Mario Galaxy games Mario should be a different key from normal Mario

[Chariot190]

That the exact usage of the word in question could mean several things. You aren't wrong that's it's common to be used as strength tho.
We know whatever it is, is worded to be in possession of someone else as the following kanji is indicative of possession, so Mario or luma, we know the word can mean strength, but also various other things, even something as simple as energy.

We have added context clarifying what the power in question is.

Ergo, it doesn't inherently mean physical strength in the same way the English line doesn't mean physical strength despite using power, a word that almost always is used to refer to strength.

Something as simple as Mario feels a power/force/energy within works too. But as said, literally clarified what that mf's "power" entailed.

 

[Potemkat]

That the exact usage of the word in question could mean several things. You aren't wrong that's it's common to be used as strength tho.
We know whatever it is, is worded to be in possession of someone else as the following kanji is indicative of possession, so Mario or luma, we know the word can mean strength, but also various other things, even something as simple as energy.
We have added context clarifying what the power in question is.

Ergo, it doesn't inherently mean physical strength in the same way the English line doesn't mean physical strength despite using power, a word that almost always is used to refer to strength.
Something as simple as Mario feels a power/force/energy within works too. But as said, literally clarified what that mf's "power" entailed.

Energy would imply strength, since it's used to talk about your physical energy.

If it was power the way you say it is, then I think it would say 能力

And what happens in the game + what it helps to do show a lot that Mario is now stronger.
It's just most logic with Mario universe. What you say make incoherences and mean that this game only change some things about words.

 

[Chariot190]

Energy would imply strength, since it's used to talk about your physical energy.

It can also mean vigour or even as said, refer to some like a political power. It has a wide variety of meanings that vary depending on context given Japanese is a highly context sensitive language, and not quite. As someone who ***** with Japanese text a lot for another verse, they use something akin to this a lot to describe "stand power", though while it uses nearly identical terminology as here, clarification as to what it means is case by case.

You're taking one meaning out of a dozen, ignoring the fact it's been clarified what the power means, and going "well, its often used for strength, so it's talking about strength".

By that same logic we wouldn't even had argued because the word power also means strength most of the time and they say that in English. But as is the case between both, added context tells us what it's talking about.
Tbh it's probably just talking about the cosmic spin attack in this case
Edit: That can mean abilities, but the kanji you listed can also be used to refer to physical abilities, this shit is context sensitive. That doesn't change this having multiple meanings either tho.

 

[Potemkat]

It can also mean vigour or even as said, refer to some like a political power. It has a wide variety of meanings that vary depending on context given Japanese is a highly context sensitive language, and not quite. As someone who ***** with Japanese text a lot for another verse, they use something akin to this a lot to describe "stand power", though while it uses nearly identical terminology as here, clarification as to what it means is case by case.

I didn't read a lot of Jojo, but if you mean the specific power of each stand, I think it's still 能力. Also for political power (if i understand it correctly) it's more 政柄.

And I know how japanese works too, it's my language..

You're taking one meaning out of a dozen, ignoring the fact it's been clarified what the power means, and going "well, its often used for strength, so it's talking about strength".

By that same logic we wouldn't even had argued because the word power also means strength most of the time and they say that in English. But as is the case between both, added context tells us what it's talking about.
Tbh it's probably just talking about the cosmic spin attack in this case

I'm just saying how people use it and explained why what you say don't work because it's the word and not part of a word..

And I think it's logic for the translation to say like japanese, so here it says power like strength too.
Context shows that Mario has more power too, since he does thing stronger than what he can normally

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

are y'all really trying to explain japanese to someone who speaks it natively? jesus christ lmao

Anyways I'll catch up on what I missed and then try to respond later tonight.

 

[Chariot190]

StI didn't read a lot of Jojo, but if you mean the specific power of each stand, I think it's still 能力. Also for political power (if i understand it correctly) it's more 政柄.

Literally wrong here. If I had a dollar for every time, I'd have like 34$
I said stand power, not stand abilities, that's something else

And I know how japanese works too, it's my language..

Then you'd know it can mean a lot of shit and with added context, lo and behold, it doesn't inherently have to mean physical power amp.

