Marvel Heralds Rescaling

[Confluctor]

Marvel Heralds Rescaling

vsbattles.fandom.com

Here is my proposed rescaling for the Heralds, doesn't matter what happens with the 3-C upgrade thread, this can very useful. I am open to any suggestions.


About this bit...

• most of their justifications are hella sus or extremely limited
• Eternals never fought a serious Thor, and neither did Marv
  • Marv should scale to his 4-C feat via star-making. That's his peak
• Absorbing Man's 4-B is odd af. I have no idea what to do with him, downgrade him to high 6-c, or potentially make him much higher

 

[Confluctor]

@LordTracer @Antvasima @Oliver_de_jesus @Comicgyal @Kulf_Boba @Tllmbrg @The_Impress @Firestorm808 @Qawsedf234 @Eficiente

 

[Antvasima]

Some of the placements seem off. For example, why do you want to make Anti-Man and the Blue Marvel High 6-C only?

Also, should we really give virtually of these characters 3-C tiers? Most of them have High 4-C feats at best, and that was via extreme personal exertion.

Meaning: Shouldn't we split up their scaling more?

 

[Armorchompy]

Satanna (Actually Satana) and Hellstrom's second key should be in the first category, they're Hela/Pluto level by virtue of also being Hell Lords. Speaking of which, I'm not sure about Mephisto losing his 4-B, what is it based on? I don't know him too well but again Hell Lords are all on the same level based on the multiple times they've fought.

 

[Antvasima]

@C2_of_Omegon @SuperAPM @EmperorRorepme @LuciferDC099 @Ehnkr2beboh @Deagonx @Elizio33 @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Armorchompy @Sandman31

What do you think about this?

 

[Armorchompy]

Satanna (Actually Satana) and Hellstrom's second key should be in the first category, they're Hela/Pluto level by virtue of also being Hell Lords.

Ah, also Blade's Breathing Gun hurts Hell Lord Hellstrom at one point. Well, it wasn't his gun back then, but it's the same gun.

 

[Oliver_de_jesus]

@Oliver_de_jesus

this makes me very happy, thanks

Thor-Buster is strange, King Thor could defeat him at any time but because he didn't know how to maintain his power properly, even after 17 years with OdinForce, a resurrected Desak was already able to defeat him and was able to match the destroyer, then Desak merged with the destroyer armor but when Thor stopped holding back a simple blow from his hammer defeated him, see where I am going?

King Thor holds back more than his normal form.

so it should be unknown or the page should be deleted

 

[Confluctor]

For example, why do you want to make Anti-Man and the Blue Marvel High 6-C only?

Why would they be 4-B when they don't have a single feat on that level? It comes from a throwaway statement from the Sentry and it doesn't hold up in the long run.

Also, should we really give virtually of these cbaracters 3-C tiers? Most of them have High 4-C feats at best, and that was via extreme personal exertion

Its not even about the 3-C shenanigans, it's just clearing up this mess in general.

Shouldn't we split up their scaling more

But of course, however, that will take far too long. And this mess will continue to exist.

Although some of them deserves to be in 4-B, others like mar Vell or carol don't have feats on that level.

Although I stopped reading her comics, so if she has some new feats, maybe she should be reconsidered.

this makes me very happy, thanks

Thor-Buster is strange, King Thor could defeat him at any time but because he didn't know how to maintain his power properly, even after 17 years with OdinForce, a resurrected Desak was already able to defeat him and was able to match the destroyer, then Desak merged with the destroyer armor but when Thor stopped holding back a simple blow from his hammer defeated him, see where I am going?

King Thor holds back more than his normal form.

so it should be unknown or the page should be deleted

Unknown or high 6-C works the best, yes.

 

[Confluctor]

Satanna (Actually Satana) and Hellstrom's second key should be in the first category, they're Hela/Pluto level by virtue of also being Hell Lords. Speaking of which, I'm not sure about Mephisto losing his 4-B, what is it based on? I don't know him too well but again Hell Lords are all on the same level based on the multiple times they've fought.

I was thinking of removing the 4-Bs for most hell lords. Most of them, from what I can remember, seems to be extremely casual. I don't think it's necessary tbh, just have them listed as low 2c.


Tho I forgot that I listed other hell lords in the heralds section. So I will move them all up to high heralds level

 

[Armorchompy]

I was thinking of removing the 4-Bs for most hell lords. Most of them, from what I can remember, seems to be extremely casual. I don't think it's necessary tbh, just have them listed as low 2c.

