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Marvel and DC's 4-B

Graf_Thorsdottir

Graf_Thorsdottir

2,417
400
Not sure if this should be in Q&A or CRT, but oh well

I'm not gonna beat around the bush.

We need to decide on a numerical value for the AP and Durability of Solar System level characters of Marvel and DC Comics

There have been many calcs of different results. And the gaps between those results can be quite huge to the point of outlier-ish. This has not been settled for a while and has become a problem for VS match-ups.

So I'll post all DC and Marvel calcs for 4-B characters and hopefully our experts can decide on a number.

Note: Before you bring it up, Sentry and World War Hulk get an automatic 1 megaFoe (10^50 J) because they are 1,000,000 x supernova. So they are not included.

Marvel
Silver Surfer incinerates a solar system:

High End: 4.2114462e+56 Joules or 4.2114462 TeraFoe

Mid End: 3.8781406e+49 Joules or 387.81406 KiloFoe

Low End: 1.5778449e+46 Joules or 157.78449 Foe

Black Bolt's scream:

Final Black Bolt Scream: 3.73574241999E+45 joules or 37.36 Foe

Energy Black Bolt released fighting Vulcan (minus the scream): 5.54335972186E+45 joules or 55 Foe

Total T-Bomb shockwave energy: 1.20507820002E+46 joules or 120 Foe

Carol converts at least 81% of a black hole into energy:

  • Minimum mass of a black hole is 5 solar masses => 5 x (1.9855e30) = 9.9275e30 kg
  • 81% of that = 8.041275e30 kg
  • Converts into energy, we get 7.2271375498969E+47 J or 7.3 kiloFoe as a low end
Thor and Beta Ray Bill destroy Surtur's portal: 2.7625e46 J or 276.25 Foe as a low end for each

Thor restored Arkon's planet's rings: 2.944550669e46j, or 294.4550669 Foe

Thor shaking the stars while wielding 2 Mjolnirs: 1.32195990526E+48 J or 13.2 kiloFoe. Halving it we get 6.6 kiloFoe

DC
Wally West's Infinite Mass Punch:

High End: 6.15900e49 Joules or 615 kiloFoe

Low End: 1.08e47 Joules or 1.08 KiloFoe

Superman throwing a compressed Solar System:

High End: 5.6548526984352e+46 joules or 565.48 Foe

Mid End: 3.926981040579868e+46 or 392 Foe

Low End: 9.817452601450656e+45 joules or 98 Foe

In the comments Darkanine also added 2 more results of 262.7 Foe and 6.9 kiloFoe

Superman surviving the collision of Apokolips and New Genesis: 1.0206e+47 joules or 1.02 kiloFoe as a low end

Mogo illuminates dying universe: 9.892680728e51j, or 98.92680728 MegaFoe
 
Doesn't superman also scale to the infinite mass punch?
 
Well, the Terafoe feat was rejected for obvious reasons, so probably not that one. The Two Mjolnir or Carol's feat both look good though.

As for DC, Infinite Mass Punch's low end is definitely legit. And possibly high end for some of the stronger 4-Bs, but otherwise the 6.9 Kilofoe feat is also great.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
No. The calcs are related to numerous 4-B feats, albeit diffferent in scale. Keep them.
Click to expand...
Could we at least have them on the DC verse page instead of Superman's page? Cause having more than one solar system feat calced in his profile is going to confuse plenty of people that go to his profile.
 
AssaltWaffle made a comment on the Silver Surfer feat explaining why it can't be used. It's not really a 4-B feat the way he calc'd it.
 
High-end using Relativistic KE. The low-end is just an alternative method that used some weird method that I'm not familiar with.
 
Matthew Schroeder said:
High-end using Relativistic KE. The low-end is just an alternative method that used some weird method that I'm not familiar with.
Click to expand...
So, would Atrocitus. Hal Jordan, and the other Lanterns scale to the high end of IMP, too?
 
M+S=Greatness said:
Just leaving this here to follow this.
Click to expand...
To follow a thread you can just click the "Follow" button in the top right hand corner of the OP. This avoids clutter from "following" posts.
 
Also, just a note on the Infinite Mass Punch, the high end is still a lowball. The 0.6 M amount for mass is pretty low. The only White Dwarf I found as low as 0.6 solar masses was WD 1145+017. Other white dwarves have 0.75, 0.81, or even up to 1.4 solar masses (though 1.4 is the absolute max).
 
I think that we should keep all accepted supporting feats in the profiles.

However, I think that Carol's black hole feat was rejected as unreliable.
 
Well, the calc group rejected it as far as I remember.
 
So I'm assuming most mid-tier 4-Bs from these franchises will be getting triple digit kilofoe results, whereas super high-end Marvel guys like Sentry and WW Hulk will be getting low megafoe?
 
I do not think that we can make much of a distinction between most 4-B characters, and that we should continue to mention the supporting feats, including the Sentry having the power of a million exploding stars.
 
There is a distinction tho.

Triple Digit KiloFoe is very high-end for the Marvel cast, it has to be said, specially with the Sentry's 1 MegaFoe one-shotting 4-B characters.
 
Technically the AP of Supernovas can very, but 1 foe is seen as the bare minimum iirc, meaning strength of one million supernovas is 1 Megafoe at bare minimum.
 
I personally think that the best values are the triple-quadruple digit foe ends, as they are overall more consistent with a wider variety of characters, such as Black Bolt, and several of them that aren't up for subjective interpretation are in the hundreds of foe (and come from relatively weak characters), the ones that are (such as the IMP calc) having low ends that still keep everything reasonably consistent as Thor afaik is > Blackbolt
 
About Surfer: Is there no way of accurately finding out where he was?

About Thor: Was it ever stated that having two hammers "doubles" Thor's power? I might not remember it correctly, but if that's not the case then I don't think his feat with 2 hammers should scale to him with 1 hammer. Fiction, most of the time doesn't simply treat 5 and 5 to be a 10. Sometimes the increase is exponential, arbitrary or unquantifiable rather than a simple addition.

Other than that, it looks good to me.
 
One more thing.

The difference in both the IMP calcs is huge. Which one are we using? IMHO just looking at all those other values, the lower end one seems to make more sense in regards with consistency.
 
Well, it depends on which end that was preferred by the calc group when they evaluated the relevant calculation.
 
Figured I might as well mention this since this thread is all about clarification (and I just added this scan to his page), but the low-end for unrestricted Ghost Rider would also be in the same megaFoe range as Sentry and WW Hulk. Doctor Strange noted that an unrestricted Ghost Rider would be capable of defeating the Hulk and was basically "boundless" and "godlike". He was also notably more scared of Johnny Blaze losing control to Zarathos than he was about WW Hulk.

This makes sense, considering how easily an unrestricted Ghost Rider dealt with the Avengers, all at once.
 
There might be some other characters that scale to Sentry/WW Hulk level that I'm forgetting, but if anyone remembers them, that would also probably be important for clarification purposes.
 
Well, I have almost given up on trying to make sense of Marvel scaling, as it does not technically make any sense.

Matthew is better at straightening it out than I am, even if I have read a much greater amount of Marvel comics over the years.
 
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