Maou Gakuin Discussion Thread

[MaxLevel_King]

To affect all the worlds of a deep layer means to affect the deep order, the deeper the order then the more impact it will have on the sea, hence the scan I provided where it shows that all the order is connected to the silver sea. That is why it is listed as a threat.

It was never stated that the Vortex affected all the Worlds in a deep layer. On top of that, you're making a comparison between Deep Worlds (which are insignificantally small compared to the Silver Sea) and the Silver Sea itself.

 

[Dereck03]

The ship example was a Ship from a Deep World being compared to a Shallow World. How do you take that to mean that a Layer 2 ship is more durable than a Layer 1 World?

What? Did you even read that what you said and compare is the same?

If you unleash your shallow, world-destroying magic, you will not be able to destroy a single ship here."

A ship (3-D) from a deeper world is more durable than a shallow world (5-D). That's the difference between layers.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

I guess someone should learn how to scale before trying to downgrade a verse

That's like saying affecting the planets in a universe makes you universal. Similarly, the Vortex damaged small worlds in the Silver Sea. Nowhere was it stated to have affected the Silver Sea between the Worlds.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

What? Did you even read that what you said and compare is the same?

A ship (3-D) from a deeper world is more durable than a shallow world (5-D). That's the difference between layers.

???
You won't destroy a single ship here (from a Deep World).

 

[Robo432343]

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

 

[Dereck03]

It was never stated that the Vortex affected all the Worlds in a deep layer. On top of that, you're making a comparison between Deep Worlds (which are insignificantally small compared to the Silver Sea) and the Silver Sea itself.

You have to read better what I said, what I said was that by affecting so many small worlds, the deeper order was being affected, the order is connected to the silver sea, that is why if the threat was allowed to continue then it would affect the silver sea through the order, I never said that affecting a world = affecting the silver sea if not the order, since it is the same that exists across the entire silver sea that is why it is said that it was a threat to the silver sea and that is why the destruction of reason is proven to be counter of the order in its totality.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

You have to read better what I said, what I said was that by affecting so many small worlds, the deeper order was being affected, the order is connected to the silver sea, that is why if the threat was allowed to continue then it would affect the silver sea through the order, I never said that affecting a world = affecting the silver sea if not the order, since it is the same that exists across the entire silver sea that is why it is said that it was a threat to the silver sea and that is why the destruction of reason is proven to be counter of the order in its totality.

Funny he is ignoring the part vortex was never stated to threat for a world instead it was Specifically stated as calamity of Silver Sea.

 

[Dereck03]

You won't destroy a single ship here (from a Deep World).

What? Don't tell me you don't know how to interpret what was said? 3-D object from layer 2 > 5-D universe from layer 1 and so on, that's the difference between layers.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

You have to read better what I said, what I said was that by affecting so many small worlds, the deeper order was being affected, the order is connected to the silver sea, that is why if the threat was allowed to continue then it would affect the silver sea through the order, I never said that affecting a world = affecting the silver sea if not the order, since it is the same that exists across the entire silver sea that is why it is said that it was a threat to the silver sea and that is why the destruction of reason is proven to be counter of the order in its totality.

How was the "deeper Order" being affected? What Orders in these Worlds were being affected?

 

[MaxLevel_King]

What? Don't tell me you don't know how to interpret what was said? 3-D object from layer 2 > 5-D universe from layer 1 and so on, that's the difference between layers.

That's not what the statement meant. You're taking Balzarondo's statement to mean something that it didn't. When he said "in this deeper world" he was referring to a Deep World. He didn't say that any Deeper World could withstand shallow world-destroying magic.

In the first place, shallow world-destroying magic is magic that can destroy Shallow Worlds (Layers 1-10). Shallow World-destroying magic could've referred to any world-destroying magic that originated from Layers 1-10.

 

[Dereck03]

How was the "deeper Order" being affected? What Orders in these Worlds were being affected?

Didn't you read all the scan I posted before and that you supposedly agreed with?

Each world maintains the order of the world, the deeper it is the stronger the order of the world that flows from the shallow layers to the deeper ones across the entire SS, the order of the world is connected and guided completely by the order of the silver sea, when it was affected then the threat was growing, that's why it was treated as a threat and calamity for the Silver Sea. As I said, the whole order is the same as that of the silver sea but we already know that there are higher orders than others and above that of the silver sea.

