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Maou Gakuin Discussion Thread

JustANormalPerson01 said:
Wait, if an attack that can destroy a 4D structure on layer 1 can just destroy a 3D structure on layer 2, wouldn't that mean that to destroy a 4D structure on layer 2 you should have an infinitely greater AP than the attack that could destroy a 4D structure on layer 1? So tier 1 Anos

Space-time destruction on layer 2>Infinity>3D destruction on layer 1>=Space-time destruction on layer 1>Infinity>3D destruction on layer 1
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I actually had a discussion regarding a similar argument a few months ago.

My argument was basically as follows:

High 3-A is infinite AP and Low 2-C is uncountably infinite AP because there are uncountably infinite 'snapshots' of the 3-D universe in the timeline.
Normally, a single 'snapshot' of an entire universe is either 3-A or High 3-A, so destroying an entire space-time continuum is equivalent to destroying uncountably infinite 'snapshots' of a 3-A/High 3-A structure.
However, the 3-D aspect of a deeper world (this includes a single 'snapshot' of a deeper world) is currently considered to have unquantifiable into Low 2-C durability, so destroying an entire space-time continuum of a deeper world is equivalent to destroying uncountably infinite 'snapshots' of a unquantifiable into Low 2-C durability structure.
Therefore, to destroy the entire 4-D space-time continuum of a deeper world, you would possibly need uncountably infinite greater AP than the baseline Low 2-C AP needed to normally destroy an entire space-time continuum.

After discussing the above argument a bit with people who I consider decently knowledgeable, the following conclusions were reached:

1. We apparently need more evidence that the 3-D aspect of deeper worlds can withstand world-destroying magic from shallower worlds. The only evidence I used at the time were statements from the cosmology blog tho, mainly Balzarondo's statement. I was however told that even if the Silver Water Shogi game was not evidence of higher levels of existence, it could still be used to support idea than deeper world are far superior to shallower worlds, and can therefore withstand world-destroying magic from shallower worlds.
2. Even if it is accepted that a character would need infinitely greater AP to destroy the entire 4-D space-time continuum of a deeper world, apparently that would only mean that characters capable of destroying a deeper world are infinitely higher into Low 2-C by default.

I also asked a kinda similar question to Ultima a while ago (tho I admit my explanations weren't good), and the following was his responses:

"In the scenario you wrote in your first post, it just seems like both layers are 4-D, but one of them is much "stronger" and harder to destroy, because Fire Dew is a force that strengthens basic components of the world, too, and not just its inhabitants. In which case, we'd just treat it the same way we'd treat a character being completely undamaged by an attack from a Low 2-C: Both characters are the same tier, but the one who tanked the attack is unquantifiably stronger than the latter."
Click to expand...

"This scenario makes a mistake in that it automatically assumes that a deeper layer holds uncountably infinite power in comparison to a shallower one without justifying this conclusion in the first place.

I can exemplify why we wouldn't treat it as such in any case by borrowing from the hypothetical that I outlined above, but I can modify it slightly, too: Imagine there are a two Low 2-C characters, both of which exist as the personifications of spacetime continuums, and now suppose that Character A launches an attack at Character B, who is completely undamaged by it, and states that they could effortlessly destroy Character A if they so desire. Once again, we obviously wouldn't rate Character B any further than an unquantifiably higher level of Low 2-C."
Click to expand...

His opinion can possibly change with time and after reading the better explanation provided in the above argument in this post tho, so we definitely shouldn't treat the above responses as absolute.

I ofc plan on presenting the above argument in the cosmology revision CRT, because either way I believe an upgrade is warranted (either infinitely higher into Low 2-C or 1-B), but to increase the chances of the proposed upgrade being accepted, we should preferably gather more evidence that the 3-D aspect of deeper worlds can withstand world-destroying magic from shallower worlds.
 
