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Marvel Comics - Odin AP Revision
- Thread starter ObberGobb
- Start date
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Nah. I guess Cul should probably be "Varies, up to 2-A"
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Great. Cul's page needs to be unlocked, though
Cul Borson
Cul Borson, also known as The Serpent, is an Asgardian god and the older brother of Odin, Vili, and Ve. He was the main villain in the crossover event Fear Itself, where he used his subordinates, the Worthy, to consume the fear of all Midgardians to grow his power in order to battle Odin, who...
vsbattles.fandom.com
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I think I am done
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Making OKT and Gorr 3-A. I can apply those changes right now
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Thank you. That would be very appreciated. Please remember to provide proper justifications for their statistics and to explain that we do not allow cross-scaling between timelines in footnotes in their pages.
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Not sure exactly how to explain it, but I tried
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I think that it looked mostly good, but removed a remaining cross-scaling reference.
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Old_King_Thor?type=revision&diff=7697288&oldid=7697266
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Old_King_Thor?type=revision&diff=7697288&oldid=7697266
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I think that Impress or Confluctor mentioned something about that Yggdrasil was only portrayed as a 2-C structure during that era, but the justifying scan seems to be from the "Everything Burns" storyline, which happened after the Matt Fraction run if I remember correctly.
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Are there scans for this?
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Yeah, the Everything Burns storyline is written by Matt Fraction too
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In hindsight, looking at this again, he's not saying that the World Tree holds "maybe infinite universes", but that it's kind of a map that can lead to maybe infinite universes. As in, when looking the World Tree and its 9 universes, it works as a map to see/be aware of more universes, but he's not necessarily saying that those are part of the World Tree, just that you can be aware of them by looking at the World Tree as a sort of map. It's just perspective, more universes being outside the World Tree in any way would mean the World Tree itself helps anyone see them if they normally can't see them, because the World Tree it's a massive super structure.
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This is just interpretation because his speech seems vague, but the universes are part of Yggdrasil.
- Mephisto created thousands of alternative realitiesin the multiverse - Paradise X: Ragnarok Vol 1 #2 - April, 2003
- Mephisto's secret was a map of access points to each of the alternate realities.
- Even though being a map, Yggdrasil is the Multiverse itself, since "A cross-section of the trunk has circles and which within the trunk represented a different timeline, and the tree grew with each new reality added to the multiverse, the further the line is from the center, the slower time moves in that reality."
- There are many Lokis, just as there are many thors and many balders, each one exists apart from the others, yet is conjoined by a shared essence, like branches on a tree: Loki Vol 1 #2 - September, 2004
- The infinite variations of Thors, Lokis, and Asgards in the world tree: Loki Vol 1 #3 - October, 2004
- The tree of life has three main roots, but it exists on every plane of reality: Journey into Mystery Vol 1 #510 - June, 1997
- Earth's legends call the multiverse as the Tree of Worlds (Yggdrasil): X-Man Vol 1 #64 - June, 2000
- Surtur would destroy all the nines realms embedded in the Yggdrasil, but the Otherworld which is a realm that is also embedded there connects the whole of the multiverse: Mighty Thor Vol 2 #21 - October 17, 2012
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2-B Mephisto?
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I went over the links and they're taken wildly out of context or with whatever being claimed based on what they really show.
Just a nitpick but the wording here is misleading, he would be partially doing so while they create themselves.
Yggdrasil is used for Dimensional Travel between those realities. It would just be saying that, not that it is those realities.
You are just saying yourself that Yggdrasil is the Multiverse, the tree having things that represent each timeline and growing with each of those just means its size is enough to fit representations of those thousands realities, it's still to be able to be used for Dimensional Travel between them, at no point does it say that it is those realities itself. The effect on time the tree has on those realities is great and all, but that doesn't mean the tree is those realities. Just that it has that effect on their time.
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I read the story for context after being done with this reply; it ends with Yggdrasil's cross-section being destroyed, and then they destroy records of someone having seen it because that's the same as the cross-section itself (a map). Not only was it not special at all, but Yggdrasil doesn't even have this mechanics anymore.
This doesn't reference Yggdrasil, it's just a comparison to explain the multiverse and alt. versions of characters.
