Marvel Tiering Adjustments

[SuperAPM]

It was to my understanding that Odin is only 2-C when using the full power of the Odinforce, much like Thor himself. Correct me if I'm wrong of course, but I thought its obvious that Odin is only equal to Thor without using that power.

 

[ΚΟΜΙΞ]

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Hm, what is the context for this? Is this base level power or did she absorb any amount of energy prior to this?

I think its base power.

@Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff He used Motherstorm so to remake his old one.

 

[Antvasima]

Odin has been portrayed as far below his old levels recently, yes. We have been talking about an extra "Modern" 4-B statistics key for him.

 

[SuperAPM]

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Do you have a link to the rest of the comic? The scan you provided doesn't justify scaling directly to "Power Cosmic Tier" by itself.

Does anybody here know how much power is needed to "burn a hole through a star"

 

[Qawsedf234]

Odin has been portrayed as far below his old levels recently, yes. We have been talking about an extra "Modern" 4-B statistics key for him.

Yeah he needs one. Classic Odin and Modern Odin just have consistently different showings.

 

[SuperAPM]

Actually, there is one other point about Ironman that I just remembered. The one who did his High 7-A calc purposefully treats the mountain as if it were stationary, their justification being that he simply destroyed it and factoring in KE would be irrelevant. But given that the mountain was very clearly thrown at incredible speeds, is this a reasonable line of thought, or would KE need to be taken into account?

There is a version of this feat with KE taken into account here. There may be some issues with it, I also know that there is a different version on OBD that I can't seem to access with lower results.

There is also this calc that seems to have been ignored

 

[LordWhis]

Ah VSBW never changes- whenever I try to upgrade a character by scaling them to another character the other character ends up getting downgraded.

Thor's tiering sounds kind of ungainly, should we just change it to 4B, 4A with strongest attacks instead of listing out all of his attacks ?

 

[SuperAPM]

He already is 4-A with his God and Thermo blast

 

[Antvasima]

Is somebody reasonably knowledgeable willing to create an extra statistics key for Odin?

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Shouldn't it be another profile like Doctor Strange's profiles?

 

[SuperAPM]

I would have thought that his two keys would be Base and Odinforce Empowered respectively

 

[LordWhis]

He already is 4-A with his God and Thermo blast

I'm saying make it 4A with strongest attacks (it sounds better)

 

[LordWhis]

1. If Odin is downgraded then a lot of other characters get downgraded too. For example- both poorly fed and moderately fed galactus will be downgraded to 4B. Then you'll have to create a classic key for starving galactus which is 4A since he demonstrated 4A power and we have several characters scaling to him being 4A. Not to mention all the 2Cs who will become 4Bs- other skyfathers, Ultron,etc.

2. What about King Thor who is very clearly above 4B even in the modern era ?

 

[LordWhis]

When did Odin start looking 4B ? When did he show he was unable to generate more than 4B power ? This entire thing seems highly artificial. Maybe you could say he degraded over time but that throws his entire profile and every character directly or indirectly scaled from him into chaos.

A character losing fights isn't evidence of him getting weaker it's evidence of him meeting stronger fighters.

Odin had a universal statement what- 2 or 3 years ago. Galactus fight in 2013.

 

[The_Impress]

Whis, preferably try to keep your messages in a single post. It spams alotta notifications for us

 

[LordWhis]

Whis, preferably try to keep your messages in a single post. It spams alotta notifications for us

Sorry

I kept getting new ideas.

 

[SuperAPM]

.

 

[Antvasima]

During Jason Aaron's run Odin was downgraded to be comparable to regular and Jane Foster Thor, who have been shown as inferior to the Hulk around the same time.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Shouldn't it be another profile like Doctor Strange's profiles?

 

[LordTracer]

I don't think that'd be necessary, Doctor Strange was changed a lot more than Odin was. A key should be sufficient for Odin.

 

[SuperAPM]

Doctor Strange has a lot more keys between versions so two profiles were more appropriate. Odin only really needs two

 

[Antvasima]

An extra key should be enough.

 

[GojiBoyForever]

Alright.

 

[SuperAPM]

1. How should the keys be seperated? Classic-Modern or Base-Odinforce?

2. What should be the justifications for his 4-B statistic? Simply just "Comparable to Thor", or is anything else needed?