I can exemplify why we wouldn't treat it as such in any case by borrowing from the hypothetical that I outlined above, but I can modify it slightly, too: Imagine there are a two Low 2-C characters, both of which exist as the personifications of spacetime continuums, and now suppose that Character A launches an attack at Character B, who is completely undamaged by it, and states that they could effortlessly destroy Character A if they so desire. Once again, we obviously wouldn't rate Character B any further than an unquantifiably higher level of Low 2-C."
Click to expand...
Just wanna point out it's not just about characters because bubbles keep on evolving. It's been brought up in novels multiple times order of deeper layers are unquanatbly stronger than shallow layer.

Btw in magic bullet world Arc anos tried to damage gigi source but he couldn't do it because of order of magic bullet world. He needed to adjust to the world order to damage him.

There is an hierarchy exist in SS. And laws and concepts and other things Unquanatbly stronger than one layer to another. Also Shallow layer can't even use their powers or not able to naturally move in deeper layers because of order.

Also i got a scan from chapter 495 about Shallow layer can't even perceive outside world and they would get robbed by deeper layers inhabitants.

Anyway I hope we get some information in LN. Just Transcended word gonna change many things.lol

SS is all about Evolution of bubbles. Pretty much we can either argue for 6D or we can argue for possible 1B.
 
God900 said:
Reaallyyy iffy about that, tho.
Click to expand...
Yeah i agree. Author should have said layer 2 transcended layer 1 and so on for every layers. He kinda given many differences between layers but kinda Little iffy. For now we can just assume.

But I am hoping we get rating atleast 2A, likely 1C, possibly 1B wouldn't be bad.

Bubble is a multiverse. First we should need to upgrade that I think. There are countless gods realms exist inside bubble and each realms have Seperate space time. I don't know why that was disregarded because we already got 2 gods realms with different space time(timelines).

Btw I am hoping we get some information in LN next month

First I need Eques pic. That guy was main antagonist before Silver Sea. We still don't have single pic 😭. Also some more Shin pictures. That guy looks cool😎.
 
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I'm re-reading some chapter... And would be good if we can find statements that can make Anos Cm and Law Infinity above baseline like 99*Infinity instead of uncountably
 
I'm still kinda iffy about Anos' age 2000 Years+ . Where did he get that 2000+ years from? From reincarnating 2000 years to the future?
 
Ian2296 said:
I'm still kinda iffy about Anos' age 2000 Years+ . Where did he get that 2000+ years from? From reincarnating 2000 years to the future?
Click to expand...
His past life was 2K years old.

Militia World is 700millions years old you know. It's not that much of an deal

So Misha is older than Anos ☠️
 
Not yet Valentine's for me but I'm to lazy to wait...

Happy Valentine's guys... An advice.... Don't let me see you with your couple or else
IMG_20220213_214900_591.jpg
 
Fixxed said:
At least, misfit should be stated that reality cannot interack with them. Even though it's only stated "outside" there will still be a very big possibility to get aca 5
Click to expand...
Pretty much Graham nothingness couldn't be affected by Venozdonua. I mean his sources gets destroyed but his pure nothingness couldn't affected by Venozdonua.
Anos currently Fully merged with Graham source. Possibly Acausality type 5 kinda thing.
 
Nightmare_Bloodfallen said:
Pretty much Graham nothingness couldn't be affected by Venozdonua. I mean his sources gets destroyed but his pure nothingness couldn't affected by Venozdonua.
Anos currently Fully merged with Graham source. Possibly Acausality type 5 kinda thing.
Click to expand...
Its because graham lack of...... that why reality cannot interack with he. not transcend of..... that make the reality cannot interack or a better word is reality cannot reach he because reality is bound by causality
 
Orioreeem said:
I mean that's your basis for type 5 acausality so i expect it to be from a novel and not your personal interpretation.
Click to expand...
No, that's just my reply to a comment from dereck, I mean at least if misfit wants to get aca 5 then misfit must be stated if it can't be interacted by reality
 
A recent staff thread prompted me to make this post.
As is evident on Anos' profile page, I created a few decently translated scans a while ago and replaced some justification links that directly linked to the original raw Japanese chapters in his P&A section with these scans. However, it is rather difficult and time-consuming, and I no longer have time to decently translate such scans, especially large ones.

