Mario Joins the Low 1-C Gang!?

[liluzivert]

As you can see from the title of this thread. Yes, we are gonna try and upgrade all those who scale to the Void to Low 1-C. The Void was going to destroy the entire cosmology, which is currently rated 2-B due to scaling to the Dream Depot. So this thread will talk about an upgrade to the cosmology, as well as other abilities to add to the Mario series.



Cutout World

The Cutout World from Paper Mario: Color Splash is a place where Mario travels to when using the Cutout ability. With this, he can transcend dimensions and cut pieces of spacetime like a background piece, then he can restore the pieces afterward.

It's stated that the Cutout World transcends dimensions, space and time:

The translation for "transcend" in the Japanese version of the game is 超える (Koeru). There are two versions of this kanji. 越える means "to cross, to go outside", while 超える means "to surpass, to be more than". And the second version is used throughout the game to describe Cutout. So we know they're talking about being superior, not going outside or crossing space and time.

"Now I'll use my powers to transcend dimensions and cut the scenery"

The game also uses the term 次元 (Jigen), which refers to mathematical dimensions.

Scissors that transcend dimensions and can cut the sky... what will appear there?

But if you're still skeptical, 次元 has only referred to spatial dimensions in Mario. Therefore we know they aren't talking about other universes.

Now you can use the super cool ancient magic trick "Dimensional Move"
Flip, an ability that lets Mario "flip" from 2D to 3D is called "Jigen Waza" for "Dimensional Move"

"Dimen Kukan" or "Dimentio Space" is the name of Dimension D in Japanese

I'll lead you... to a world located at the opposite side.
Even in the English version of Color Splash, other universes are called "parallel universe" instead of "dimension".

Going back to what was said earlier, Huey states that Mario can cut his world as if it were scenery or a background image. And he can cut it out as if it were made with paper, which signifies that he's viewing space and time as an insignificant wallpaper. There's also a similar ability within the series named Paperize, which functions similar to Cutout, as it lets Mario view his world as a sheet of paper instead of a real place. This one appears in Sticker Star.

In short, the Cutout World is a place that:

- Transcends dimensions

- Transcends space and time

- Lets Mario view his world as a fictional background piece

With that said, Mario should get Higher Dimensional Existence and Higher Dimensional Manipulation with Cutout. As well as Low 1-C with the Pure Hearts. (Keep in mind that the Cutout ability does not scale to Low 1-C, just the Void)



Immeasurable Speed

The Void exists within every universe in Super Paper Mario, and it's constantly growing with each moment. It can grow faster in separate universes like the Sammer Kingdom, which would require Immeasurable speed, as it would have to not only bypass the space and time of each universe but also be able to grow differently within each location. Since the Chaos Heart created the void, it would naturally scale. Mario and his friends can move inside the void, as well as reverse the Void's affects with the Pure Hearts. Dimentio was also going to destroy all worlds and create new ones, which implies he can move after the Void's destruction. Meaning that those who scale to the Void should get Immeasurable.



Since this is a huge upgrade, let's pray things don't become toxic on this thread...

 

[sanicspood]

this should be good

 

[y3p_owo]

Some of the pictures/screenshots look like they're either broken or smth. Anyways, I'm following.

 

[TheShieldToronto76]

Following this

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Woo boy this is gonna be great.

I'll save my thoughts on Tier 1 for later.

Pretty sure Immeasurable Speed is good though.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Pretty sure Immeasurable Speed is good though.

I mean... nevermind.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

I think I know what you were gonna say. I'm just playing by the site's rules.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Well, yeah, but the justification doesn’t mention how time was effected, only how it grew in some space (universes) faster (vague) than others.

I not very smart and not understand very well what makes the speed immeasurable. Could the justification be better touched upon?

 

[liluzivert]

Well, yeah, but the justification doesn’t mention how time was effected, only how it grew in some space (universes) faster (vague) than others.

I not very smart and not understand very well what makes the speed immeasurable. Could the justification be better touched upon?

To exist in different universes at the same time would require immeasurable, and you'd have to bypass space and time to do so. If you're talking about links, I can provide those later.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

To exist in different universes at the same time would require immeasurable, and you'd have to bypass space and time to do so. If you're talking about links, I can provide those later.

I'm pretty sure that's acausalty or night OmNI presence the last time I checked.

But that is pretty much not a speed feat and more of a state of existence thing imo

 

[ElixirBlue]

To exist in different universes at the same time would require immeasurable, and you'd have to bypass space and time to do so

Yes, that explanation about space & time is much better and should be in the OP

I'm pretty sure that's acausalty or night OmNI presence the last time I checked.

But that is pretty much not a speed feat and more of a state of existence thing imo

It’s growing over time, so it’s not simply constant state of existing as omnipresent.

 

[Moritzva]

Transcending dimensions is very weak proof when it's literally just cutting apart paper scenery,. Simply physical, three-dimensional objects being cut.

I need far more context for the time/space statement, and a better explanation for immeasurable.