'm just saying how people use it and explained why what you say don't work because it's the word and not part of a word..

If it's your own language you'd know damn well it can mean a bunch of shit. Even in the way it's worded here.

And I think it's logic for the translation to say like japanese, so here it says power like strength too.

If you're running with that you're just gonna shoot yourself in the foot, the way it's worded in English, as well as the context given, all but says the literal opposite.

Context shows that Mario has more power too, since he does thing stronger than what he can normally

He says, while ignoring the bunch of shit Mario does normally. You realize the ONLY thing Mario does in galaxy he doesn't normally do is a cool spin move right? This is, again, confirmation bias. You're arguing him fighting strong dudes is something he can't normally do so it must be an amp, yet I'm arguing no, thats just Mario being inconsistent as ****. In the exact same way as if what we take what you say to be true, then we have Bowser fighting Mario while unamped just as big an issue as Mario fighting an amped Bowser. I can not stress enough how much cherry picking you're all doing here.

 

[Chariot190]

政柄

Shouldn't you know off the top of your head, you just finished saying you speak it natively

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Anyways, based on my own knowledge and reading, the Japanese text does seem to refer to someone gaining power (力 is far more commonly used to indicate 'power' as in strength, or an amp of some kind. not universally but it is the safest assumption by far), and Potemkat's explanation on why it isn't GML makes sense. I checked a Japanese playthrough of the game, and GML does only speak in brackets, while the text mentioning power is just narration. All that aside, there's just the logical issue of "why would Mario be granting power to something under his hat?", so Mario being the one getting amped makes much more sense.

 

[Chariot190]

Actually, another bit of contradiction. Rosa in following games has the cosmic spin move too, yet unamped characters can tank it, and she's shown comparable to Mario and co as they usually are. Given how many disconnected examples from other games you people brought up, I'm sure you don't mind if we list the numerous examples showing Mario and co being comparable to the alleged amps in other games correct?

Anyways, based on my own knowledge and reading, the Japanese text does seem to refer to someone gaining power (力 is far more commonly used to indicate 'power' as in strength, or an amp of some kind. not universally but it is the safest assumption by far), and Potemkat's explanation on why it isn't GML makes sense. I checked a Japanese playthrough of the game, and GML does only speak in brackets, while the text mentioning power is just narration. All that aside, there's just the logical issue of "why would Mario be granting power to something under his hat?", so Mario being the one getting amped makes much more sense.

Nobody is saying it doesn't usually mean strength
But usually isn't always, and when we have extra context and clarification denoting what that power entails, it kinda makes this whole argument moot to begin with.

It's no different how in English power usually means strength, but exceptions do exist.

 

[Potemkat]

Literally wrong here. If I had a dollar for every time, I'd have like 34$
I said stand power, not stand abilities, that's something else

Can you show what you mean

Then you'd know it can mean a lot of shit and with added context, lo and behold, it doesn't inherently have to mean physical power amp.

If it's your own language you'd know damn well it can mean a bunch of shit. Even in the way it's worded here.

If you're running with that you're just gonna shoot yourself in the foot, the way it's worded in English, as well as the context given, all but says the literal opposite.

I explained why I think it's physical and why the word alone is used for that all time.

A lot of thing you and the other are saying is weird to me. The other said pronouns were luma talking but text had no pronouns and wasn't luma. And you say 力 alone is the same when it is with other words. I don't understand why you two say this if you're japanese

He says, while ignoring the bunch of shit Mario does normally. You realize the ONLY thing Mario does in galaxy he doesn't normally do is a cool spin move right? This is, again, confirmation bias. You're arguing him fighting strong dudes is something he can't normally do so it must be an amp, yet I'm arguing no, thats just Mario being inconsistent as ****. In the exact same way as if what we take what you say to be true, then we have Bowser fighting Mario while unamped just as big an issue as Mario fighting an amped Bowser. I can not stress enough how much cherry picking you're all doing here.

I said why it's not logic with what thing we see already. I don't think repeating things help, and I don't want people to be angry like at the start..

Shouldn't you know off the top of your head, you just finished saying you speak it natively

I'm studying english and I don't speak politicians a lot.

