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Wait so...my Silver Surfer calc will finally be accepted as a Mid-End? PRAISE THE -LORD- GOD-EMPEROR OF MANKIND!!
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Marvel and DC's 4-B
- Thread starter Graf_Thorsdottir
- Start date
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- dc comics marvel comics
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Should I repost the calc so that other calc group members can further decide on which end should be used? And also you should likely add Blue Marvel to that Megafoe list since he was capable of stomping two High 5-A characters, one 4-B character and the immediately after that wen on to fight Sentry evenly - he dven managed to send him into orbit amd knock him out with a punch and by the end of their fight they were both highly exhausted and fell unconscious at the same time.
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Terafoe was rejected yes but the other values were not.DarkDragonMedeus said:
Stefano4444
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Actually it was never be discussed in the first place since only you had commented in the thread.Antvasima said:
Anyway, for who don't know what i'm talking about:
https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1510056
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I've commented on the thread btw.
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Without scans showing where he was, then no.
Stefano4444
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Agree with most calcs, expect for 4 of them and i would explain why, free to correct me if i'm wrong.
1) The Infinite Mass Punch calculation.
Physics 101. The faster an object moves, the more mass it attains. At Lightspeed my fist hits like a White Dwarf Star.
Wally West clearly stated that at the speed of light his first strike with the power of a white dwarf, he never say that at lightspeed he had the relativistic mass of a White Dwarf.
And the fact that he need to be lightspeed means that the laws of relativity cannot be apply in this particular situation, otherwise Wally would have in actuality performed a High Universal feat since for moving at lightspeed (while having the laws of relativity still working on) he would had need to generate an infinite amount of energy.
The calculation would have be correct only if Wally had stated that he was moving below the speed of light, but that not the case, which means that the feat would be Star level+ at most (since a White Dwarf would had the mass of the Sun).
2) Sentry and World War Hulk in the MegaFoe range.
Sentry is stated to having the power of a million exploding suns, not stars or supernovas but suns and the last time i check an exploding sun is much weaker than a supernova explosion, if the statement is to be taken literally then Sentry would remain in the KiloFoe range.
GBE of the Sun = 6.276E+41 Joules.
6.276E+41 * 1,000,000 = 6.276E+47 Joules aka 6.276 KiloFoe.
3) Mogo illuminates a Dying Universe.
The calculation itself may be correct (and i'm not argue that) but the result seen to be far too high, every other feats from the DC were in the Foe range and KiloFoe range only.
Unless Mogo is consistently show to be much stronger than the likes of Hal Jordan and Superman, i feel like this could be taken as an outlier.
But that is more like my opinion than anything else, i may be wrong for what all i know.
4) Thor shaking the stars while hitting the God Bomb.
Having 2 Mjolnirs at the same time wouldn't exponentially increase the strength of Thor instead of just a few times? How we can be sure that Thor was only 2 times stronger than usual in that instance?
The last time 2 Mjolnir where be used at the same time resulted to this and i have heard that Jane Foster (Female Thor) with 2 Mjolnir was able to defeat a Skyfather level begin (although i'm not 100% sure if this is true or not).
1) The Infinite Mass Punch calculation.
Physics 101. The faster an object moves, the more mass it attains. At Lightspeed my fist hits like a White Dwarf Star.
Wally West clearly stated that at the speed of light his first strike with the power of a white dwarf, he never say that at lightspeed he had the relativistic mass of a White Dwarf.
And the fact that he need to be lightspeed means that the laws of relativity cannot be apply in this particular situation, otherwise Wally would have in actuality performed a High Universal feat since for moving at lightspeed (while having the laws of relativity still working on) he would had need to generate an infinite amount of energy.
The calculation would have be correct only if Wally had stated that he was moving below the speed of light, but that not the case, which means that the feat would be Star level+ at most (since a White Dwarf would had the mass of the Sun).
2) Sentry and World War Hulk in the MegaFoe range.
Sentry is stated to having the power of a million exploding suns, not stars or supernovas but suns and the last time i check an exploding sun is much weaker than a supernova explosion, if the statement is to be taken literally then Sentry would remain in the KiloFoe range.
GBE of the Sun = 6.276E+41 Joules.
6.276E+41 * 1,000,000 = 6.276E+47 Joules aka 6.276 KiloFoe.
3) Mogo illuminates a Dying Universe.
The calculation itself may be correct (and i'm not argue that) but the result seen to be far too high, every other feats from the DC were in the Foe range and KiloFoe range only.
Unless Mogo is consistently show to be much stronger than the likes of Hal Jordan and Superman, i feel like this could be taken as an outlier.
But that is more like my opinion than anything else, i may be wrong for what all i know.
