Marvel "Upgrades"

[The_Impress]

So after the tier-drop from tier 5 to tier 6, alot of peak feats previously dismissed as outliers are FAR more notable, so this thread will bring them to light.

• Binary: So basically Binary's low end always pissed me off as she VERY blatantly shouldn't be anywhere near Thing tier. Binary very notably blows up a planet, which noted that we never see its dimensions, is 5-B, so her low end should no longer be High 6-C
• Amadeus Cho: Cho if you don't know, is a variable tier just like Hulk, and at his peak pissed off-ness, he threatened to destroy the moon (albeit with multiple hits), noting this, he should go "Varies. High 6-C to at most 5-C"
• Black Bolt: In what is shown as the peak of Black Bolt's matter manipulation skills, he was shown to be able to counter a planet destroying solar flare. Considering "destroying a planet" honestly can just mean a BAJILLION things, we should go by the factor he stopped a Solar Flare, and thus he should be rated "At least 6-A, likely far higher with matter manipulation"
• ******* Cyclops: Okay so, Cyclops at one point states he was hitting Juggernaut with the force to split a small planet. We never see him do anything like this ever again, Juggernaut is COMPLETELY unaffected, these is zero environmental destruction resultant. I will recalc this feat, first time got 6-A results but the calc has a fatal error, but until then, he should be listed POSSIBLY higher
• All the characters should have their restraint tiers matchbanned. It leads to unfair representation and SBA wonkyness. We ONLY list them on files for indexing purposes exclusively.

Additional Points Added On:

• Doctor Doom's armor got listed as "6-B at peak", unscaleably.
• High 6-C to be removed from Thor and Hercules, to be replaced by a note.

 

[The_Impress]

And for the record, no, these characters scale to fuckall. I knew this.

@Antvasima Can you gather folks for inputting?

 

[Tllmbrg]

Ig this looks fine

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I agree with the first four points but I'm neutral on the last one, leaning on agreeing.

 

[Armorchompy]

Couldn't the Cyclops thing be hyperbole? Feels a bit weak on its own

 

[Antvasima]

@Zensum @C2_of_Omegon @Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Newendigo @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @LordTracer @Confluctor

Your input would be appreciated here.

 

[Yar_R_agi_7k]

ohoo, wouldn't you normally turn on downgrade crts for marmel...

(Agree)

 

[The_Impress]

That's why it's a possibly :v

Couldn't the Cyclops thing be hyperbole? Feels a bit weak on its own

 

[Antvasima]

Couldn't the Cyclops thing be hyperbole? Feels a bit weak on its own

I think so as well. All of his destructive feats are of a much lower scale.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Not talking about the Upgrade, but about AP justifications
The Thing justification

Attack Potency: Large Island level (Comparable to Colossus)

Colossus justification

Attack Potency: Large Island level (Comparable to The Thing)

This needs some elaboration

 

[Antvasima]

I think that the Blue Marvel was stated to be capable of destroying moons in a single blow, so maybe we can give him and the characters that scale to him 5-C as a lower border?

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Not talking about the Upgrade, but about AP justifications
The Thing justification

Colossus justification


This needs some elaboration

To be fair this is like the same for like all of them. They all just need elaboration

 

[Antvasima]

I noticed that the Trion Juggernaut has matter manipulation and energy manipulation. Where did those abilities come from? I don't remember him demonstrating them during the story. They should probably be removed.

 

[The_Impress]

The Thing justification

Changed Thing's justification. Hopefully that works.

I think that the Blue Marvel was stated to be capable of destroying moons in a single blow, so maybe we can give him and the characters that scale to him 5-C as a lower border?

...aren't they listed 4-B?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that he is currently listed as "At least High 6-C, possibly 4-B".

 

[The_Impress]

...why. He's fairly treated as one of the strongest 4-Bs even.

 

[Hellbeast]

Couldn't the Cyclops thing be hyperbole? Feels a bit weak on its own

Yeah it feels too high next to his other feats tbh

At most I can see a Likely Far Higher for it

 

[The_Impress]

i even capitalized possibly òwó

 

[Antvasima]

...why. He's fairly treated as one of the strongest 4-Bs even.

I do not know. It was your revision project that adjusted his tier. Maybe somebody misunderstood instructions?

 

[The_Impress]

...no, he and Anti-Man stayed 4-B because Sentry himself claimed he had never fought a single character more powerful than Anti-Man

 

[Hellbeast]

i even capitalized possibly òwó

I noticed
I'm pointing out It feels too speculative for even a Possibly 6-A

 

[Antvasima]

...no, he and Anti-Man stayed 4-B because Sentry himself claimed he had never fought a single character more powerful than Anti-Man

See here:

Anti-Man (Marvel Comics)

Conner Sims was a veteran of the Korean War, a member of the US Marine Corps along with his best friend, Adam Brashear. Conner and Adam were more like brothers than friends, they were each others' godparent for their children, and Conner fought bigots that mistreated Adam. They later became the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

I mean... it says "possibly higher" not "possibly 6-A"

 

[The_Impress]

See here:

Anti-Man (Marvel Comics)

Conner Sims was a veteran of the Korean War, a member of the US Marine Corps along with his best friend, Adam Brashear. Conner and Adam were more like brothers than friends, they were each others' godparent for their children, and Conner fought bigots that mistreated Adam. They later became the...

vsbattles.fandom.com

...this looks like a result of Confluctor's CRT.