I read the comic for context. That is not Yggdrasil, that and an image that came before it w/o any tree are just a vision Loki saw of how there are alt. versions of himself and Thor across the multiverse, and he wanted to know how his fate ends. This wasn't about Yggdrasil at all, and being turned into a tree is common (that's how Loki started in the comics). Even then a tree Thor and tree Loki wouldn't be mea to be Yggdrasil at all.
Every plane of reality may be the 9 realms. If not, it wouldn't mean that the World Tree is the multiverse, just that it has a conection/integrity with infinite other Yggdrasils that makes the main Yggdrasil easier to destroy if weakened. How much this "integrity" helps Yggdrasil is unclear.
In any case, given the dates of the comics help to give an idea.
That DNA-like spiral isn't Yggdrasil, they are simply talking about how cultures view the multiverse, in particular as a structure with a shape, and one people call it Tree of World. It's not Yggdrasil it's just one way for that people to call the multiverse.
Aside from that why would a random comment like that state Yggdrasil to be the multiverse in an X-Man comic?
Otherworld connecting to the multiverse doesn't mean that Yggdrasil is the multiverse, just like someone being omnipresent over a room with portals over the multiverse doesn't make that someone is omnipresent over the multiverse. If you shoot an infinite amount of fire to a place that connects to the infinite multiverse then no sh*t everything will burn as everything will be reached, but that's not a 2-A as the space between universe wasn't affected, nor their past, the place connecting everything with everything did all the work.
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I'm sorry, but you're not the person who misleads the context and once said that Eternity isn't the multiverse also making nitpicking and huge personal biased interpretations like this one?
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Well, I gave reasons for Yggdrasil not having "possibly infinite universes" inside. I can debate that with whoever replies, and if no one does it then that bit should be removed with a note specifying the context behind it. I could even make a small blog copying & pasting what I wrote here.
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Well, if it would significantly create disorder and change in our current Marvel Comics scaling system, you would have to explain it all in an easy to understand manner in a single post, so I can call for other staff and knowledgeable members to help out with evaluations.
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Odin's profile has 3 reasons for being 2-A:
Which I mostly explained above why I disagree with here and here, and only the former comment linked replies to reasons in our profiles, so that's already in 1 post.
Which has nothing to do with the Durability of the tree, it's just its magic.
Which is weird; Dormammu is "2-A, possibly Low 1-C", if Odin scales but is weaker then he would be at that same level, you can't miss a "possibly" due to downscaling, either you scale or you don't. And there is no source to how they would scale and in what ways Odin was shown to be weaker.
But then Odinforce Thor scales to Knull and the Phoenix Force, and the same scan that makes Thor scale to Phoenix also states that Odin scales to Phoenix. So, no stat changes, but some stuff needs to be removed and altered.
Which I mostly explained above why I disagree with here and here, and only the former comment linked replies to reasons in our profiles, so that's already in 1 post.
Which has nothing to do with the Durability of the tree, it's just its magic.
Which is weird; Dormammu is "2-A, possibly Low 1-C", if Odin scales but is weaker then he would be at that same level, you can't miss a "possibly" due to downscaling, either you scale or you don't. And there is no source to how they would scale and in what ways Odin was shown to be weaker.
But then Odinforce Thor scales to Knull and the Phoenix Force, and the same scan that makes Thor scale to Phoenix also states that Odin scales to Phoenix. So, no stat changes, but some stuff needs to be removed and altered.
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Agree with removing all 3
1. If they scale to the Phoenix Force, shouldn't Odinforce Thor and Odin be "2-A, possibly Low 1-C"?
2. I'm sorry, but that statement seems to be about normal Thor, not Odinforce Thor. It doesn't say Odinforce Thor (though it does say Odin).
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1. Well, the way we word stats for comic characters is a bit f*cked up due to being unintuitive (With things like "normally" missing next to a stat and such); Phoenix being "Unknown normally. At least 2-A, possibly Low 1-C at peak" I would think means in reality "2-A normally, up to possibly Low 1-C at her peak". As in, she's 2-A mostly, and maybe at her peak she's Low 1-C, otherwise her peak is still 2-A. So to kill her you would just need to be 2-A. Also I have no idea what that "Unknown normally. " represents and how it bounces from the rest of the stats.