4) Thor shaking the stars while hitting the God Bomb.
Having 2 Mjolnirs at the same time wouldn't exponentially increase the strength of Thor instead of just a few times? How we can be sure that Thor was only 2 times stronger than usual in that instance?
The last time 2 Mjolnir where be used at the same time resulted to this and i have heard that Jane Foster (Female Thor) with 2 Mjolnir was able to defeat a Skyfather level begin (although i'm not 100% sure if this is true or not).
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Jane has Rulk-level jobber aura, so I won't count on it
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No. The Flash moves at almost the speed of light, so near it it practically has no difference.
An exploding star is a supernova. We are even shown it in a comic. And some comics do use the term as well.
No, because Mofo is sometimes stated to be the strongest Green Lantern. It's why only be could do it.
She Thor isn't a good example of anything that makes sense.
An exploding star is a supernova. We are even shown it in a comic. And some comics do use the term as well.
No, because Mofo is sometimes stated to be the strongest Green Lantern. It's why only be could do it.
She Thor isn't a good example of anything that makes sense.
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I don't think my question was ever answered, so I'll ask again...
Would Atrocitus, Hal Jordan, Sinestro, and other Lanterns scale to the high end or the low end of the IMP calc?
Would Atrocitus, Hal Jordan, Sinestro, and other Lanterns scale to the high end or the low end of the IMP calc?
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,179
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Matthew Schroeder
"No. The Flash moves at almost the speed of light, so near it it practically has no difference."
But Wally specify stated that at lightspeed is where he can hit with the force of a white dwarf.
The entire calculation is based to the assumption that Flash's had the striking power of a white dwarf that moves at near the speed of light, but that's not what Wally had say in the scan.
He need to be lightspeed in the first place for strike with the force of a white dwarf, aka he reach the mass of a white dwarf by moving at lightspeed.
Due of this factor, the feat cannot be calculated by using the laws of relativity.
"An exploding star is a supernova. We are even shown it in a comic. And some comics do use the term as well."
But Sentry's power is always described as one million exploding suns, not exploding stars.
And we can agree that a supernova's explosion and sun's explosion are not the same thing.
"No, because Mofo is sometimes stated to be the strongest Green Lantern. It's why only be could do it."
So i guess this feat can be apply only to Mofo himself?
"She Thor isn't a good example of anything that makes sense."
Maybe she is not the best example, but what about the clash between Thor and Thunderstrike?
"No. The Flash moves at almost the speed of light, so near it it practically has no difference."
But Wally specify stated that at lightspeed is where he can hit with the force of a white dwarf.
The entire calculation is based to the assumption that Flash's had the striking power of a white dwarf that moves at near the speed of light, but that's not what Wally had say in the scan.
He need to be lightspeed in the first place for strike with the force of a white dwarf, aka he reach the mass of a white dwarf by moving at lightspeed.
Due of this factor, the feat cannot be calculated by using the laws of relativity.
"An exploding star is a supernova. We are even shown it in a comic. And some comics do use the term as well."
But Sentry's power is always described as one million exploding suns, not exploding stars.
And we can agree that a supernova's explosion and sun's explosion are not the same thing.
"No, because Mofo is sometimes stated to be the strongest Green Lantern. It's why only be could do it."
So i guess this feat can be apply only to Mofo himself?
"She Thor isn't a good example of anything that makes sense."
Maybe she is not the best example, but what about the clash between Thor and Thunderstrike?
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The word "sun" is synonymous with "star". I have no idea where you got the notion that stars and suns aren't the exact same thing. If Marvel specified "one million exploding Suns", with a capitalized "S" as to imply one million exploding variants of our own yellow star, that'd be one thing--as our Sun has less mass than a star would at the end of its lifespan--but scientifically speaking, there is no difference between the words "sun" and "star". They're the exact same thing.Stefano4444 said:
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Stop bringing up the single speed of light statement. Every other instance uses a hair's breath away. It is functionally lightspeed anyway, the difference is like 0.001c
One million exploding suns / stars is the same thing. No need to lose yourself on semantics. The meaning is the same. One million supernovas.
Yes, only applied to Mogo.
Are you reffering the the universal clash? Because that's an outlier.
One million exploding suns / stars is the same thing. No need to lose yourself on semantics. The meaning is the same. One million supernovas.
Yes, only applied to Mogo.
Are you reffering the the universal clash? Because that's an outlier.
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,179
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Korudo Daio
You're not wrong but either i'm am, stars can be anything from the brown dwarfs to neutron stars, and we can both agree that the destroy Sun is not the same thing as destroy a brown dwarf or a neutron star.
