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Paper Luigi did go on off-screen adventures, so it ain't that far-fetchedThat's a pretty weak assumption when to get stronger he needs to adventure or whatever, and he usually doesn't do that off-screen. Mario ain't a shonen.
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Paper Luigi did go on off-screen adventures, so it ain't that far-fetchedThat's a pretty weak assumption when to get stronger he needs to adventure or whatever, and he usually doesn't do that off-screen. Mario ain't a shonen.
I was thinking Bowser and Peach, sorry, should have specified. But I find the idea of everyone growing massively to be a really weak excuse to patch up inconsistencies when people like Petey Piranha or the Koopalings show up every other game and put up a fight more or less.Paper Luigi did go on off-screen adventures, so it ain't that far-fetched
I think it can depend on context. If the verse is consistently tier 7 but has a couple tier 5 or 4 feats that aren’t really contradictory/seen as outliers, and the characters don’t struggle to perform tier 7 feats or have a massive amount of outliers, then the tier 7 feats would just be support for the characters being able to perform higher levels of power.I should say this as an overall thing for my agreement
I heavily dislike using just one or two feats in a ballpark to scale a character unless there's just a complete absence of feats, considering there are 2 valid Tier 4 feats and 1 valid tier 3 feat, we run into that personal problem of mine.
Using Warcraft as my example, Tier 7 is the most consistent Tier, so I throw the general cast into the highest feat I got for that that scales generally, I'm not scaling everyone to, say, 6-C from a weakened Ragnaros. That's one Tier 6 feat compared to the literal dozens of Tier 7 feats, so I don't scale like that.
Using the Mario Bros verse page, there's 4 calced feats between tiers 5-3, so like, why would I use those over, say, Tier 7 or 6?
Frankly I don’t care what tier they are I just know them currently being a billion times weaker than the main cast like they are now is provably wrong.Lou, please stop man, this ain't the thread for 3-C goombs
Dude, this got rejected in different threads, I don't wanna escalate things but I'll just delete any posts on the topic moving on. It ain't accepted and it's not gonna get accepted here for sure.Frankly I don’t care what tier they are I just know them currently being a billion times weaker than the main cast like they are now is provably wrong.
Also given a portion the argument here is reliant on minions not scaling if that can be proven false that means this thread’s argument is flawed
I see, so characters making pain sounds, losing HP, etc. doesn't count as scaling when it's an anti-feat (SM64 Bowser), but it does when they're bosses amped by power stars getting punched (Bouldergeist).I look away for five seconds. Alright, let me just look at these anti-feats real quick one-by-one.
Mario Party:
Ultimately the Mario cast still survives all this, and the main reason they get hurt is either Game Mechanics so that the minigame can happen or for the sake of comedy. Mario Party is an event that the entire cast agrees to do and is completely fine with, it would make no sense if they were actually in any mortal danger or constantly were receiving immense amounts of pain; not to mention in the various story modes characters rarely seem to be hurt after a minigame even if it's somehow painful. As for the examples given...
As long as you're only doing things which improve the wiki's accuracy, I'll be happy :3I'm going to downgrade so many verses if this thread passes
By making this known, you’ve severely reduced your credibility immediately because now we know this is entirely out of spite from Mario downgradesI'm going to downgrade so many verses if this thread passes
While there were discussions about separating temperature and force durability/strength (which I agree with), those haven't really progressed meaningfully.I myself have a question though: Aren’t the anti-feats involving lava more of a temperature thing than a durability thing? Like I’m not trying to say “3-C lava tho,” more so “do the lava shenanigans even qualify for AP/durability?”
To my knowledge, high stats but garbo heat resistance can be a thing
Anyway I read the blog and tier 9 or low tier 8 seems to be far more consistent, there are only very few tier 7 feats, some of them come from Mario being thrown to the moon and Luigi falling from space and while feats like this can reach tier 7 due to KE except the damage to the environment doesn't seems to be anywhere near tier 7 like at all....for starters Mario Moon feat seems to contradict the KE page since we can clearly see that the moon received almost no damage from the fall (see 7:23)I explained that like four times. It's a bit frustrating.