 

[Chariot190]

Can you show what you mean

I could look when I get home sure. I think I know a few off the top of my head in part 3 which I have the raws of ATM downloaded.

explained why I think it's physical and why the word alone is used for that all time.

Yeah I got that, but as with anything just because it CAN mean something, given the added context we have, it doesn't have to always.

A lot of thing you and the other are saying is weird to me. The other said pronouns were luma talking but text had no pronouns and wasn't luma. And you say 力 alone is the same when it is with other words. I don't understand why you two say this if you're japanese

I ain't fox brother, what he says ain't what I'm saying.

I didn't say that? I'm just saying it can mean various things, and even in this situation, additional context can clarify meaning?

said why it's not logic with what thing we see already. I don't think repeating things help, and I don't want people to be angry like at the start..

You said that, but you also have to ignore a metric fuckton of examples, the whole of Galaxy 1 just about, and even galaxy 2 given the lad with the good feats is harmed by noncosmic attacks in scripted sequences.
And tbh, you'd have to also ignore like every following game Rosa is in it too as she uses star power but isn't shown magnitudes above the cast either.
Just comes off as cherry picking to force a narrative that Mario is amped by a decillion times when he's demonstrably not even in the worst situation.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Actually, another bit of contradiction. Rosa in following games has the cosmic spin move too, yet unamped characters can tank it, and she's shown comparable to Mario and co as they usually are. Given how many disconnected examples from other games you people brought up, I'm sure you don't mind if we list the numerous examples showing Mario and co being comparable to the alleged amps in other games correct?

...Nobody is saying the spin move as a technique is an amp. It is specifically the version granted by GML, which only Mario possessed during the events of of SMG1/2. Since GML granted Mario the spin move and a power boost, it is only natural that the spin move granted by GML is much higher than normal.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Nobody is saying it doesn't usually mean strength
But usually isn't always, and when we have extra context and clarification denoting what that power entails, it kinda makes this whole argument moot to begin with.

It's no different how in English power usually means strength, but exceptions do exist.

If something is more consistently portrayed as one way and not the other, we have no real reason to ignore the more consistent portrayal. Your argument as it is now hinges on "well it COULD be one of the less used definitions!!", which simply does not fly here.

 

[Chariot190]

...Nobody is saying the spin move as a technique is an amp. It is specifically the version granted by GML, which only Mario possessed during the events of of SMG1/2. Since GML granted Mario the spin move and a power boost, it is only natural that the spin move granted by GML is much higher than normal.

Yeah see, this is more headcanon.

You're just making excuses now. You've argued constantly the cosmic spin is a powerful attack, GML is stated to give it, but now you're arguing he's given a special variant of the cosmic spin?
What about other lumas that give Mario star power that don't buff him further? Like Red Lumas. Or hell Rosa uses star power too? Why's is hers like 10 digits weaker?

 

[Chariot190]

If something is more consistently portrayed as one way and not the other, we have no real reason to ignore the more consistent portrayal. Your argument as it is now hinges on "well it COULD be one of the less used definitions!!", which simply does not fly here.

No my argument is that it's actually clarified as to what it means so despite having a common usage, in this instance it still wouldn't apply for the same reason the exact same line in English didn't either.

If we simply took words at face value and ignored context or clarification, then even the terms "power" in English would ALWAYS mean physical strength because that's the common usage of the word

Don't strawman please.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Yeah see, this is more headcanon.

You're just making excuses now. You've argued constantly the cosmic spin is a powerful attack, GML is stated to give it, but now you're arguing he's given a special variant of the cosmic spin?
What about other lumas that give Mario star power that don't buff him further? Like Red Lumas. Or hell Rosa uses star power too? Why's is hers like 10 digits weaker?

Because they are different power sources and do not provide amps in the same measure. GML's amp is much higher than the norm for Lumas/star power. That is literally it. Even among regular lumas, GML is treated with a high degree of reverence and respect (where do you think the name "Young Master Luma" comes from?), so assuming him to be superior is not unreasonable.