You're not wrong but either i'm am, stars can be anything from the brown dwarfs to neutron stars, and we can both agree that the destroy Sun is not the same thing as destroy a brown dwarf or a neutron star.
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The average star is about a third of the Sun.
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,179
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Matthew Schroeder
Stop bringing up the single speed of light statement. Every other instance uses a hair's breath away. It is functionally lightspeed anyway, the difference is like 0.001c
No, i'm not going to stop doing that, especially when both low and high end is based to that statement, which is clearly taken out of context.
Flash say that he hit with the force of a white dwarf while at lightspeed, not at half the speed of light or at 0.9999% the speed of light, but at the speed of light.
Relavity cannot be apply, not with the white dwarf statement, only with the small moon statement.
And yes there is a massive difference between moving at 0.9999999% at the speed of light and moving at the speed of light, since there is the little fact that you need INFINITE ENERGY.
If you could move at lightspeed while the laws of relativity still work on you, you would be High Universe level.
One million exploding suns / stars is the same thing. No need to lose yourself on semantics. The meaning is the same. One million supernovas.
Your line of reasoning is stupid, if Sentry power was instead described to having the power of "One million exploding planets", what would make more sense, that the statement was referring to planets like Mercury or planets like Jupiter?
The correct answer is neither of them, it had more sense that it was talking about planets like Earth, since when we think about planets in general we think of something like our World.
The same can be apply with the original statement if not more since it always use the term Suns instead of Stars, which should remove all doubts about what kind of stars it is referring, but even if it was "One million exploding stars" it would make more sense that it was talking about to stars like our Sun instead of actual Supernovas.
Stop bringing up the single speed of light statement. Every other instance uses a hair's breath away. It is functionally lightspeed anyway, the difference is like 0.001c
No, i'm not going to stop doing that, especially when both low and high end is based to that statement, which is clearly taken out of context.
Flash say that he hit with the force of a white dwarf while at lightspeed, not at half the speed of light or at 0.9999% the speed of light, but at the speed of light.
Relavity cannot be apply, not with the white dwarf statement, only with the small moon statement.
And yes there is a massive difference between moving at 0.9999999% at the speed of light and moving at the speed of light, since there is the little fact that you need INFINITE ENERGY.
If you could move at lightspeed while the laws of relativity still work on you, you would be High Universe level.
One million exploding suns / stars is the same thing. No need to lose yourself on semantics. The meaning is the same. One million supernovas.
Your line of reasoning is stupid, if Sentry power was instead described to having the power of "One million exploding planets", what would make more sense, that the statement was referring to planets like Mercury or planets like Jupiter?
The correct answer is neither of them, it had more sense that it was talking about planets like Earth, since when we think about planets in general we think of something like our World.
The same can be apply with the original statement if not more since it always use the term Suns instead of Stars, which should remove all doubts about what kind of stars it is referring, but even if it was "One million exploding stars" it would make more sense that it was talking about to stars like our Sun instead of actual Supernovas.
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Relativity can be applied. You're arguing semantics. It's not actually Lightspeed. They use all principles of Relativistic KE. It isn't full lightspeed.
No it isn't. That's a false equivalence. Only larger stars can naturally explode. It cannot be referring to a sun like our own. Also suns and stars are freaking synonyms.
No it isn't. That's a false equivalence. Only larger stars can naturally explode. It cannot be referring to a sun like our own. Also suns and stars are freaking synonyms.
ShakeResounding
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What about those in Marvel, such as Spider-Man's Captain Universe key, that are somewhat ambiguously 4-B? Do we assume they're still comparable to other 4-B's in their range, or only accept the feats they show?
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@Stefano
Not sure why you gave me Kudos, the 1 foe supernova yield takes into account an average for all stars already. It doesn't change the result.
Not sure why you gave me Kudos, the 1 foe supernova yield takes into account an average for all stars already. It doesn't change the result.
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,179
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Matthew Schroeder
Relativity can be applied. You're arguing semantics. It's not actually Lightspeed. They use all principles of Relativistic KE. It isn't full lightspeed.
Physics 101. The faster an object moves, the more mass it attains. At Lightspeed my fist hits like a White Dwarf Star.
Tell me again how it isn't full lightspeed?
No it isn't. That's a false equivalence. Only larger stars can naturally explode. It cannot be referring to a sun like our own.
The statement always refer to Suns, unless show otherwise we can only assume stars like our Sun and not actual Supernovas.
Or at this point, why don't assume that it referring to Hypernovas.
Also suns and stars are freaking synonyms.
Stars can be anything from brown dwarfs to neutron stars, you think those two objects are the same? That would like say a dolphin is the same thing as a whale.