That could work to be honest, only issue might be Blackheart since IIRC he's kind of a scaling nightmare even when taking the power of Mephisto.

 

[Antvasima]

Why would they be 4-B when they don't have a single feat on that level? It comes from a throwaway statement from the Sentry and it doesn't hold up in the long run.

But outside of Thor and the Surfer, almost none of these characters have feats of anywhere near a 3-C scale either, and Blue Marvel almost matched the Sentry, whereas Anti-Man was even more powerful.

Its not even about the 3-C shenanigans, it's just clearing up this mess in general.

Okay.

But of course, however, that will take far too long. And this mess will continue to exist.

Although some of them deserves to be in 4-B, others like mar Vell or carol don't have feats on that level.

Although I stopped reading her comics, so if she has some new feats, maybe she should be reconsidered.

Okay. Further evaluation help would be very appreciated.

 

[Confluctor]

But outside of Thor and the Surfer, almost none of these characters have feats of anywhere near a 3-C scale either.

Except most of them fought surfer and Thor at peak, so?

And again, it's just about the 3c scaling. Its just in general. This kinda blog would make it easier for most people to get where these guys rank.

Blue Marvel almost matched the Sentry, whereas Anti-Man was even more powerful.

Oh, here is the fun part, he didn't. Should we give batman 4-B for beating Superman with Kryptonite? Hm?

That could work to be honest, only issue might be Blackheart since IIRC he's kind of a scaling nightmare even when taking the power of Mephisto.

Mephisto also has some statements or feats on nightmare level. Tho I think it depends on the souls he has in his possession. At peak, he is comparable. But that's a thing for another thread.

 

[Confluctor]

For context;

• Sentry was Hella weak in that arc due to what was happening in other comics
• Plus anti matter is practically his kryptonite
• And his personality was off. Thus bad story.

 

[Armorchompy]

Mephisto also has some statements or feats on nightmare level. Tho I think it depends on the souls he has in his possession. At peak, he is comparable. But that's a thing for another thread.

Nightmare is sus generally in my opinion, I remember Mephisto straight-up calling him pathetic power-wise at one point, and non-hell lord Hellstrom throws hands with him at some point so yeah definitely needs revising.

 

[Antvasima]

Except most of them fought surfer and Thor at peak, so?

Well, if Marvel regularly let's High 6-C characters fight with 3-C characters, they can certainly let High 4-C characters do the same. You know as well as I do that the MU often operates on the "everybody can fight everybody" principle.

And again, it's just about the 3c scaling. Its just in general. This kinda blog would make it easier for most people to get where these guys rank.

Okay.

Oh, here is the fun part, he didn't. Should we give batman 4-B for beating Superman with Kryptonite? Hm?

I thought that only Anti-Man's power weakened the Sentry, whereas the Blue Marvel legitimately matched him, and Anti-man was still said to be more powerful.

 

[Antvasima]

For context;

• Sentry was Hella weak in that arc due to what was happening in other comics
• Plus anti matter is practically his kryptonite
• And his personality was off. Thus bad story.

Okay. I knew about the antimatter, but not about him being weakened in general.

What about their appearances in Al Ewing's Ultimates comic book?

 

[Confluctor]

What about their appearances in Al Ewing's Ultimates comic book?

Meh nothing special or noteworthy aside from forcing Galactus into a chamber which is either PIS or some hax thing

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. The intent behind the characters is clearly that they are supposed to be somewhere on a herald level, so we will get a lot of backlash, and likely be misleading, if we place them at High 6-C only though.

 

[Confluctor]

Idk about that. If their feats are low, why should wank them? Or downplay them? He has been consistently shown a high 6c tier. Heck, even Hyperion (he was holding back around that era because of his mental stuff) was equal match to him.

At best, you could scale him to his moon feat. Which is so far his best showing.

 

[Antvasima]

But King Hyperion butchered his world's Thor and Hulk, and matched two other Hyperions at the same time, including Mark Guenwald's version, who defeated his counterpart, who had evenly fought Thor and the Hulk in physical combat, if I remember correctly, and the Blue Marvel still defeated him.

 

[Confluctor]

Alllll of them are high 6c at best. I made a blog of all their feats, you should try going through them if you ever have time. None of them are that impressive. All high 6c at best. Except for Hickman's.