This is the same exact argument as "Kratos can't break a wooden door".Are you serious? A 3-C character trying to destroy a 9-A boulder and failing isn't an anti-feat? That's insane, I'm just gonna ignore this type of argument LMAO
Have you considered the possibility that they're just bombs that are capable of damaging Bowser? Like, if we can get Multi-Continental guns in Final Fantasy 7, this isn't anything resembling unreasonable.This is literally how you beat him, yes it is an anti-feat lmao.
So why can't we just say this lava is hot enough to damage Bowser and normal lava isn't? Heat is already considered quasi-Durability Negation anyways.Lava can vary in temperature as I mentioned in the OP. Curious how you missed that.
Alright, then he wasn't even stunned. He was literally just on his back and couldn't get up. You know, Like a turtle. There is zero visual evidence of him actually being damaged, and he's not knocked out or anything like that.Little more than stunned is still an anti-feat!
Not a law, but an EXTREMELY common trope. For example: Majin Buu's body was damaged by bullets, DIO's leg was cut off by a shard of glass, Alucard (Hellsing) is hurt by bullets, Bill Cipher was hurt by a T-Rex's bite, etc...What? No that's not a "law", you just made that up LMAO.
Maybe, but at the same time because this is entirely offscreen and in terms of "Bowser is knocked out" vs "Bowser is completely unharmed and just on his back" we're 1:1 here with onscreen showings. In fact, there's no reason to assume the magic that makes Bowser big revives him or anything like that, so actually there's MORE proof he isn't knocked out than the opposite.Could be he got knocked out or just got the air knocked out of him. There's precedent for the former.
It also dosn't make any logical sense for the castles to be significantly less durable than the people the castle is there to protect, nor does it make sense for the castle walls to be significantly less durable than the person who is attacking the castle. Otherwise, why even build a castle? Also, aren't the SMW castle destruction cutscenes usually written off as gags?One of his castles modified by Fawful. The castles in SMW are as far as we can tell very normal castles. It doesn't make sense for them to be Giant Bowser level anyways given Giant Bowser >> Mario and Mario destroys the World castles in a few hits.
Significantly less stupid when the moon rocks are very clearly supernatural in some regard. Real rocks don't turn gold when you step on them. Also, I'd appriciate it if you cut back on the insults, I have not insulted you in this discussion and I'd like to be repaid in kind.I just want to stress how fucking insane it is to say that a 3-C character cannot destroy a rock formation. Just like, think about it for a second and realize how deeply stupid that is.
Eh? Maybe, but at the same time the beam was only hitting the metal for a short time, and usually a single lightning strike won't melt more durable metals (Though it can melt less durable metals like copper). And that's a matter of heat, not raw power, which as established are different things.Powerful enough electricity will absolutely melt metal.
Goombas are shown able to damage the Koopalings occasionally, can be used as a weapon against the likes of Dark Bowser, are able to play Baseball alongside the main cast as valueable team members... put some respect on their names, man, sure they're stated to be pathetic but "pathetic" is relative. Even as we have their profiles now, Goombas would beat any unarmed IRL human in a fight.See point 8 on the blog. Bowser throws plenty of shit in Mario's way that doesn't scale to him, like y'know, Goombas.
Mario's world is one of fantasy that honestly dosn't try very hard to be in any way similar to the real world. Random galaxy level rocks honestly wouldn't even be the weirdest thing to happen in this series.More durable than normal rock? Sure. 3-C rock? Insane.
How is my interpretation any more of a headcanon than yours? We're interpreting the vocalizations of a turtle.What? No that's just complete headcanon. Your debunks are literally just saying "this doesn't count" and then making up a reason. He's clearly screaming in pain.
No, not an anti-feat. One of the strongest ways a Papercraft can attack is by jumping into the air and falling on people, and this is done from well over five times the height.They're just... falling here. They're not attacking or adding any special kind of energy, they're just dropping. Yes an anti-feat, thank you.
