Marvel Tiering Adjustments

[LordWhis]

we got multiple steps of backwards scaling comparing 9-A characters to 1-A characters.
The iceman vs Oblivion fights was an illusion created by oblivion, I don't know why people are still bringing this up.

 

[The_Impress]

I honestly think 4-B Odin is far weaker than what he's potrayed as when compared to other 4-Bs. He's shown to be superior to them in power significantly, so I reckon he should at least haigher than that by a significant enough margin.

Also, I do agree with C2 that unless there has been a significant canonical reason for Odin to be weaker, he shouldn't need that key. We didn't downgrade Spider-Man to 9-A despite his classic incarnation being at that level far more consistently than his modern one, why is this any different? Also, doing this also results in making it far more complicated to make any further profiles, or leaving our current profiles somewhat unreliable, as seen with our Dormammu (Classic) profile

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Base Thor is still considered weaker than Sentry. And Sentry's primary statement of power is "The Strength of over one million Supernovas." Which is a very good 4-B justification. But he regularly requires different forms or other power ups beyond that.

 

[Antvasima]

The problem here is that Marvel's editorial department (Tom Brevoort) has stated outright that they do not even consider or treat Odin as anywhere near galaxy level nowadays, and the writer Jason Aaron has gone out of his way to completely change Odin's character, severely depower him, and subject him to a neverending series of humiliations because he is supposed to symbolically represent some imaginary form of northern patriarchy that they ideologically despise and wish to thoroughly dismantle, demoralise, and destroy.

As such, given Marvel Comics' transformation into an extremely slanted and distorted political propaganda machine, the change seems to be permanent, and we preferably need to make a distinction between Odin's traditional and modern portrayals, or any character that matches or beats him up will seem like they should be 2-C as well, and we will get a lot of ongoing demands for this.

 

[Antvasima]

The iceman vs Oblivion fights was an illusion created by oblivion, I don't know why people are still bringing this up.

Please check the Black Panther entry instead.

 

[Antvasima]

Anyway, I unlocked the Odin (Marvel Comics) page again, if somebody wishes to add scans, although given that the consensus here seems to be to remove the 4-B statistics, it may not be necessary.

 

[SuperAPM]

I've added it anyway since I believe this would clear up further issues with scaling. You know the drill.

I've also found these images of Thor that I think would fit better on his profile than the current one. Pretty unnecessary but I thought I'd show them incase anyone else also preferred them.

Classic Thor, Modern Thor and Modern...er, Thor....

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you for the help.

The classic Thor costume could maybe be added to the page. I think that we already have a good drawing of the Straczynski version.

 

[SuperAPM]

has all the issue's pertaining to Odin's tier and scaling been concluded?

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

It seems fine to me

 

[Antvasima]

I don't know. It depends on what the others think.

 

[SuperAPM]

Ok, then we should probably continue discussing the subject of the thread with no more derailing. Although waiting for more input wouldn't hurt

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, agreed.

 

[The_Unknown_Warrior1]

I'll give my own input.

I think based off Ant's reasoning with what Marvel been doing with Odin and the scans I think a 4-B key for Modern Odin is fine enough

 

[Antvasima]

I added the classic Thor image to his profile page, along with a quote that seemed fitting.

 

[Antvasima]

Here were the quotes that I found which seemed suitable for the classic Thor:

"But I have many names, serpent, even as you. Vingthor the Hurler, Longbeard's Son, have I been called. Hrodr's foeman, too. In Tyr's ancestral home, wisest Hymir knew my name as Veur; unhappy Hrungnir's playmate some have called me. East of Elvigar in Gianthome they whisper Hloriddi's name. My father called me son. My mother called me darling. And beneath the vaults of Heaven, I am Thor Odinson, the Thunderer, Jormungand's Fear!"

"Who speaks of causes that are lost? Who thinks Thor would falter? A man may fight, though hope be dim-- a god will fight when hope be gone!"