I personally am unfortunately also a bit too strict regarding which scans I think are acceptable to add to Anos' profile, because IMO adding a poorly translated scan without proper context is worse than having no scan linked at all.
Therefore, I would suggest (I think I've suggested something like this before but was ignored?) that any scans that have both the raw Japanese text and at least above average translations (meaning it should at least be better than the translations Fixxed used in his recent CRTs) should be posted in this thread to be evaluated by verse supporters. Again, I personally am unfortunately a bit too strict regarding which scans I think are acceptable, but if the majority of verse supporters here accept a certain translated scan, I would also be fine with having it added to Anos' profile.

I can also help with translations for scans if I have the time, tho my translations obviously aren't great since I'm not a native Japanese speaker. (I do however usually confirm whether or not a translation is at least decently accurate by asking presumably reliable offsite translators.)

While it's fine to use the unofficial translations of the WN in scans, I believe it is still necessary to add the raw Japanese text in the scan, since the unofficial translations (both old and new) are not actually as reliable as people might think.

Also regarding references, recently it seems that most Maou Gakuin verse supporters (tho I think it's mostly @Dereck03. Thank you, Dereck.) usually by default add a reference to a justification if possible, but I just want to remind others that it is strongly recommended to add references to a justification, even if you can't add a scan.
 
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here's a possible scan for Anos I just create for his 2-A true power

I've already created this and this long time ago so they can be used again

I'mma try to help with others later, I'm in an exam rn and it's hard to do in phone


Edit. Finally I'm done with exam, when I'm at home I'll continue trying to create the imgurs
 
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Dereck03 said:
Here's a possible scan for Anos I just create for his 2-A true power.
Click to expand...
I would be fine with adding this scan to Anos' profile, as the translation quality at least seems to be above average.

Dereck03 said:
I've already created this and this long time ago so they can be used again.
Click to expand...
The translation quality also seems fine (I think I provided the translations a while ago?), but it would be preferable to add more context to the scan if possible, since "single dialogue" scans are not ideal.

If a few more verse supporters accept the translated scans as is tho, then you can add them to Anos' profile page.
 
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@Ian2296, I think I've seen you complain about Anos' justification links recently, so if you actually have scans you want to add to Anos' profile page, please post them here.
The difference between one of your scans and one of my scans isn't even much IMO, so I personally would likely be fine with adding any of your scans (as I've already done before) as long as the scans still have the raw Japanese text and the translation quality remains at least above average as it currently is.
 
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I created another possible scan of Anos resisting Aberneyu's Sun of Destruction

Tho I had problems translating the spell Anos use to rob Aberneyu's magic power, so I simply translated it to

Magic Robbery Spell <Gaga Gyeongyeol> (If anyone has an accurate translation then share it with me)

I don't have my pc rn so I'm doing it with phone. Kinda pain in the ass tbh

Edit. Currently the ingur only lets me put Magic Robbery Spell, but when I type <Gaga Gyeongyeol> and save it the changes don't appear, so it will have to stay as Magic Robbery Spell only.
 
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Dereck03 said:
I created another possible scan of Anos resisting Aberneyu's Sun of Destruction.
Click to expand...
The translation quality seems fine, and there is enough text for decent context, so I would be fine with adding this scan to Anos' profile.

Dereck03 said:
Currently imgur only lets me put Magic Robbery Spell, but when I type <Gaga Gyeongyeol> and save it the changes don't appear, so it will have to stay as Magic Robbery Spell only.
Click to expand...
Try replacing any instance using "<...>" with "[...]".
 
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