 

[Dereck03]

That's not what the statement meant. You're taking Balzarondo's statement to mean something that it didn't. When he said "in this deeper world" he was referring to a Deep World. He didn't say that any Deeper World could withstand shallow world-destroying magic.

hahaha, no my friend, you are taking things out of context. Balzarondo made the statment comparing the strength of the shallow worlds compared to the deep worlds.

"In this small world, which exists deeper than your small world, the power of everything is in another dimension. Strength, speed, toughness, magic power, everything. Even the resistance of a grain of air would be a weight to you. If you unleash your shallow, world-destroying magic, you will not be able to destroy a single ship here."

This difference applies every time you enter a new layer and as I clearly stated in the scans it is because of the magic power and the order that the deeper it gets the more powerful it is. And it is clearly stated that if you want to match the power of someone from a deeper layer to yours you have to use <Drum> with the fire dew as a catalyst. I won't go into the whole Drum thing since it's in the blog, that's what it takes for all your power to make a difference, but it consumes an immense amount of magical power.

As they entered a new layer, each time our protagonists were outmatched in power but did not require fire dew to make up the difference due to being inhabitants of the militant world.

In the first place, shallow world-destroying magic is magic that can destroy Shallow Worlds (Layers 1-10). Shallow World-destroying magic could've referred to any world-destroying magic that originated from Layers 1-10.

The inhabitants of layer 2 will continue to refer to the inhabitants of layer 3 as inhabitants of deep worlds as well as those of layer 3 with those of layer 4 and so on.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

Didn't you read all the scan I posted before and that you supposedly agreed with?

Each world maintains the order of the world, the deeper it is the stronger the order of the world that flows from the shallow layers to the deeper ones across the entire SS, the order of the world is connected and guided completely by the order of the silver sea, when it was affected then the threat was growing, that's why it was treated as a threat and calamity for the Silver Sea. As I said, the whole order is the same as that of the silver sea but we already know that there are higher orders than others and above that of the silver sea.

Every World has a bunch of different Orders. By the "whole order" are you referring to the special characteristic that each World has, or literally every Order it has? Then, for example, how were the Orders of Time affected by the Vortex damaging many Worlds?

It is the Order of the Silver Sea that the Deeper a World, the stronger it's Order. But how is the Order of a Deep World or even many Deep Worlds comparable to the Silver Sea itself? Again, a Deep World and it's Order is insignificant compared to the Silver Sea as a whole.

 

[Dereck03]

Fire Dew is an order that exists across the entire silver sea. Fire Dew is an order that exists across the entire silver sea following the order and in the end every order is governed by a greater order and then the reason, if the order or the reason for it is destroyed, then everything that governs that order will be destroyed, even the orders of the smaller worlds are connected in the silver sea, only their influence on it is minimal due to the difference in order, destroying the greater order would be equivalent to affecting the whole order and what governs it, so affecting the firew dew or destroying the order of the silver sea would completely destroy the silver sea and that is where reason comes into play, which we already know is superior to order, reason and order is destroyed then everything will be destroyed.

Anyway, here is the main thing of everything, the reason which Venuzdonoa and Anos can destroy, nobody could debunk or say anything about the reason being superior to everything in the verse.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

hahaha, no my friend, you are taking things out of context. Balzarondo made the statment comparing the strength of the shallow worlds compared to the deep worlds.

This difference applies every time you enter a new layer and as I clearly stated in the scans it is because of the magic power and the order that the deeper it gets the more powerful it is. And it is clearly stated that if you want to match the power of someone from a deeper layer to yours you have to use <Drum> with the fire dew as a catalyst. I won't go into the whole Drum thing since it's in the blog, that's what it takes for all your power to make a difference, but it consumes an immense amount of magical power.

As they entered a new layer, each time our protagonists were outmatched in power but did not require fire dew to make up the difference due to being inhabitants of the militant world.

The inhabitants of layer 2 will continue to refer to the inhabitants of layer 3 as inhabitants of deep worlds as well as those of layer 3 with those of layer 4 and so on.

1. No. He was comparing "this deeper world (A Deep World)" with a Shallow World. While Worlds 1 layer below would be stronger than Worlds 1 layer above, it isn't the same difference between the deeper world (A Deep World) and a Shallow World in Balzarondo's statement.

2. Completely incorrect. There has never been a time in the story where the residents of a Shallow World have referred to a deeper Shallow World as a Deep World. The only Worlds referred to as Deep Worlds are Worlds in Layers 21-99+.

 

[Dereck03]

Every World has a bunch of different Orders. By the "whole order" are you referring to the special characteristic that each World has, or literally every Order it has? Then, for example, how were the Orders of Time affected by the Vortex damaging many Worlds?

