- 3,719
- 2,778
Not in Odyssey.
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Mario AP Downgrade
- Thread starter Armorchompy
- Start date
- Status
- 5,842
- 2,152
I agree with Chomper's disagreement
- 3,323
- 1,861
I can actually see this, as I believe much, if not outright most of fiction is more representative than literal. The issue is, aside from wiki standards, the possibility of the planet's small sizes being literal is not small considering Mario's universe and how it works. Unless there is some more evidence I am not aware of, of course!
- 3,719
- 2,778
Sizes vary constantly in Mario. Even within Galaxy (the first one) the Earth isn't depicted too huge but in games like Odyssey it's depicted as more accurate.
This implies to me everything was sized down in Galaxy. We see from the backgrounds of the World in Galaxy 2 that these are intended to be real cosmological objects, but we can't obviously play through an accurate sized one
This implies to me everything was sized down in Galaxy. We see from the backgrounds of the World in Galaxy 2 that these are intended to be real cosmological objects, but we can't obviously play through an accurate sized one
- 3,719
- 2,778
These show off the backgrounds in Galaxy.
The tweets are from the second game. The first is from the first game. That seems to be the horizon of a planet that spans the entire screen. Pretty accurate depiction I'd say.
If they can show accurate depictions in skyboxes I think that's the intention for the cosmology. A planet should at least be that big in reality but isn't for gameplay
- 604
- 576
Disagree with the OP via Smashor's reasoning
- 522
- 356
I agree with the OP because the power star amp scaling chain is inconsistent and tier 3 is a clear statistical outlier.
- 16,171
- 12,705
- Thread starter
- #409
Ok so- I read everything that was posted while I slept, I'm not sure exactly what to reply to. I struggle to find much to disagree when basically all the arguments were whataboutisms, but it is what it is. If there's something I missed that I should reply to, please make me aware of it.
But no the planets in Galaxy are visibly, blatantly tiny as hell, and no kind of more circumstantial, roundabout evidence is going to change that. At best you're going to prove that there are planets that exist that are normal-sized, but that's obviously the assumption already, given that the one most of the series takes place on exists. Even if you want to draw a distinction between normal-sized planets and tiny planetoids, there isn't much implying the thing he's standing on to be the former.
Believe it or not, even if it were 5-B, the feat would actually fit my proposted ratings- Bowser tanks it from the surface on the planet, which would mean inverse square law would greatly lower the amount of energy he's exposed to: (3.1693021 x 10^33) / (4π((6371000)^2)) = 6.2135324 x 10^18 Joules, High 7-A. You'd likely have to multiply the feat by a bit to account for the fact that he's pretty massive and is therefore exposed to more, but it'd be 6-C at best.
Should I consider you to Agree, or be Neutral?
But no the planets in Galaxy are visibly, blatantly tiny as hell, and no kind of more circumstantial, roundabout evidence is going to change that. At best you're going to prove that there are planets that exist that are normal-sized, but that's obviously the assumption already, given that the one most of the series takes place on exists. Even if you want to draw a distinction between normal-sized planets and tiny planetoids, there isn't much implying the thing he's standing on to be the former.
Believe it or not, even if it were 5-B, the feat would actually fit my proposted ratings- Bowser tanks it from the surface on the planet, which would mean inverse square law would greatly lower the amount of energy he's exposed to: (3.1693021 x 10^33) / (4π((6371000)^2)) = 6.2135324 x 10^18 Joules, High 7-A. You'd likely have to multiply the feat by a bit to account for the fact that he's pretty massive and is therefore exposed to more, but it'd be 6-C at best.
The issue I found with tier 8 is that any rating has several viable feats above it. I'd feel weird capping the franchise at 8-A when I have two or three good Low 7-C calcs, and then a couple of 7-C ones, and so on. The verse has a very consistent "ladder" of calcs all the way to 7-B, at which point I admit that from 7-B to 6-C, it's quite the jump, so that bit is partially more questionable. But I would like the rating to be 7-B, at minimum. Regardless I personally would like to keep the "Mario should be lower than 6-C" conversation in the future- I have no personal interest in downgrading them further, but if others do, I would prefer for that to wait given that it's still in line with my current argument, and would be a continuation for it. As for multiple ratings, I would rather not, given that these ratings are going to applied to what, 60+ profiles? If we gotta we gotta, but I would prefer not.
Should I consider you to Agree, or be Neutral?
Last edited:
- 16,171
- 12,705
- Thread starter
- #410
Ah, since some people brought up the 3-C ratings should remain as an amp- I am neutral towards that. If you can prove that they don't scale to the base cast then they stop being an outlier, and then, they're fine. I do find it pretty weird that after over a year of adamantly maintaining that they do scale to the base cast, people would turn around and claim that they don't... but it is what it is.