And frankly, I completely understand this take.I'm going to downgrade so many verses if this thread passes
It's mostly relegated to game versesAnd frankly, I completely understand this take.
The downgrades in this thread are blatantly holding Mario to a different standard to how over 90% of the wiki is held, regardless of what the Wiki's standards officially are. If every verse was held to this same standard, Planet level basically wouldn't exist.
Whataboutisms only work if the other examples are actually comparable.Hah! You think showing 50 anti-feats should get this character downgraded from a tier with three feats?
That's exactly the same as Kratos, a character who has author-statements saying that his inability to perform weak feats in games is non-canon.
That's exactly the same as this character with six anti-feats compared to the fifteen feats supporting their current tier.
Nah never happenedSuper Sonic got one-shot by crushing rocks and electricity oh no!!!
This is the exact same as Superman not being able to break a planet, then.Whataboutisms only work if the other examples are actually comparable.
I'm sure Kirby's case is more like that his consistent feats are in the Tier 5 range instead of Tier 8-7 rangeWhataboutisms only work if the other examples are actually comparable.
Just call it an outlier instead of an AP =/= DC scenario. The point of AP =/= DC is so you don't get your Planet level license instantly revoked as soon as you damage another planetary character without destroying Earth, not a free pass for 3-C characters having a hard time breaking boulders or wooden doors.This is the same exact argument as "Kratos can't break a wooden door".
Guns from FF7 are explicitly different from IRL guns and have in-universe evidence supporting them being this powerful.Have you considered the possibility that they're just bombs that are capable of damaging Bowser? Like, if we can get Multi-Continental guns in Final Fantasy 7, this isn't anything resembling unreasonable.
Stop the capThis is the exact same as Superman not being able to break a planet, then.
Is that really an issue when he varies from 7-B, only reaching 5-A at his peak?This is the exact same as Superman not being able to break a planet, then.
I was more responding to the Super Sonic stuff.I'm sure Kirby's case is more like that his consistent feats are in the Tier 5 range instead of Tier 8-7 range
Both are far below Tier 2 (For Kirby) and Tier 3 (For Mario)
Post-Eradicator Superman has failed to destroy planets.Is that really an issue when he varies from 7-B, only reaching 5-A at his peak?
Welp, go grab a dozen scans of that, and make a downgrade thread.Post-Eradicator Superman has failed to destroy planets.
There aren't really any keys to explain this.So can mario have separate keys as a compromise?
The argument for keeping the tier can't stand on it's own merits, so it needs to be justified by pointing out other bad tiers on profiles from different verses. Of course, no other verses matter here at all, so that approach is just a waste of time.What is happening here? Why are we bringing other verses into the mix?
Mario is held to different standards with a head-canon varies tier and scaling to power-ups of enemies he struggles with in base form.The downgrades in this thread are blatantly holding Mario to a different standard to how over 90% of the wiki is held
Mainly because this revision clearly holds Mario to different standards from other verses. Sure, current Mario isn't great, but this isn't better.What is happening here? Why are we bringing other verses into the mix?
There are no hard standards for outliers and consistency. This isn't bringing Mario up to standard, this is just someone with different standards from the last guy walking up and tossing in their five cents.An Outlier is an event or incident that is considered to be completely and irreconcilably inconsistent with a character, entity, group, or series' normal displayed level of power. Outliers are often regarded as unusable in forums debates. However, efforts should be made to try to reconcile outliers with other canon information, and only very extreme examples should be classed as completely unusable. There are often disagreement regarding exactly what constitutes an outlier, and things that are considered as outliers by some might not be considered as such by everyone. Careful judgement should be used in all cases.
I was going to wait until all the anti-feats were addressed in their entirety, but I think this is a good time to say it.This is the same exact argument as "Kratos can't break a wooden door".
I know they were joking about downgrading other verses, but honestly; I've seen anti-feats come up for downgrades far too often.And frankly, I completely understand this take.
The downgrades in this thread are blatantly holding Mario to a different standard to how over 90% of the wiki is held, regardless of what the Wiki's standards officially are. If every verse was held to this same standard, Planet level basically wouldn't exist.