Again, many worlds were being damaged by the vortex, each world has its order and not just one, we already know that in each world there is the Azure Sky of Gods that contains the countless realms of the gods so order is involved, the order of all the worlds is directly connected to the silver sea did you understand? Since all the order whether shallow or deeper is the same in all the silver sea. And as we know the deeper the order, then the more effect it will have due to the power of it which is limited to (for now) 99 layers, because the order was being affected it was determined as a threat and calamity because if it continued it would affect the silver sea since all the order is connected to it and flows through the layers.

It is the Order of the Silver Sea that the Deeper a World, the stronger it's Order. But how is the Order of a Deep World or even many Deep Worlds comparable to the Silver Sea itself? Again, a Deep World and it's Order is insignificant compared to the Silver Sea as a whole.

As I said, the order flowing in the worlds and layers is the same order of the silver sea, and affecting the deeper ones will cause a major impact on the overall structure of the order flowing in the silver sea. And you say it is insignificant but forget that it is the same order but limited to a small scale.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

There is an Vortex Exists in Abyssal World ( more of Great Demon King world ) which was stated to be the Calamity of the Silver Sea itself and it also affected the Silver Sea in the past. Elmide created a puppet to break through that vortex. And Anos stomped that puppet.

Elmide Puppet states only a vortex can interfere with another Vortex and spammed a Vortex against Anos it should have same power otherwise he wouldn't have said that. Anos stomps that vortex with reason manipulation which his eyes and Venozdonor has. So its not NLF.

Ok. Then put that justification in the profile

 

[Dereck03]

1. No. He was comparing "this deeper world (A Deep World)" with a Shallow World. While Worlds 1 layer below would be stronger than Worlds 1 layer above, it isn't the same difference between the deeper world (A Deep World) and a Shallow World in Balzarondo's statement.

What you say goes completely against what is stated about the flow of the silver sea order in which it is mentioned that the deeper the layer the more powerful the order is in general and it will continue to flow from the shallow layers to the deeper ones.

2. Completely incorrect. There has never been a time in the story where the residents of a Shallow World have referred to a deeper Shallow World as a Deep World. The only Worlds referred to as Deep Worlds are Worlds in Layers 21-99+.

Inhabitants from a world located in layer 1 would refer to a world located in layer 2 as a deeper world (or deep world when compared to the depth of their world), and inhabitants from a world located in layer 22 would refer to a world located in layer 21 as a shallower world (or shallow world when compared to the depth of their world).

 

[Dereck03]

@MaxLevel_King almost 2 am here so it's time for me to preparing to sleep so i can't keep.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

What you say goes completely against what is stated about the flow of the silver sea order in which it is mentioned that the deeper the layer the more powerful the order is in general and it will continue to flow from the shallow layers to the deeper ones.

Inhabitants from a world located in layer 1 would refer to a world located in layer 2 as a deeper world (or deep world when compared to the depth of their world), and inhabitants from a world located in layer 22 would refer to a world located in layer 21 as a shallower world (or shallow world when compared to the depth of their world).

He hasn't read the series can't be helped.

Chapter 668

　The moment Avinika turns around, I thrusts my jet-black fingertips into his left breast.

　But it doesn't stick.

　The fingertip, which would slice through even Yzark the Calamity if it hit him squarely, is blocked by his chestplate alone.

Despite the Eve Zenio and Magic Bullet World were both Being Deep Worlds Anos who was able to hurt Yzàrk couldn't even destroy a chest plate in Magic Bullet World.

 

[Dereck03]

Despite Being the Deep Worlds Anos who was able to hurt Yzàrk couldn't even destroy a chest plate in Magic Bullet World.

Before I left, I remember that not even <Besbed> (which is concept manipulation) was able to even scratch the skin of the deeper world inhabitants so yeah.

 

[Robo432343]

fr 8d anos

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Before I left, I remember that not even <Besbed> was able to even scratch the skin of the deeper world inhabitants so yeah.

Yzàrk was tanking world Destroying spells like

Raviaz Gilg Gaverizd​

 

[MaxLevel_King]

What you say goes completely against what is stated about the flow of the silver sea order in which it is mentioned that the deeper the layer the more powerful the order is in general and it will continue to flow from the shallow layers to the deeper ones.

Inhabitants from a world located in layer 1 would refer to a world located in layer 2 as a deeper world (or deep world when compared to the depth of their world), and inhabitants from a world located in layer 22 would refer to a world located in layer 21 as a shallower world (or shallow world when compared to the depth of their world).