"Indeed...but let them tremble when the clarion call sounds! The revelation of our very existence will strike like the mightiest thunderclap! Out victories shall be the stuff of legend! Our triumphs shall echo throughout the nine worlds -- 'tis endeavors such as these where the warrior ideals of god and man intersect to produce something greater than the sum of its parts. On this day, we have declared war...and we shall avenge the evils perpetrated by those who would oppose us. We shall...avenge them all."

I went with option 2.

 

[SuperAPM]

I'd say that was best. Short and punchy, straight to the point. I think it also illustrates Thor's character more poignantly and clearly to people that are unknowledgeable of him.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes.

 

[SuperAPM]

Shall we continue with the revision at hand or should we wait for further input?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that we should preferably continue.

Should I lock the Odin (Marvel Comics) page?

 

[SuperAPM]

That would probably be best yeah

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I also removed most of the derailing posts.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I'm still highly against this. Who cares about the ideology and what you think Marvel has become. I dislike Ichiban and Dies Irae with a passion. I'm not gonna downgrade them from T1 for it and because I don't think their ideologies are that high.

 

[SuperAPM]

Perhaps we should save the cosmic scaling for a different thread and get this sorted out first.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, maybe I am reading too much into it. I just have the impression that both the editors and writers now consider and treat Odin as much weaker than before.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Yeah and Toei treats ToP level DBS as around baseline FTL. And Nintendo treats Link as a normal human.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I suppose that you can undo the recent edits to the page if you wish then.

 

[The_Impress]

I'm down with reverting them back until further discussions regarding his actual placement and tier, as well as the need of it in the first place, especially given he still has some 2-A feats by scaling in his modern incarnations as well.

Also, this massive a change was approved by a collective of 4 people, two of which were Knowledgeable members, and one of which was staff, while this revision was protested the approximately the same number of people (with arguably more stand-in as three of them were Knowledgeable members), all in a course of at best two days. Bit quick on the trigger, ain't we? Considering this scales to a majority of characters in Asgard as well as Marvel Cosmology, and this isn't even the CRT for that change.

 

[SuperAPM]

I can make a seperate thread focused solely on Odin and other cosmic tier's and link it here if you'd like. Unless you want to make it of course, otherwise just tell me what to write and I'll make it quickly.

 

[Antvasima]

I will revert the changes to the Odin page then.

 

[The_Impress]

@SuperAPM

Preferably, just sum up the points that were made against and for the 4-B Modern Key Odin in the OP, and ask for further input

I'd do it myself but due to the exams coming, and my own insecurities about confidently handling revision threads, it'd be preferable for you to make it

 

[SuperAPM]

I'll get to it as soon as possible

 

[SuperAPM]

Here's the thread.

Since that subject has been put into a seperate thread, please focus all points in relation to Odin there so that we can continue with the subject at hand here.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[SuperAPM]

Actually, there is one other point about Ironman that I just remembered. The one who did his High 7-A calc purposefully treats the mountain as if it were stationary, their justification being that he simply destroyed it and factoring in KE would be irrelevant. But given that the mountain was very clearly thrown at incredible speeds, is this a reasonable line of thought, or would KE need to be taken into account?
There is a version of this feat with KE taken into account here. There may be some issues with it, I also know that there is a different version on OBD that I can't seem to access with lower results.

There is also this calc that seems to have been ignored

I think it is important that this get resolved before we continue, as it may be important for scaling in general

 

[Hykuu]

Not sure if this helps

 

[SuperAPM]

It'd either help with this, Or itd just be another example in win colum

Either way, man, Marvel does not make this easy for us

 

[Hykuu]

Miracle Man creates a star, The Thing beats him up a lot

The thing fights a casually planet busting herald of galactus

Fought Sasquatch, who is relative to hulk

This is a thing, not sure if this means anything but still neat

He did also fight the champion, who is casually planet level, and has some other feats on that level. Just posting most of the stuff I have for thing

 

[Antvasima]

Should this thread be restarted due to all of the derailment (partially due to myself), or do you think that we can get back on track?

 

[SuperAPM]

I can make a copy and paste 2.0 version of this thread quickly of you wish