 

[liluzivert]

Transcending dimensions is very weak proof when it's literally just cutting apart paper scenery,. Simply physical, three-dimensional objects being cut

Did you even... read the page? It's stated he goes to a higher dimension and that he exceeds time and space, and it's clear as that's what the kanji says. The visuals just support the idea that he's superior as he views it as a background image, which lines up with everything else said about it.

He is transcending his universe to do so, and this also tells me you didn't even read the thread either as he's cutting out the entirety of his world to create a new pathway, and then restores it when he's finished.

I need far more context for the time/space statement, and a better explanation for immeasurable.

I added a new scan, the toad is talking about the scissors of the Cutout ability, and I changed up the reason for immeasurable too.

 

[ElixirBlue]

Did you even... read the page? It's stated he goes to a higher dimension and that he exceeds time and space, and it's clear as that's what the kanji says. The visuals just support the idea that he's superior as he views it as a background image, which lines up with everything else said about it.

He is transcending his universe to do so, and this also tells me you didn't even read the thread either as he's cutting out the entirety of his world to create a new pathway, and then restores it when he's finished.

Dude, don’t immediately attack the staff’s character off the rip. Thats tends to happen as the thread goes but doing it at the beginning creates toxicity.

 

[liluzivert]

Dude, don’t immediately attacked the staff’s character off the rip. Thats tends to happen as the thread goes but doing it at the beginning creates toxicity.

Sorry but it feels like he skimmed over most of the context

 

[Moritzva]

Did you even... read the page? It's stated he goes to a higher dimension and that he exceeds time and space, and it's clear as that's what the kanji says. The visuals just support the idea that he's superior as he views it as a background image, which lines up with everything else said about it.

He is transcending his universe to do so, and this also tells me you didn't even read the thread either as he's cutting out the entirety of his world to create a new pathway, and then restores it when he's finished.



I added a new scan, the toad is talking about the scissors of the Cutout ability, and I changed up the reason for immeasurable too.

First off, context is important. A simple statement doesn't do much, and considering we're talking about Paper Mario, it's good to have context to consider if something is an outlier, extravagant or flowery language, etc. I haven't kept up with new Paper Mario games as much, but I don't remember a feat above Tier 8, much less Low 1-C.

I'm asking for clarification.

 

[liluzivert]

First off, context is important. A simple statement doesn't do much, and considering we're talking about Paper Mario, it's good to have context to consider if something is an outlier, extravagant or flowery language, etc. I haven't kept up with new Paper Mario games as much, but I don't remember a feat above Tier 8, much less Low 1-C.

Well, the context is clear. The Cutout World is a 5D area, and thus would have been destroyed by the void in the process. In fact, Mario currently has a 2-B feat due to the void in general, which was created by the Chaos Heart. And Mario and his friends use the pure hearts to stop Super Dimentio from destroying everything in the cosmology. This stuff is already on the profiles, so I'm not sure what you're talking about when you say there's no feat above tier 8. It's also not an outlier either as Mario and co were amped, so the amount of other feats they have is irrelevant. Also, Paper Mario is accepted to be the same as Mario here.

You also say a simple statement doesn't do much, but there's also multiple statements that says what the ability does.

 

[Lord_JJJ]

Agree with Low-1C, it really makes sense with the scans here although some scans don't seems to work for me (not sure if the problem from me or the images are just don't work)

Not sure about Immeasurable stuff honnestly

 

[The_Pink_God]

Following

 

[Rikimarox2]

Some of the scans aren't working. More specifically, the last 5 ones before the immeasurable speed stuff.

 

[Everything12]

Yeah, that isn't a feat for Immeasurable. Not sure what it is, but I know it's not a speed feat.

For the Low 1-C stuff, I currently have zero opinions on that and will wait for other people to come here and argue for and against it before I make a vote.

 

[Planck69]

Yeah, the "speed" feat is not even a speed feat, much less Immeasurable.

Neutral on the Low 1-C stuff.

 

[PrinceofPein]

What is the highest dimension in Mario? what ever that is, one transcendence above that is fine i guess


about the speed, can you clarify better?

 

[Bernkastelll]

As you can see from the title of this thread. Yes, we are gonna try and upgrade all those who scale to the Void to Low 1-C. The Void was going to destroy the entire cosmology, which is currently rated 2-B due to scaling to the Dream Depot. So this thread will talk about an upgrade to the cosmology, as well as other abilities to add to the Mario series.



Cutout World

The Cutout World from Paper Mario: Color Splash is a place where Mario travels to when using the Cutout ability. With this, he can transcend dimensions and cut pieces of spacetime like a background piece, then he can restore the pieces afterward.

It's stated that the Cutout World transcends dimensions, space and time:


The translation for "transcend" in the Japanese version of the game is 超える (Koeru). There are two versions of this kanji. 越える means "to cross, to go outside", while 超える means "to surpass, to be more than". And the second version is used throughout the game to describe Cutout. So we know they're talking about being superior, not going outside or crossing space and time.



The game also uses the term 次元 (Jigen), which refers to mathematical dimensions.