Relativity can be applied. You're arguing semantics. It's not actually Lightspeed. They use all principles of Relativistic KE. It isn't full lightspeed.
Physics 101. The faster an object moves, the more mass it attains. At Lightspeed my fist hits like a White Dwarf Star.
Tell me again how it isn't full lightspeed?
No it isn't. That's a false equivalence. Only larger stars can naturally explode. It cannot be referring to a sun like our own.
The statement always refer to Suns, unless show otherwise we can only assume stars like our Sun and not actual Supernovas.
Or at this point, why don't assume that it referring to Hypernovas.
Also suns and stars are freaking synonyms.
Stars can be anything from brown dwarfs to neutron stars, you think those two objects are the same? That would like say a dolphin is the same thing as a whale.
Stefano4444
He/Him- 6,179
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Even you have say that most stars are smaller than our Sun, and stars like our own are the ones considered of medium size, why exactly the power for destroy an average star is now 1 Foe? Hell, most large stars need less than 1 Foe for be destroyed.Kepekley23 said:
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@Stefano
Every other scene says almost lightspeed, and in fact at lightspeed it wouldn't have the mass of a Dwarf Star. So it isn't.
Suns = Stars. Stop focusing so much on semantics. The average natural explosion of a Star is 1Foe, so that's what we use.
This ain't rocket science.
Every other scene says almost lightspeed, and in fact at lightspeed it wouldn't have the mass of a Dwarf Star. So it isn't.
Suns = Stars. Stop focusing so much on semantics. The average natural explosion of a Star is 1Foe, so that's what we use.
This ain't rocket science.
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The usage of the word "sun" indicates:
1. The stars are stars. (...)
2. The stars are suns like our own, making the feat better.
No other option.
1. The stars are stars. (...)
2. The stars are suns like our own, making the feat better.
No other option.
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I'd like to give a word on the "million exploding suns" feat.
I completely agree with Matt here.
An "exploding sun," in my opinion, clearly refers to a supernova, which has the value of usually 1 FOE. If "exploding sun" did not mean supernova, but rather just the power to destroy a star (which doesn't make sense to me) the feat would be far lower.
Also @Kep the stars being our Sun wouldn't even work for this. Our Sun will not undergo supernova, but will just grow into a red giant. Nor would 90% of stars in the galaxy; for this to work we have to assume he refers to supernovas, as only certain stars are capable of going supernova.
I completely agree with Matt here.
An "exploding sun," in my opinion, clearly refers to a supernova, which has the value of usually 1 FOE. If "exploding sun" did not mean supernova, but rather just the power to destroy a star (which doesn't make sense to me) the feat would be far lower.
Also @Kep the stars being our Sun wouldn't even work for this. Our Sun will not undergo supernova, but will just grow into a red giant. Nor would 90% of stars in the galaxy; for this to work we have to assume he refers to supernovas, as only certain stars are capable of going supernova.
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I know the Sun will collapse into a white dwarf. I was saying that, if one were to assume the Sun'd blow up, the feat would be better because it'd require relativistic KE.
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Found the issue for Surfer's SS feat, though not sure how much it can help
http://***************.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-1987/Issue-120?id=11588
The feat is in the final page, exploding celestial body in the middle is indeed a star
But that's all I can gather
http://***************.to/Comic/Silver-Surfer-1987/Issue-120?id=11588
The feat is in the final page, exploding celestial body in the middle is indeed a star
But that's all I can gather
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From the looks of it it seems like Norton was even further way since since flew past 7 or so planets when Uni-Lord captured him.
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So from what I gathered DC's 4-Bs are agreed to be 615 kiloFoe, and now we just need to re-evaluate Surfer's feat, correct?
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I disagree with DC 4-Bs being 615 kilofoe. It's a little outlierish compared to every other feat except Mogos, and Mogo would godstomp people like Hal, Supes or Wondy
Darkanine's calc had a low end of 262 foe which is much more consistent IMO since IMP is Superman's strongest attack.
Lastly, the IMP's low end calc (the one that was actually accepted as far as I can tell) has nearly identical values (1.02 kiloFoe and 1.08 kiloFoe) to Superman surviving the collision of Apokolips and New Genesis, and both were tough feats that makes his more casual and weaker feats (ie, 565 Foe) more consistent
Darkanine's calc had a low end of 262 foe which is much more consistent IMO since IMP is Superman's strongest attack.
Lastly, the IMP's low end calc (the one that was actually accepted as far as I can tell) has nearly identical values (1.02 kiloFoe and 1.08 kiloFoe) to Superman surviving the collision of Apokolips and New Genesis, and both were tough feats that makes his more casual and weaker feats (ie, 565 Foe) more consistent
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