 

[LordTracer]

1. I think just Classic | Moder

2. "Comparable to Thor Odinson and Jane Foster."

 

[SuperAPM]

Ant If you can unlock Odin's page I can make the changes for you if you'd like

 

[Antvasima]

Classic | Modern is fine.

I will unlock the Odin (Marvel Comics) page. Tell me here when you are done.

 

[SuperAPM]

It's done, make any corrections as you see fit

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you. It wouldn't hurt wih a few example scans added to the page, but I suppose that this is mostly fine.

 

[SuperAPM]

All I could find was this video if that's any good?

 

[Antvasima]

Scans of his fights with Jane Foster and Thor are probably better.

 

[SuperAPM]

Yeah. does anyone know which comic the fight in the video takes place?

 

[LordTracer]

Here's Jane and Odin's fight.

 

[SuperAPM]

Excellent, thank you. Don't want to sound ungrateful but a scan of the Thor vs Odin fight would probably be preferable if any of you can provide that.

 

[SuperAPM]

Sigh well finally found the issue of the fight here

Most relevant scan being here of course

Ant if you want me to add the scans into Odin's profile then just unlock it and tell me when.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Nah I completely agree with LordWhis here. Seems like another case of us not liking comics's tiering, tbh. I have yet to see this done with any anime for example. Like what, i highly doubt if Goku doesn't show a 3-A feat every two arcs we'd downgrade him.

I'm in the camp that nothing is being changed, neither 2-C nor 5-A.

 

[Cropfist]

Seems like another case of us not liking comics's tiering, tbh. I have yet to see this done with any anime for example. Like what, i highly doubt if Goku doesn't show a 3-A feat every two arcs we'd downgrade him.

I agree with this.

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

I don't believe comparing anime like DB to Marvel, or DC for that matter, isn't really a good comparison. Marvel/DC has so much content that can contradict itself. A character can be depicted at one level and then depicted at another. Marvel/DC will also outright ignore things like characters getting more powerful and then treat it like it never happened.

That being said, while I was onboard with Odin having Classical and Modern keys, I did so because I thought there was some reason that Odin had gotten weaker. If there isn't, he really shouldn't be given such a key.

There has to be internal reason of why a character gets stronger or weaker. For example: Silver Surfer. A little while ago, I got him a key for his Anihillation Wave power increase which was based on him getting an upgrade by Galactus. This upgrade was never lost or taken away but writers treated it like it never happened. During the time I was proposing this upgrade, someone said that we should upgrade Thor based on him fighting this version of Surfer evenly. I shot it down because there was no reason for Thor to be that powerful, making the fight an outlier.

Doctor Strange is another example. He's lost his possession, been depowered, lost his entire collection of magic books and artifacts, etc. So having two profiles displaying him at the height of his original power (Classical) and the levels he shown in recent years and after recent upgrades (Modern) makes sense.

My point with this is that Silver Surfer and Doctor Strange have actual reasons for the flucations in power outside of writers just deciding to make them weaker or stronger on whims. If we do not apply such standards, we're going to end up creating more keys and profiles based off of 'depictions' and we'll become more inconsistent in our information of them.

TL;DR- Unless there's an actual reason on why Odin is weaker (outside of writers just being inconsistent), he shouldn't be downgraded or given a Modern key.

 

[LordWhis]

He still has the Odinforce- NOTHING says he only has a fraction but even if he did that would still make him High 3A.




He still seems way above 4B.

Current Odin is comparable to Cul who was comparable to Classic Odin.

Lastly, Current Thor was shown to be comparable to Old King Thor who is WAAAAAAAAAY beyond 4B. Easily 3C, likely 2C, possibly even higher.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

@Cal Howard, pretty sure that's false equivalency. The difference is that DB characters are always getting stronger and all low end feats are either extremely casual, Ki Control causing less destruction, characters holding back, or just flat out PIS. Marvel/DC characters tend to go back and forth and is full of outliers and PIS. Even Bulma would be Low 2-C based on the same logic of Base Thor being scaled from primal Odin. Plus, Marvel/DC is so inconsistent, that we got multiple steps of backwards scaling comparing 9-A characters to 1-A characters.