1. No, it doesn't. A World in Layer 2 will always be stronger than a World in Layer 1. However, the difference in power between those two worlds isn't the same as the difference in power between the Deep World that Balzarondo was referring to and a Shallow World.

2. You're just parroting the blog at this point. I know that was stated in the blog. However, it's simply incorrect. That was never stated in the story itself. There is no argument to be had here.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

@MaxLevel_King almost 2 am here so it's time for me to preparing to sleep so i can't keep.

Have a good sleep.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

He hasn't read the series can't be helped.

Chapter 668

Despite the Eve Zenio and Magic Bullet World were both Being Deep Worlds Anos who was able to hurt Yzàrk couldn't even destroy a chest plate in Magic Bullet World.

I have. I stopped somewhere during the beginning of the Magic Bullet World arc a couple years ago. I'm planning on rereading the entire series at some point in the future.

You can't be telling me that I haven't read the series when you were trying to argue against Evezeino and Hyphoria crashing into each other.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

Before I left, I remember that not even <Besbed> (which is concept manipulation) was able to even scratch the skin of the deeper world inhabitants so yeah.

The concept manipulation part only comes into play when it's actually touching the source. Before that however, it just increases piercing power.

You would only have a point to make if <Bebesed> touched a deeper world inhabitant's source and it didn't do anything.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

Again, many worlds were being damaged by the vortex, each world has its order and not just one, we already know that in each world there is the Azure Sky of Gods that contains the countless realms of the gods so order is involved, the order of all the worlds is directly connected to the silver sea did you understand? Since all the order whether shallow or deeper is the same in all the silver sea. And as we know the deeper the order, then the more effect it will have due to the power of it which is limited to (for now) 99 layers, because the order was being affected it was determined as a threat and calamity because if it continued it would affect the silver sea since all the order is connected to it and flows through the layers.

As I said, the order flowing in the worlds and layers is the same order of the silver sea, and affecting the deeper ones will cause a major impact on the overall structure of the order flowing in the silver sea. And you say it is insignificant but forget that it is the same order but limited to a small scale.

A World being damaged doesn't mean that it's Order has been damaged. Order isn't made up of the World, the World is made up of Order.

Even if the World is destroyed, that doesn't mean that the World's Order has been, as Order exists even before the Creator God creates the World.

The Vortex damaging Deep Worlds doesn't equate to it damaging said Worlds' Order.

You need to prove how a World being destroyed also means that it's Order (which existed before the World itself) would be destroyed before any arguments can be made for the Vortex.

 

[Robo432343]

fr anos is so wanked rn

 

[Robo432343]

but i agree with 1-B anos

 

[Dog3352]

The guy is changing the entire cosmology according to the voices in his mind to make a debunk.

 

[Tatsumi504]

The concept manipulation part only comes into play when it's actually touching the source. Before that however, it just increases piercing power.

No. Bebesd always ignores durability and directly grabs the source. It's only stopped by another Bebesd, weapons like magic swords with considerable power to interact with the source. Against yzak the thing couldn't even get past his skin

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The guy is changing the entire cosmology according to the voices in his mind to make a debunk.

At this point I will ignore him. He is just based as hell to downgrade the verse. Who knows he is Tensura fanboy may be want to make another matchups for Anos vs Rimuru. Not to mention how he ignores the fact even if Venozdonor rating for Silver Sea gets removed it's still low 1C and trying to downgrade it to 2A

 

[MaxLevel_King]

At this point I will ignore him. He is just based as hell to downgrade the verse. Who knows he is Tensura fanboy may be want to make another matchups for Anos vs Rimuru. Not to mention how he ignores the fact even if Venozdonor rating for Silver Sea gets removed it's still low 1C and trying to downgrade it to 2A

I don't care about making matchups in favor of one character or another. I care about accuracy.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

The guy is changing the entire cosmology according to the voices in his mind to make a debunk.

