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Mario Discussion Thread Part 3

I will say that while I like the story involving Koops and his Dad, Chapter 1 was the most dull chapter of the game (excluding the Prologue), but I still love almost everything about the game.
 
Tfw when one of, if not you're favorite game of all time has some really good stuff for Mario.

As a whole, what is everything that Mario would gain via the Crystal stars?
 
Crystal Stars grant:

Passive Resistances to Sealing, Curse Manipulation, Soul Manipulation and likely BFR via the Four Heroes lore. Likely Passive Resistances toward Information/Conceptual Manipulation depending on which of the two -- and potentially if both -- get accepted.

You can even argue potential resistances to empathic manipulation since their pure souls became evil and twisted (albeit the "twisted" part refers to them inadvertently aiding Mario through their "curses") as well as maybe fear manipulation given the Shadow Queen had a statement of instilling fear in the hearts of all men via just it's gaze according to the same lore dump.

We could also potentially get Resistances to Age Manipulation (can keep a person like Grubba young and fit via a combination of life draining and power absorption), Power Absorption, and Life Draining as the Gold Star could reverse the effects it caused.

As for the Stars themselves, they physically can't be digested so resistance to Acids I guess.

The Crystal Stars themselves can be used to perform Sealing, Life Draining, Power Sapping (likely a forn of Absorption via Grubba draining peeps to become macho), Size Manipulation (made Grubba grow giant), and prevent aging so maybe instill a form of longevity or self-sustenance (Grubba used one's power to power a machine that kept him young and fit via draining other's power and life energies) and of course the obvious abilities they have from facing the Shadow Queen and when you use them in battle.
 
Aging thing was likely just some Immortality type 1. The resistance to age hax is covered by his life/power absorption, not really needed.

The Fear and Empathic hax resistance covers his resistance to mindhax (Seriously, we need to change the note on his mind hax resistance to minor, it isn't minor at all)
 
Yeah, I agree.

So SPM gave Mario the insane AP, TTYD gave him tons of hax shit via Crystals Stars plus his arsenal in general, 64 gaves us the Star Rod Bowser, Color Splash probably has some decent stuff in it tbh, and Sticker Star... Uh. Gave us amped base forms? But nah, I guess some of the Stickers have some decent hax, but overall Sticker Star seems the most disappointing (fitting)
 
Seems about right

Man, the Paper Mario series has given Mario so much and I love it lol.

Can't wait for the Mario profile to be fully fleshed out.
 
Yeah, that's cool. Shame people like DB and most other VS Forums have Paper Mario as "non-canon" or a separate character.
 
Yeah, there's always a lot to talk about with Mario. I still gotta make that Shadow Mario Revisions/Sunshine Additions CRT as well. Then we have Power Star additions from 64 and now Crystal Star additions.
 
Well, uh, Toad's dialogue in 64 was different in the Japanese version.

    • Box 1:**
Oh, thank goodness you came!

Princess Peach and us were all shut in the "wall"

    • Box 2:**
Bowser used the power star and he was going to make a Monster country inside the "Wall" and "Painitng". Please take back the star!

    • Box 3:**
If you take a few stars back, then Bowser's door will open. Please find the 4th room on the 1st floor and keep going.

    • Box 4:**
Firstly, you can enter the "Painting" room on the left hand side of the Bomb wall

Only in this room where you can escape from Bowser's Seal.

So uh, he was planning to make a "monster country" within the paintings and walls. This implies all the Worlds are connected as one singular thing. So Bowser having multiples worlds bending to his will is mostly unsupported and it's more country-wide hax. This country still contained stars in the sky thpugh, so I dunno how that'd work but the MSS rating would still be legit obviously. Tbh, since Rosie notes some Power Stars are what became of a Luma transforming, I don't understand why Base Mario under our reasons isn't "At least 4-A, at most 3-C" since Lumas have the capacity to become entire galaxies.

It should also be worth noting that "the power of the stars" that Bowser gloats about acquiring is also, by Rosalina, said to be gifted to Mario by the young Master Luma, meaning Lumas and Power Stars are pretty compatible. Whether this "power of the stars" was just the spin is still up for debate though. May try and find the Japanese text for when Rosie states that and hopefully get it translated to see if the vagueness can be clarified, but I kinda doubt it. Either way, this could potentially justify a Low 2-C rating for Mario when gifted the Power of the Stars by the Luma since it could directly combat Giant Galaxy Bowser who's Low 2-C with the Power of the Stars he obtained. And it should be noted this isn't base form Mario, and that just because he's beaten Powwr Star users in base doesn't mean he scales to their full potential, as a Grand Star, Big Star (Bowser has this in 64 and claims he had the "Power of the Stars" there), and many Power Stars (as seen by endgame 64 Mario) are needed in order for you to be able to fully utilise this "Power of the Stars". Hell, the name even implies it's plural, and since a Grand Star and the Big Star are proven > a single Power Star, it's fitting IMO. And the Lumas all sacrificing themselves are like multiple Power Stars (since they can become them) being used to combat the Low 2-C Black Hole, aka the Power of the Stars, a Low 2-C force being used to reveet a Low 2-C event. And Master Luma is considered special and should be considered special, as he's the only Luma who directly aids Mario in fighting as well.