2. At that time Thor had the Odinforce. Profiles should reflect this better by saying so and linking when he got it.
2. At that time Thor had the Odinforce. Profiles should reflect this better by saying so and linking when he got it.
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The profiles need better wording to state that and similar stuff, like how a 2-A feat for the Cosmic Cubes is rendering Eternity, who as we all know is also 2-A/Low 1-C, catatonic.
Agreed, because without context it seemed to me like we just assumed he had the Odinforce as to not make the feat an outlier.
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Agreed. Odin being powerful enough to kill the Phoenix Force should be enough to scale to its 2-A rating, at the very least
It's actually cited on Zeus' profile
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@Qawsedf234 @Sandman31 @Firestorm808 @LordTracer @Maverick_Zero_X @Lightning_XXI @Deagonx @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @CrimsonStarFallen @Dark-Carioca
I would greatly appreciate further input here:
I would greatly appreciate further input here:
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"The asgardian world is kind of a map, okay ? The nine worlds you recognize as being a part of Yggdrasil are just the tip...of a maybe infinite iceberg. What you know as worlds, are universes, complex, discrete, fully formed"
"...You might believe there is only 9 worlds, but brother, I'm here to tell you, there's more, and they're hungry"
However the "maybe Infinite" quote seems more likely to be a theory based on "there's so many, maybe it's infinite" instead of an actual possibility, so I wouldn't take it as means to say it's truly infinite, just...vast, and filled with many, many "worlds", unsure if that's 2-C or 2-B, but it ainda 2-A
I also agree with scaling Odin to 2-A based on the Phoenix's statement is a far more concrete evidence, and should be used for his AP
"...You might believe there is only 9 worlds, but brother, I'm here to tell you, there's more, and they're hungry"
Considering he directly says this "worlds" are "universes", we can safely say there are more than 9, and his statement about the 9 being the tip of the iceberg doesn't strike to me anything related to being used as a map to find universes outside of it, that's a interpretation, sure, but it takes way more than just the simple meaning of this statement, that being, 9 universes being the tip (meaning, that are far more) of the iceberg (that is Yggdrasil)
However the "maybe Infinite" quote seems more likely to be a theory based on "there's so many, maybe it's infinite" instead of an actual possibility, so I wouldn't take it as means to say it's truly infinite, just...vast, and filled with many, many "worlds", unsure if that's 2-C or 2-B, but it ainda 2-A
I also agree with scaling Odin to 2-A based on the Phoenix's statement is a far more concrete evidence, and should be used for his AP
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9 universes are the tip, but the Yggdrasil isn't the iceberg because that's not stated, Yggdrasil & its 9 universes are the tip, and more universes exist beyond them. Thor already knows of the multiverse and doesn't take seriously what the guy's saying, it's not like he's revealing Yggdrasil to have infinite universes (which would go against what Thor knows and everyone in the 9 worlds know), he's saying information Thor already knows.
Also you misquoted it, it's "The asgardian world tree is kind of a map, okay ?" Meaning you can't just say "doesn't strike to me anything related to being used as a map" because it literally is kind of a map. Being a map to other universes=/=Being those other universes.
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I did some reading for context and it's even less legit than that. In issue 619 Odin explains how the tree was created with 9 universes, that it was a tree of light and so other darkness felt attracted to it to attack it 'cause they're evi. Get it? That darkness, those other universes already existed before the tree, they could not possibly be part of the tree, and this is the same as what that known scan says, he talks about how universes like glasses of water, that Thor, by moving Asgard into Earth, moved the "heart"/water of his universe into another universe/glass, and some other universes with evil beings will come to attack due to being "hungry". He's just warning him of an invasion in a stupid way, not stating Yggdrasil to have more universes than 9 as new lore that couldn't be kept 3 issues into the future.
I read the comic for context. The statement itself is fine (Dormammu boasts about being "the equal of Odin or Zeus". Dormammu is weakened at the time but I would think he means his full-power self), but it makes the scaling nonsensical. Dormammu can solo the Celestial race, Odin clearly cannot, Dormammu can kill himself & Eternity, Odin is some layers below Eternity (which is a lot to say).
It's also possible that Dormammu didn't mean his peak in the Dark Dimension but his peak within the main universe, where he's weaker.
Since it's a bit of a throw away comment and more solid scaling contradicts this, I would dismiss Dormammu being equal to Odin or Zeus.
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