Masadaverse Discussion Thread 20

[THOK_AST_THOK]

I was saying that your stance on Overture being > Scherzo as inaccurate is wrong. The fact that you also brought the bit about how Ren can't hold it for long also support my claim.

Overture do have more power than Scherzo overall. Scherzo is only stronger in a very specific circumstances

 

[PairusDragonoid]

Do you mean quantity instead of cuantities?

Quantity, some times I write so bad....

 

[Dziga]

Your only supporting "evidence" for that is Soul Fuel which only counts for Stamina in this case. Characters being able to surpass quantity with quality is theme that happens recurrently in the Dies Irae novels, so Ren having low fuel doesn't invalidate the statement that he got a power boost and neither proves he got weaker.

 

[Black_knight_of_the_darkness]

Some of the characters from dies irae have true godly Regenerationn for no reason at all

 

[Dziga]

Only 1-A's have True Godly as far as I know and theirs is legit.

 

[Black_knight_of_the_darkness]

Yeah I know

 

[Dziga]

Then you know they have a reason to have True Godly.

 

[THOK_AST_THOK]

Soul within one's own reserve doesn't only count for their stamina. It was outright explained by Kei that an Apostle get stronger with more souls that they possesses, with the quality of a soul sometimes being a factor. Hell, one of the biggest point in IkaBey is basically this, Bey's biggest reason to keep Claudia around was to reap her soul whose quality is higher than normal souls

Ren as of Scherzo literally lose one of his biggest strength which was Marie's soul. His power "boost" only comes as a specific form of hax that only work against a specific type of enemies, one which he cannot hold for long to boot. Outside of that scope hes got practically nothing other than a glorified lightning shooter

Him having a single soul compared to when he hold 10 or so souls that Kasumi reaped + Marie's soul do mean hes weaker

 

[Dziga]

No it doesn't, you're presuming Ren's own soul can't be more than some random's normie shit which doesn't require any explanation to why is wrong. You're just regurgitating the same point.

 

[Warren_Valion]

No it doesn't, you're presuming Ren's own soul can't be more than some random's normie shit which doesn't require any explanation to why is wrong. You're just regurgitating the same point.

You're assuming that Ren's soul is greater than Marie.

 

[Dziga]

Yes, Ren's soul is clearly Tier 0 and the True Omnipotent God of the Shinza Verse duhhh.

 

[THOK_AST_THOK]

Because there's literally nothing about his soul that makes it so special. At least not to the point where it has the same clause as Marie and/or Reinhard. So even if his soul is special and its quality is higher than mundane souls, it'd still be a "normie" tier compared to what he used to have

So yes. Ren losing Marie's soul do mean hes getting weaker. His transition to Scherzo only count as a boost if he was fighting being that fall under the type of beings that Scherzo is good at killing, it's not strong outside of that circumstances.

He'd hit ***** harder with his scythe-arm-thing than he'd be using Thrud Walkure

Only reason it seems significant within canon was because the list of Ren's enemies are filled with what's basically something that Scherzo counters best

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

• raises hand*

Isn't Ren's soul like

made out of part of Merc's

 

[Dziga]

Don't even bother he's just gonna loop his argument Acta est Fabula style.

 

[First_Witch]

Wasnt it....

Machinas soul?

 

[Dziga]

Ren's soul was created from Lotus' but it's imbued with Merc's.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Half of Machina's soul with the essence/blood of Merc, wich allows him to reach Atziluth IIRC, not that his soul is of the same quality as Rein/Marie.

 

[THOK_AST_THOK]

*raises hand*
Isn't Ren's soul like

made out of part of Merc's

Tony beats me to it. But yea Ren's soul is the result of Merc's machination using Lotus' soul, Michael's, and the other 60k souls. Lotus' became the basis for Ren and got imbued by Merc's blood (however that works), while Michael's and the rest of the soul became the basis for Machina. This gave Ren a slight spark of divinity that made it possible for him to ascend into godhood through Die Ewigkeit

Heard people talking about how Wolfsrudel explain Ren's birth with more details, but i haven't read it so i can't say much about it

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Ren's birth is totally complicated lol.

 

[Tony_di_bugalu]

Ren's birth is totally complicated lol.

I agree :v

 

[TonySansNom]

Lotus' became the basis for Ren and got imbued by Merc's blood (however that works),

That really does sound stupid if we take it in the litteral sense.

 

[PairusDragonoid]

Nah, Ren its a beatch like merc, that the reason 8U

OMFScience, i cant write an insult Dx

 

[TISSG7Redgrave]

Ren's birth is totally complicated lol.

the family tree at this point can be all kinds of wtfs but this is merc who complicates this :V

 

[PairusDragonoid]

the family tree at this point can be all kinds of wtfs but this is Spinnewho complicates this :V

Fixed

 

[Dziga]

Technically right.

 

[TonySansNom]

Didn't realize it but Shinga doesn't have the "dots" flowing like everyone else with her sigil/emanation symbol in the prologue. Isn't it curious?

 

[LumixXto]

When the Masadas explanation page is gonna be updated with the Interviews lore and Paradise Lost?

 

[Black_knight_of_the_darkness]

Why do all masadaverse 1-A characters have true godly Regenerationn?

 

[Paul_Frank]

Because all 1-As have true godly afaik

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

Because all 1-As have true godly afaik

No lol, that's not how that works

 

[Dvorak1902]

Because all 1-As have true godly afaik

Nope, all True-Godly's are 1-A but not all 1-A's are True-Godly. Even someone unfathomably into the tier like Bernkastel can not have it.

 

[First_Witch]

Because all 1-As have true godly afaik

Nope, all True-Godly's are 1-A but not all 1-A's are True-Godly. Even someone unfathomably into the tier like Bernkastel can not have it.

She actually has it inofficially. It was part of a earlier Umineko revision that never took of because TMR left the wiki.

 

[TonySansNom]

Because all 1-As have true godly afaik

Nope, all True-Godly's are 1-A but not all 1-A's are True-Godly. Even someone unfathomably into the tier like Bernkastel can not have it.

I'm pretty sure everyone has it in Umineko, even a normal human because of how the verse works.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Why do all masadaverse 1-A characters have true godly Regenerationn?

I think it's because Hadou Gods fight and regenerate from other Hadou Gods attacks.

 

[Dark_warrior_100]

That should be taken out unless someone can prove it, i remember people arguing about this and ALRF kept saying "let's wait till pantheon"

but now that pantheon is canceled...

 

[Warren_Valion]

That should be taken out unless someone can prove it, i remember people arguing about this and ALRF kept saying "let's wait till pantheon"
but now that pantheon is canceled...

Hadou Gods still fought each other at the end of Dies Irae.

If that's the reasoning, then it is still sound.

 

[Paul_Frank]

Pretty sure Ren and Rein regenerated from Mercurius' grand cross when the three of them fought

 

[Dark_warrior_100]

But were they '''erased''' by those attacks?

 

[Dziga]

Mercurius can comeback from 1-A Erasure via Acta est Fabula. Not sure about the rest.

 

[TonySansNom]

...The tumor?