No my argument is that it's actually clarified as to what it means so despite having a common usage, in this instance it still wouldn't apply for the same reason the exact same line in English didn't either.

Mario being given the spin attack isn't a debunk when we literally see how it is BOTH a new ability and a power amp; Although you still wanna argue on the basis that 3 is more than 10 so I can't convince you on that shit.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Anyways, this shit is laughable when you have said multiple times "just post a statement saying Mario got stronger!!", we did so, which supports the actual canon showings of the spin attack, and you STILL wanna debate this shit. The goalpost moving is insane.

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Anyways, based on my own knowledge and reading, the Japanese text does seem to refer to someone gaining power (力 is far more commonly used to indicate 'power' as in strength, or an amp of some kind. not universally but it is the safest assumption by far), and Potemkat's explanation on why it isn't GML makes sense. I checked a Japanese playthrough of the game, and GML does only speak in brackets, while the text mentioning power is just narration. All that aside, there's just the logical issue of "why would Mario be granting power to something under his hat?", so Mario being the one getting amped makes much more sense.

Just because something is more common, does not mean it's true. Context of the verse is especially important, which Chariot went through with yall three dozens of times.
Even something as simple as "strength" could refer to soemthing else entirely, rather than pure punching power.. Why? Because fiction CAN and WILL use words in a different way than the common interpretation one might have in the mind.

 

[Potemkat]

I could look when I get home sure. I think I know a few off the top of my head in part 3 which I have the raws of ATM downloaded.

The only thing I can think of for 3 is the boat stand which is named like that.

Yeah I got that, but as with anything just because it CAN mean something, given the added context we have, it doesn't have to always.

I didn't say that? I'm just saying it can mean various things, and even in this situation, additional context can clarify meaning?

But if it meant what you say it would be another word.
Like imagine samurai novels. If you see someone talk about 力 you know it means the samurai strength and not his sword techniques, even if samurai novels usually are about being good at the word.

And tbh, you'd have to also ignore like every following game Rosa is in it too as she uses star power but isn't shown magnitudes above the cast either.
Just comes off as cherry picking to force a narrative that Mario is amped by a decillion times when he's demonstrably not even in the worst situation.

In Mario Galaxy 1, you can't do damage to her because she protects herself faster than Mario and Mario can't break her bubble.

Rosalina in the other games is bonus character or a character who play with bowser army members and mario and the others (I don't think normal Koopa is strong like Bowser). I don't know why you don't like Mario Galaxy so much..

 

[Chariot190]

Because they are different power sources and do not provide amps in the same measure.

Again, you're assuming he's amping, and thus because this other time it's used isn't different, it must be the fact the amp is just larger.
How many times do you need to be told? Confirmation bias, self fulfilling, circular argument.

This only works if it's ACTUALLY an amp, but obviously that's being debated, and if that isn't set in stone this just makes it a contradictory instance.

GML's amp is much higher than the norm for Lumas/star power.

Oh and where do they say that?

That is literally it. Even among regular lumas, GML is treated with a high degree of reverence and respect (where do you think the name "Young Master Luma" comes from?), so assuming him to be superior is not unreasonable.

Yeah and so are like four other types of Lumas brother. Honestly, if memory serves, half the reason he's treated to be special is because the fact he's a literal newborn luma.

Mario being given the spin attack isn't a debunk when we literally see how it is BOTH a new ability and a power amp; Although you still wanna argue on the basis that 3 is more than 10 so I can't convince you on that shit.

30% of the time + other games + the actual fight in which this happens + galaxy 1 isn't exactly shit you just handwave.

And yeah, the power given in question enables a cool move, but as said before, that move isn't exactly shown a decillion times stronger, ****, Mario beats the 3-C dude with his normal attacks even, not even the alleged ultra move.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

30% of the time + other games + the actual fight in which this happens + galaxy 1 isn't exactly shit you just handwave.

What other games? What "actual fight"?? When the **** did I handwave Galaxy 1 when I used multiple examples from there to back up my argument????

I don't waste time debating people who just make shit up out of thin air, **** off lmao

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

If something is more consistently portrayed as one way and not the other, we have no real reason to ignore the more consistent portrayal. Your argument as it is now hinges on "well it COULD be one of the less used definitions!!", which simply does not fly here.

