is scraped at this point ( I believe it is. ) Until we know that the Hajun we see already has some sort of "replacement" fueling his power infinitely, it's not really safe to conclude anything yet.

I agree with you to a certain extent if you couldn't tell. But for ****'s sake people just keep jumping to conclusions.

EDIT: Shit, seems that it was my fault, my posts were vague and misleading as hell.
 
Commandments (µêÆÕ¥ï, kairitsu) is something from Shinga's era. Taking the concept of immortality in relation to Reinhard (and his einherjars) she told him that the person attaining immortality (in the overall sense, immortality, invulnerability, Regenerationn, or whatever complete set) one would have to take on any and every attack directed at them (so they "swear" to follow that in order to gain a privilege) and this is why Muzan has them as he was part of her world back then.

She was probably forcing this on people similar to Merc's "cravings" as part of her system. Muzan would have something like "but you're all evil lol". Satanael would have "you are pure but you don't have freedom sorry". Marie would have "but you don't have to fight each other and can coexist and even get what you want". Hajun is "no exists but me, get the **** out and I'll genocide you all". I assume Amaterasu would be a mix of Marie and Reinhard or something similar.
 
Ravenous4th said:
How accurate? Someone attempted to use it on K3. Results? Yato is somehow Hajun's cell.
It kinda sucks I guess?
Click to expand...
Well, since Light is gone, I guess it is better than nothing.

Do you have link to the vid? And do I need to know anything before watching/reading it like character names and such?
 
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