Also we already agreed that King Hyperion's statements aren't usable because we don't actually see it. Plus his other feats are extremely low in comparison


Supreme power is low 6B because he doesn't scale to anyone.

 

[Kulf_Boba]

@Kulf_Boba

It all looks good, although I think it was agreed to leave Groot on the unknown level.

 

[Antvasima]

Alright then, but I don't look forward to the backlash, and would still prefer some in-between tier for character s less powerful than the 3-C Silver Surfer, but more powerful than the High 6-C Thing.

 

[Armorchompy]

I seriously doubt people will care that much about Blue Marvel's rating, he has a bit of hype but he's really just a C-Lister. Plus we should care about accuracy over fear of drama.

 

[Confluctor]

I highly doubt there will be a backlash. If they actually have feats, we will put them there, if not, I don't see it.

But yeah, I agree with an in between tier, but finding that is going to take a long long time.

 

[Confluctor]

It all looks good, although I think it was agreed to leave Groot on the unknown level.

I can agree to that.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Oymtron punched through and killed Magus, is that enough to make the Ultron-Buster Low-Herald level?

 

[Confluctor]

Should be high herald tier then. But I am still unsure of scaling iron man to it. The context of the story didn't make it seem like Ultron was going all out.

 

[Confluctor]

On a side note, are you talking about this feat of Binary? Unless we can scale white holes, don't think its usable at all.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/YKft51YjlqqgNQVAWX5_ucbb4vQtRgdmgZi9bsZhHd0Kx8vFEvw6X2tBP9z4RgpjC6L8M0SzblXl=s0

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/q3T83PMtxSkhbbJURLJEyY7-gvBq2f6jwYEUWWPnCt63VVVtPvLjVrTawKDrs3-n02vFgCdqEgLX=s0

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/a0N3pb-0EXvw1pbKmFabeUrpxl5NRbfMEUZbXCRZKZuqtlXbt6NsCpa_GnaiMEutc1k5VTHzotPN=s0

 

[Antvasima]

That is the feat, yes. She cleansed the Marvel Sun of destructive anti-matter that would have destroyed it. It seemed like a High 4-C feat to me, but a calculation would be preferable, yes.

 

[Confluctor]

eh, idk its a hax feat. she did it creating a white hole in the middle of the sun to suck the anti matter and stuff. she was just holding the white hole for long enough to clean the sun. Idk if that can be correlated to ap at all.

 

[LordTracer]

I agree with pretty much everything, though I do have some questions.

Currently, most Heralds scale from Thor and Silver Surfer (and likely Hulk). High Heralds will upscale from these three, and Low Heralds will be downscaled from these three and their AP values.

So are low heralds gonna be something like “At most 4-B?”

Ultron (Marvel Comics) - upscales from Thor

So is Ultron losing his ‘At least High 6-C’ and just being a 4-B now?

Emma Frost - second key - fought Thor, but not at his fullest. he was tired from fighting phoenix not long ago

I disagree because Emma being a full 4-B is cool

Magik - second key

She should be removed from the 4-B scaling, since she’s scaled to Namor, who only has High 6-C.

 

[Confluctor]

So are low heralds gonna be something like “At most 4-B?”

likely, yes

So is Ultron losing his ‘At least High 6-C’ and just being a 4-B now?

Either that or he will get 4-b at peak stat. likely 4-b don't make a lot of sense to me.

I disagree because Emma being a full 4-B is cool

pain

She should be removed from the 4-B scaling, since she’s scaled to Namor, who only has High 6-C.

good point, I will move her down

 

[LordTracer]

Either that or he will get 4-b at peak stat. likely 4-b don't make a lot of sense to me.

Nice. It never really made much sense to me either.

 

[Confluctor]

speaking of ultron, pymtron key also seems necessary ngl

 

[LordTracer]

I know Hank had one before, but it was removed in a previous revision.

 

[Confluctor]

interesting, i wonder why.

 

[The_Impress]

I’ll dip in to say rq I trust Confluctor’s judgement, no real need to wait for me to input since apparantely that was an issue in the last thread

 

[The_Impress]

speaking of ultron, pymtron key also seems necessary ngl

Also it was because it should go on Ultron’s page, not Pym’s :v

 

[Confluctor]

Also it was because it should go on Ultron’s page, not Pym’s :v

yeah suppose that makes more sense.

or maybe a new file? like how we do it with some dragon ball fusions?