Not how it works? Something being more common doesn't make it right, lol. It's almost the same as saying X thing universally believed to be true must mean X contains truth value/is objectively true, which isn't how things work... You need to have hard confirmation of it being so, meaning it must have a degree of 100% truth value- Which in this case, it doesn't. Infact, quite the opposite. The context APPEALS to NOT say amped here, but rather that he's given abilities. Why are you so infatuated with cognitive bias over something as clear as this? Like is it that hard to accept it?? I don't understand you.

 

[Chariot190]

The only thing I can think of for 3 is the boat stand which is named like that.

I said Stand Power, not Strength as in the stand.. though Abdul uses the term there actually iirc

But if it meant what you say it would be another word.

Exactly my point, Stand Power uses a wording that implicates physical might, but I'm reality it just means the power a stand has and even the energy that gives them form, but this doesn't mean strength, some stands don't even have strength (literally, like Paisley park)

Like imagine samurai novels. If you see someone talk about 力 you know it means the samurai strength and not his sword techniques, even if samurai novels usually are about being good at the word.

I mean if the context indicates that yeah? But if they clarify that "strength" to mean like, "he's strong in the way of the sword, and his strength with it is unmatched" that, despite having used the same wording, would implicate something not bound in raw strength alone.

In Mario Galaxy 1, you can't do damage to her because she protects herself faster than Mario and Mario can't break her bubble.

So? She has tier 2 forcefields brother.

Rosalina in the other games is bonus character or a character who play with bowser army members and mario and the others (I don't think normal Koopa is strong like Bowser). I don't know why you don't like Mario Galaxy so much..

Galaxy 1 is my third favorite Mario game tho...

And so? Sports games, party games, 3d world, etc, she showing up isn't always just a neat bonus.

 

[Chariot190]

Anyways, this shit is laughable when you have said multiple times "just post a statement saying Mario got stronger!!", we did so, which supports the actual canon showings of the spin attack, and you STILL wanna debate this shit. The goalpost moving is insane.

All you did was post a statement that says the same thing it does in English? If we argued that context and clarification suggested otherwise in English for the EXACT same line, why would it be any different now?

And the showings is half the reason I ain't buying into this, you're ignoring a bunch of blatant contradictions and just rolling with what would collude with your argument, like yeah of course if you just take what doesn't actively contradict you and ignore what does, you can argue basically anything tbh.
Wasn't you who posted it anyway

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

So? She has tier 2 forcefields brother.

Speedrunner mario SLAMS no diff via glitch wincon

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

And the showings is half the reason I ain't buying into this, you're ignoring a bunch of blatant contradictions and just rolling with what would collude with your argument, like yeah of course if you just take what doesn't actively contradict you and ignore what does, you can argue basically anything tbh.
Wasn't you who posted it anyway

I am ignoring 3 contradictions.

You are ignoring 10.

If I have to dumb this down any further for you then I don't know what to say. I'm used to explaining long scaling chains or abstract concepts in VS debating, not ******* 1st grade level math.

 

[Chariot190]

I am ignoring 3 contradictions.

You are ignoring 10.

If I have to dumb this down any further for you then I don't know what to say. I'm used to explaining long scaling chains or abstract concepts in VS debating, not ******* 1st grade level math.

You're ignoring 30% of boss fights, basically the plot of Galaxy 1 (which I'd argue is more important than galaxy 2 as 1 establishes all this), future games, Rosalina, various other lumas doing completely different shit and not amping despite filling Mario with a cosmic power, the fact that the whole reason why this is a thread (the galaxy feats) is done by a dude that is harmed canonically by the NON cosmic spin attacks, and so on.

Like my brother in Christ

 

[Chariot190]

What other games? What "actual fight"?? When the **** did I handwave Galaxy 1 when I used multiple examples from there to back up my argument????

I don't waste time debating people who just make shit up out of thin air, **** off lmao

Every future game with the cosmic spin and Rosa?
The galaxy 2 Bowser fight?
The main villain of Galaxy 1 and a fight that happens 3 times?