But if you're still skeptical, 次元 has only referred to spatial dimensions in Mario. Therefore we know they aren't talking about other universes.


Going back to what was said earlier, Huey states that Mario can cut his world as if it were scenery or a background image. And he can cut it out as if it were made with paper, which signifies that he's viewing space and time as an insignificant wallpaper. There's also a similar ability within the series named Paperize, which functions similar to Cutout, as it lets Mario view his world as a sheet of paper instead of a real place. This one appears in Sticker Star.



In short, the Cutout World is a place that:

- Transcends dimensions

- Transcends space and time

- Lets Mario view his world as a fictional background piece

With that said, Mario should get Higher Dimensional Existence and Higher Dimensional Manipulation with Cutout. As well as Low 1-C with the Pure Hearts.



Immeasurable Speed

The Void exists within every universe in Super Paper Mario, and it's constantly growing with each moment. It can grow faster in separate universes like the Sammer Kingdom, which would require Immeasurable speed, as it would have to not only bypass the space and time of each universe but also be able to move differently within each location. Since the Chaos Heart created the void, it would naturally scale. Mario and his friends can move inside the void, as well as reverse the Void's affects with the Pure Hearts. Dimentio was also going to destroy all worlds and create new ones, which implies he can move after the Void's destruction. Meaning that those who scale to the Void should get Immeasurable.



Since this is a huge upgrade, let's pray things don't become toxic on this thread...

I disagree with the speed part, can u explain better? it doesnt even seems like a speed feat, but I agree with the Low 1-C stuff

 

[Theuser789]

Pretty sure existing in multiple universes is just onmipresence, not immeasurable

 

[Starsprite53]

Pretty sure existing in multiple universes is just onmipresence, not immeasurable

I think because it's growing over time

 

[AKM sama]

Why are there two threads talking about cosmology at the same time?

 

[Theuser789]

I think because it's growing over time

That doesn't mean much, the void is always growing, it's just some universes get reached before others, it still isn't immeasurable

 

[M1keyOnDiscord]

This one seems more directed on SPM as a reference around the Void, meanwhile the other one seems more in general of galactic and dimensional presence in the series as a whole.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Don't the characters outpace mini void attacks from Bleck? Nothing shows these voids are any different from the main one iirc

 

[Everything12]

Even if the void is Immeasurable, it isn't, we wouldn't scale the mini-voids to it. Just because they look like mini-voids and come from the same power source (The Chaos Heart) does not mean they scale speed-wise without further proof.

 

[liluzivert]

It’s growing over time, so it’s not simply constant state of existing as omnipresent.

I think this sums it up pretty well.

The Void is one entity, but can vary in size and growth depending on the universe you are in. As it stands, you can get immeasurable from being in multiple universes as you'd have to bypass a space-time barrier to do so. With here, being omnipresent means that the void would have to be in a constant state of being, but as we know that's not the case at all. Places like Sammer Kingdom can get engulfed by the void while it can be normal sized within Flipside. As well as the fact that it's one thing growing larger and larger within each universe, which again requires immeasurable as it would have to be one entity that grows within different universes, something that's not possible with omnipresence.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

And yeah that thread was pointing out how the Cosmology of celestial bodies and perhaps the universe itself and how galaxies can be and were often likened to that of a bigger structure containing a cluster of them given context and direct quotes from the japanese scans and then talking about dreams and how the Worlds in Galaxy 2 could be universes with context and all that. More importantly, it was intended to be a discussion and so far a downgrade is looking likely, so it may even be concluded soon anyways.

This is entirely separate and focused on an actual Tier with different reasonings and talking about the wider Multiverse.

 

[liluzivert]

Also, is there anything I can do to fix broken images? They work for me, idk why it's acting up for everyone else.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Even if the void is Immeasurable, it isn't, we wouldn't scale the mini-voids to it. Just because they look like mini-voids and come from the same power source (The Chaos Heart) does not mean they scale speed-wise without further proof.

Not saying whether or not this is a logical argument, but we've done this with other verses and literally the same abilities coming from the same power source granting speed scaling I'm almost positive. In some cases it's only denied because it's inconsistent like the Wand of Star Butterfly shooting blasts into other universes.

 

[AKM sama]

I disagree with immeasurable too. There is nothing immeasurable about it and the reasons for it scaling to characters is also not how that works.

@Dino_Ranger_Black @DontTalkDT what do you think about the rest?

 

[liluzivert]

I disagree with immeasurable too. There is nothing immeasurable about it and the reasons for it scaling to characters is also not how that works.

How is it not immeasurable?

 

[Starsprite53]

I'm also iffy about it

 

[The_Smashor]

I'm 90% sure that immeasurable speed just isn't how immeasurable speed works. Also it's a huge outlier for Mario.

 

[Starsprite53]

I'm 90% sure that immeasurable speed just isn't how immeasurable speed works. Also it's a huge outlier for Mario.

While i'm iffy with the feat, it only scales to pure hearts and chaos heart users