(I genuinely don't know what you're voting here)
Last edited:
- 334
- 260
Mario falls beyond infinitely again, jokes aside. I find Armor's reasoning and for outlier's to be reasonable, I agree w/ it. And besides, we're still gonna have Galaxy level Mario with power stars, so we practically didn't lose anything
- 16,171
- 12,705
- Thread starter
- #412
Er, not really, right now that it's scaled to everyone the 3-C rating is an outlier. If a thread were made to change that and keep it as an amp-only rating, then- provided the argument was good- the rating would be fine.
- 334
- 260
WAIT EVERYONE WAS SCALED TO 3-C? That would mean goombas produce more energy then the sun, I was reading through this thread at about 3 AM (its now 5:21 AM) but like jeez. That just screams enormous outlier waiting to happen
- 16,171
- 12,705
- Thread starter
- #414
No, not fodder enemies. Everyone in the main cast, as well as bosses, yeah. But not things like Goombas.
- 334
- 260
Fair, took a glance at the Goomba's and they're MFTL+, also iirc some people argued for galaxy level Goombas. Which is... weird in of itself.
- 16,171
- 12,705
- Thread starter
- #416
i... didn't know that what the hell
- 16,171
- 12,705
- Thread starter
- #418
i see
- 334
- 260
mb btw Armor, forgot to say that cause I had to do something.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,517
- 3,997
Probably needs more discussion on what Mario's new tier should be tho
- 7,904
- 14,966
This is what the proposal has and what the votes currently agree to. I don't see much benefit in dragging it out given we are already at 5 pages
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,517
- 3,997
I'm pretty sure 6-C is only 1 feat which came from the DK serie
- 16,171
- 12,705
- Thread starter
- #424
I think if lesser revisions to the tier are made (such as revising 6-C to be an outlier too and dropping the rating to tier 7/8, or introducing a new higher tier 6 calculation) I would prefer that to be in another thread, it's historically really hard to get much attention to threads that have gone on this long, and there is more than enough consensus for it.
I would still like to keep it open for one more day at least though.
I would still like to keep it open for one more day at least though.
- 12,802
- 5,932
Why tho??? it won't change the outcome of this thread and the derailing will continue even more
- 16,171
- 12,705
- Thread starter
- #426
I guess that's fair, I just don't want people to feel that I'm rushing to get this accepted.
DimeUhDozen
She/Her- 6,261
- 4,819
I never got my answer for where WarioWare stands but that's for another thread, I suppose.
- 16,171
- 12,705
- Thread starter
- #429
Apologies, I didn't see it. Er, relative scaling doesn't change so I don't think characters like Ashley are affected by this thread.
DimeUhDozen
She/Her- 6,261
- 4,819
That's fair.
- 5,842
- 2,152
Just put me on the Disagree vote count for both AP and the unsplitting.
Last edited:
- 15,464
- 5,054
Read the OP, blog, and rolled through the comments, I agree with the thread. There are too many normalized excuses on how to view things that rely on failing to see how what happens in 1 verse isn't the same as what happens in another verse due to a number of factors. Also it's bad faith from my part but since seeing the OP I was expecting a comment disagreeing with everything in a manner that would be easy to disagree back at it, yet that there would be lots of people using that to disagree with the thread w/o seeing not 1 of the errors to be pointed out with that comment. Since that happens every time with threads like this.
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
- 1,554
Why would you downgrade fricking ItRtG? Disagree.
I agree with that. Many verses could be lowered way too much and make way more sense. I do agree with people saying other verses need to be toned down, but not as a reaction but that's because that's the right thing to do.
That's regrettably the problem and can be seen with vs battles some times. Crt are way too vital for that.
Overall I agree with the thread.
- 15,950
- 12,355
Only just got the free time to check the site and saw I was tagged... I'm not reading 5 pages of this (I just skimmed through it and looked at the larger posts). Given the votes, my input is not required here but to explain my stance, I get the OP. Mario has been around for a long time, feats inconsistencies, scaling chain are on the little hecktic side like many game verse due to all the installments and so on. I don't know the verse enough to provide a counter argument to the OP, some the supports/knowledgeable members have already given their thoughts but honestly no matter how we scale them there will be an issue. I'm fine with the OP, but I understand the point made regarding the rating issues others brought up.
- 3,323
- 1,861
In agreement. The tier absolutely should be changed, and the laddering of upscaling is consistent enough that 6-C or tier 7 are both very much feasible.
Magicomethkuon
They/Them- 1,308
- 1,424
For what it's worth, someone indeed made a case for 3-C Goombas here.
Speaking to my soul.
ZespeonGalaxy
He/Him- 1,587
- 1,051
What do you think of the counterarguments?
- Status
Similar threads