I'm not "changing" the cosmology. I'm trying to change the inaccurate interpretation of it that is currently accepted. Here's what we know about the cosmology;

1. At least 99+ Layers (Layers are said to be infinite in size)
2. Countless Bubbles (Worlds) in each Layer
3. Fire Dew flows from Shallow to Deep
4. Worlds recieve Fire Dew from Worlds in the Layer above
5. The more Fire Dew a World has, the more it sinks into the depths of the Silver Sea, and the stronger everything in that World is

Here's what's inaccurate;
1. "Each layer transcends the previous layer" - For one, layers are merely the location that Worlds reside in the Silver Sea. What's superior are the Worlds themselves, due to the amount of Fire Dew they have that causes them to sink into deeper layers. For two, each World is superior to Worlds 1 Layer above. Because Fire Dew flows from Shallow to Deep, it's only natural that Worlds are superior in strength to Worlds 1 layer above. However, there is absolutely no transcendence between a difference of 1 layer. That was never stated or demonstrated anywhere in the story, and it comes from a misconception about Balzarondo's statement.

2. "A spell that can destroy a 5D structure can't even destroy a 3D ship from a deeper World" - This statement doesn't apply to any Deeper World. When Balzarondo said "in this deeper world" he was referring to a Deep World, and the difference between that Deep World and the shallow Militia World. That doesn't mean that any deeper World's ship can't be destroyed by a shallow World-destroying magic, that's not what Balzarondo was referring to, and you'd have to ignore the entire context of that statement to come to the conclusion that it is.

3. "A World in Layer 1 would refer to a World in Layer 2 as a Deep World" - This is just outright wrong. Never in the story has this happened. There has never been a case in the story where a Shallow World referred to a deeper Shallow World as a "Deep World". The only Worlds referred to as Deep Worlds are Worlds in Layers 21-99+.

The MGnF blog has a lot of reliable evidence and scans backing up information. However, some of the information in the blog wasn't actually stated (at all in the story) in the scans used, and is just a misconcieved interpretation of the scans. If you really want to confirm this, check the blog for the points I argued against. There are no scans that say that say that layers transcend each other, no scans that say that a World recieves Fire Dew from all the Worlds above it, no scans that say that a Shallow World refers to a deeper Shallow World as a "Deep World", none of this is ever stated elsewhere in the story, and the context of the story itself doesn't support these claims either.

I need to completely get this out of the way. I am a fan of MGnF. It's actually one of my favorite series. I don't dislike this verse, or dislike Anos, or anything like that. I also couldn't care less about which character can or can't beat Anos. It's a stupid assumption to make that someone trying to downgrade a character's current tier automatically means that they dislike the character. What I care about is Anos' tier being as accurate as possible, not being as wanked as possible so that they can beat a bunch of other characters in debates. And the current justifications for Anos scaling to the Silver Sea is absolute wank.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Don’t listen to him everyone, he’s a lost cause

 

[Dereck03]

Lol, yesterday I started watching a few episodes of Maou season 1 and now it's weird to hear Anos' old voice.... Or is it that I have mixed feelings? Maybe I want to hear Anos saying souka with Goblin slayer's voice.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

Don’t listen to him everyone, he’s a lost cause

You admitted to not being knowledgable on the series. You have no room to say this.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

For that matter, despite most fans on here agreeing with everything on the cosmology page, none of them have proven that every claim made on that page is true (ie "Layer transcendence", "Shallow World-destroying magic not being able to damage a ship from any deeper World", "Layer 2 World being called a Deep World by a Layer 1 World"). In order to do that, you would need to provide scans that support these claims (which aren't on the cosmology page), and that would be impossible as none of these claims have ever been stated or demonstrated in the story.

It's not like I don't understand why people trust everything stated in the blog. Most of the information stated in the blog is in fact correct, there are scans that back up most claims made in the blog, and there are links to the sources of the scans. However, the problem is that some of the claims made in the blog (the ones I've brought up) aren't actually supported by the scans used for them (or have no scans at all), and are merely incorrect assumptions that include things that the scan itself didn't actually state, and the context of the scan doesn't support.

Edit: The reasoning used for "Layer transcendence" is that since there are countless Worlds in each Layer, a World in Layer 2 would receive Fire Dew from countless Worlds in Layer 1. This isn't true. Fire Dew flows down from countless Layer 1 Worlds into countless Layer 2 Worlds (ie a countless amount of Fire Dew from Layer 1 is being distributed to countless Layer 2 Worlds), meaning that a single Layer 2 World isn't receiving Fire Dew from countless Layer 1 Worlds. imZer0Null was equating countless to mean infinite (which would mean that a single Layer 2 World would receive Fire Dew from infinite Layer 1 Worlds regardless), but countless and infinite are two different things. Countless still refers to a finite number, just one that can't reasonably be counted. In other words, the entire reasoning for "Layer transcendence" falls apart because it equates countless Worlds to mean infinite Worlds and thus any World would receive infinite Fire Dew when that just isn't the case.