Didn't you just make up how GML's amp is, according to this logic, like 7 tiers above every other lumas who grant cosmic power? Which also ***** your previous argument of Lumas all inherently being galactic in power

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

You're ignoring 30% of boss fights, basically the plot of Galaxy 1 (which I'd argue is more important than galaxy 2 as 1 establishes all this), future games, Rosalina, various other lumas doing completely different shit and not amping despite filling Mario with a cosmic power, the fact that the whole reason why this is a thread (the galaxy feats) is done by a dude that is harmed canonically by the NON cosmic spin attacks, and so on.

Like my brother in Christ

30% is less than 70%, yes.

I'm tapping out, having a conversation with someone who does not understand how numbers work is driving me to drink.

 

[Chariot190]

30% plus a bunch of other instances + within that 30% is the VERY reason you're claiming it's an amp (he can fight a 3-C).
Like at least have the major instance NOT be damaged by basic attacks, your argument would be better if galaxy 2 koops could ONLY be harmed by the spin.

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

30% is less than 70%, yes.

I'm tapping out, having a conversation with someone who does not understand how numbers work is driving me to drink.

 

[Potemkat]

I said Stand Power, not Strength as in the stand.. though Abdul uses the term there actually iirc

Exactly my point, Stand Power uses a wording that implicates physical might, but I'm reality it just means the power a stand has and even the energy that gives them form, but this doesn't mean strength, some stands don't even have strength (literally, like Paisley park)

I don't think I have seen the stand you mean. I stopped after Pucci dies.

I tried searching in the Strength chapters, and Abdul say this:
それにしてもこのような きょだい そうとう 巨大な「スタンド」を あやつるのは相当なパワーで なくては......

Is it this one?

I mean if the context indicates that yeah? But if they clarify that "strength" to mean like, "he's strong in the way of the sword, and his strength with it is unmatched" that, despite having used the same wording, would implicate something not bound in raw strength alone.

There's already words for being strong in martial arts, that's the difference I mean. If you use this word especially, it means you bring attention to something which isn't superpowers or being good at your thing.

Galaxy 1 is my third favorite Mario game tho...

And so? Sports games, party games, 3d world, etc, she showing up isn't always just a neat bonus.

She is a bonus in these ones tho. That's like saying normal koopas are as strong as Rosalina because of the party and sport games.

 

[Chariot190]

I don't think I have seen the stand you mean. I stopped after Pucci dies.

I tried searching in the Strength chapters, and Abdul say this:
それにしてもこのような きょだい そうとう 巨大な「スタンド」を あやつるのは相当なパワーで なくては......

Is it this one?

What? I'm not talking about a specific stand but rather a common term used to describe stands.
Unless you mean Paisley, then yeah she's Part 8.
Idk I'm not home to actually grab one of the 30+ examples of to fact check that line if it's what I'm thinking of. I'll just throw one at you in a bit if you really want one when I'm off.
Thanks for extracting the text for that tho, I actually needed it for the profile

There's already words for being strong in martial arts, that's the difference I mean. If you use this word especially, it means you bring attention to something which isn't superpowers or being good at your thing.

Perhaps, or perhaps not. I'm not saying in 90% of cases you wouldn't be right, but I can't stress enough that in this case WE ARE TOLD what it be doing, that's the difference.

She is a bonus in these ones tho. That's like saying normal koopas are as strong as Rosalina because of the party and sport games.

No she isn't? She's usually a standard character and sometimes even part of a plot? And bonus character? Being post game doesn't mean it never happened (and that's only in one example).
Also some koopas do scale, while most don't exceptions do exist. Kinda like bandana dee, or like the RPG named ones

 

[Chariot190]

Read part 7 btw, best part no cap.

 

[TheGunsFinalWrath]

Read part 7 btw, best part no cap.

L. Part 3 SLAMS. Jotaro da GOAT

 

[AStrangeverse]

chariot in a 2v1 god damn

 

[ZespeonGalaxy]

someone give me a simple summary of the Current agreements. tyty

 

[Omnificence]

Bump?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Bump?

Did you legit made a 1 year necro? Nah, fam. Closing.