I dunno if I explained it that well but what do you guys think about that?
 
Most powerful power-up? As in the items he can use to gain additional abilities? Or like, power-ups in a general powerscale sense? Cause the Pure Hearts by AP shit on everything else so far.

Crystal Stars are good hax items, but at their best they operate on a planetary scale unless I'm missing something. Power Stars are able to negate seals, mind/madness hax, and have the ability to cross dimensions and fly MFTL+ speeds as well as give him the second-best AP in the series. Honestly, there's probably more the Power Stars can do but I'm not beat for an entire extensive research just yet.

If we're talking just his normal arsenal of iconic power-ups like the Mushrooms and Fire Flowers? I guess out of the power-ups we have, I'd say Gold Flower is up there along with Vanish Flower. The Super Star is also pretty damn good and should have sone added abilities to it like Power Bestowal and immunities/resistances plus amped resistances from his Base to the hax and elemental crap Bowser's forces use. The only bad thing is the time limit which is actually canonical IIRC. If we consider non-standard arsenals than his White Tanooki is the definitive best one as it's basically the Star with no time limit, but it's non-standard in that so far, through game mechanics that haven't been disproven yet, it needs him to have already died multiple times. Though it's canonical existence does seem to support the idea that Mario actually does have multiple lives, but I've tried arguing his multiple lives was canon before and just got a hard no for whatever reason so meh.

Anyways, since I know people will ask for proof Master Luma was special, I have these screenshots (and I got it wrong; Rosalina doesn't state Luma had the Power of the Stars, a fellow Luma did):

Screenshot 2020-04-09-22-12-05
Lumas stating that Master Luma could help Mario use the Power of the Stars

Screenshot 2020-04-09-22-12-49
Lumas making the distinction that they can only help "a little" when in comparison to what Master Luma could do, showing he's a special case among Lumas as well
 
@Fox Maybe the crystal stars have planetary range. I'd say crystal stars are 4A at best since they are able to match the shadow queen
 
@Foxthefox1000

Thanks for the broad answer, I was referring to Power-Ups as in like Mushrooms, Tanooki suits and of the sorts.
 
If you're talking non-invincible items then I'd say the Cape honestly has the most combat-oriented versatility for a fight from the power-ups I can immediately recall off the top of my head.
 
That makes sense, thanks for the answer!

I guess Super Mario Bros Z was right along.

Also, wouldn't the White Raccoon Suit be technically better than the White Tanooki Suit since it can do everything the White Tanooki Suit can do along with being able to run on water?
 
Probably.

Anyways, since Low 2-C stats are part of the CRT I'll post what I've gathered there to see if we can get a Low 2-C Key for Mario with "The Power of the Stars".
 
Here's a quote from the Noki Elder in the Shell Secret Episode of Sunshine that further supports the Magic Paintbrusb creating the Secrer levels:

++Old Noki Fisherman+++ One platform ahead of starting platform

"Master Mario, you've become tied to our destiny, I'm afraid.

A pathway to another world has opened above our fair land.

Surely you will go there? Of course! You must go there!

I apologize for involving you in all of this! Good luck!

We'll cheer you on from here! Farewell!"

Of course there's general hax additions to be had but this is practically confirmation which could be useful if others doubt the rating.
 
I remembered there was a manual that stated Bowser would've encompassed all of his paintings into all of reality.
 
Bowser had the Power of the Stars in 64 so that statement would line up with it pretty well. But could you find the statement?
 
Apparently Doopliss also wanted to erase Mario. And another addition is that the Crystal Stars could be used to resurrect people, as Prince Mush was heavily implied to be dead as Grubba stated "he ain't around these parts no more" after making him "disappear", which led to Jolene feeling sad and heartbroken, but then the Gold Star spit him out and your partner says "So THIS is the power of the Crystal Stars?". This is further corroborated by lore from Frankly stating that the Crystal Stars can either be used to seal the demon away or resurrect it. Grubba and your Partner's statements as well as their ability to grant the desires of whoever wields them, good or evil, makes me speculate a possible wish granting ability for them as well. Also, as "the most powerful witch in millennia" according to Grodus, the Shadow Queen might be able to use the magic abilities of Doopliss and the Crystal Stars, and for the latter she literally made them. Dunno what it could be, but Mario with the Crystal Stars and everyone's hopes and wishes is able to completely eradicate the Shadow Queen's soul as well.

Also, the Royal Sticmers in Sticker Star could grant wishes.

Also, if the Star Rod does become 2-B, then the Star Spirits collectively should also get a 2-B rating for the "Star Beam" that can counteract it. And this should be part of Mario's arsenal/summons because the Star Spirits even state that they'll always be happy to lend Mario their power in his time of need. The Star Spirits also were said to watch over it since time began. Dunno if they already have it, but Immortality Type 1 seems fitting for that.

That's about all the Paper Mario stuff I could squeeze out of the games today. Think TTYD should be done, as I've almost read the entire script and analyzed even the smallest things.
 
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