I'll discuss it with him offsite and (likely) revert him to just 4-B. Think this will have to be discussed later

 

[LordTracer]

This all seems fine to me.

 

[KieranH10]

Looks fine to me. I'm also hesitant on the Cyclops thing tho.

 

[Ehnkr2beboh]

Everything checks out to me.

 

[LordTracer]

Iirc in the last thread, Efeciente brought up a possibly Tier 5 feat for Doctor Doom, could someone get him and see if it yields anything good?

 

[The_Impress]

It looks tier 6 tbh.

But yeah I can ask @Amelia_Lonelyheart to calc it.

 

[The_Impress]

I did note a problem with it, in that it's kinda... weird. Doom gets teleported during the feat rather inexplicably, making me feel it may be too unconventional to use, and puts into question whether he even relevantly tanked any notable yield

@Eficiente, what do you think?

 

[The_Impress]

Darvel DOMics: Doom durability

vsbattles.fandom.com

High 6-B yield btw.

 

[LordTracer]

Well, assuming that it’s fine to use for scaling, that puts the F4 level people at High 6-B.

 

[The_Impress]

Here is my big problem, rereading the issue

There is honestly little proof the "black hole" was ever destructive, all indications paint it as a non-destructive portal to another universe. It does near nothing to Brashear who had travelled through it prior.

As noted, all damage done to Doom is VERY minor.

So I think there is just... nothing TO tank

 

[Antvasima]

...this looks like a result of Confluctor's CRT.

I'll discuss it with him offsite and (likely) revert him to just 4-B. Think this will have to be discussed later

Can you check through the other recently edited Marvel profile pages as well, and correct them when necessary?

 

[Antvasima]

Here is my big problem, rereading the issue

There is honestly little proof the "black hole" was ever destructive, all indications paint it as a non-destructive portal to another universe. It does near nothing to Brashear who had travelled through it prior.

As noted, all damage done to Doom is VERY minor.

So I think there is just... nothing TO tank

This makes sense to me.

 

[Confluctor]

So, I assume we will need to find feats to upgrade them to their rightful tier, right?

 

[The_Impress]

?

 

[Antvasima]

?

Anti-Man and Blue Marvel are far from the only heavy hitters that have been downgraded to a lower border of High 6-C.

 

[Antvasima]

Can you check through the other recently edited Marvel profile pages as well, and correct them when necessary?

 

[Eficiente]

There is honestly little proof the "black hole" was ever destructive, all indications paint it as a non-destructive portal to another universe. It does near nothing to Brashear who had travelled through it prior.

As noted, all damage done to Doom is VERY minor.

So I think there is just... nothing TO tank

The black hole wasn't destructive and Doom didn't take being in it. He took the thing exploiting, which is destructive as he took damage from it, it was an explosion, and we can see that it made many "small" pieces of the moon be teared off from the moon and violently blown away. He got teleported at least after that started.

No other part of the moon got teleported with Doom and so we could argue that he got teleported "the second" he got hit by the explosion without taking its full power, except we're shown that his cape is dirty, something that couldn't happen if only the blast of energy were to just reach him, it should have been for enough time that he then fell on the ground or parts of the moon not destroyed by the explosion reached into his cape, and then he got teleported.

So yeah, it is a weird feat and skepticism is appreciated, but I believe it's a legit feat for those reasons.

Also the scaling would be a bit unusual, doesn't Doom's armor separate him from the physical world or something? Nobody (of his level) ever cracks his armor when harming him, let alone let him unconscious, maybe his armor is just that durable, he inside it can be harmed by less, and those wonky "defensive systems" it has do what they can to keep Doom fine when higher impacts reach him.

On the topic of his durability, to quote myself from this thread:

• How he can "easily take a beating from the Thing" doesn't pointed out how he still gets harmed by it, it shouldn't be as "likely higher"
• The attack he took from Galactus should be removed as Galactus was just expeling Doom out of his ship while also feeling like harming Doom on it. He wasn't trying to kill him as he put on the effort to kick him out. How Doom was left after this happened was a very important part of that feat and we also just so happen to ignore.
• The punch that sent him flying around the planet is cool and all but notat his level
• The attack he barely survived from Thanos w/ the IG was with a Thanos who was playing around and how was harmed by a kick from Spider-Man, and tagged by the latter and Wolverine as he was fighting/toying everyone at once.
• Thor was going easy on Doom in Secret Wars and leaved the fight a bit later, Doom's forcefields taking his attack shouldn't go in the "higher" for it.