Maou Gakuin Discussion Thread

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Off-topic eldemade but I wish I had a device that can scan people’s pfp pictures so i would know what series their from without having to ask the users where the Character is from

 

[MaxLevel_King]

Dude, I have no idea who you are, but every MGK scaling and tier so far is perfectly structured, the Nafta World, the other numerous shrines, the bubble worlds, etc. All are very well detailed in the profiles and on the cosmology blog, it just seems that this wiki has a certain hatred of the verse.

For one, I don't hate this verse. For two, when did I say anything about the cosmology's tier being wrong?

 

[MaxLevel_King]

Ignore him don't feed him too much.

You say that like I'm some kind of troll or MGnF hater. I like the series, I simply disagree where Anos' current tier should be, as I feel that it isn't accurate.

In any case, how do you think that you have the grounds to say that? You've both constantly twisted people's words (including mine) throughout the thread while also jumping straight to calling me a liar whenever I made a claim about the series that you didn't know. Pretty much all of your arguments were "I know what I'm talking about and you don't" and trying to call me ignorant of the series. You've even went out of your way to claim that I haven't read the series and that I should stop acting like I should. You're entire argument style is just trying to act like you're superior to whoever it is that you're arguing against.

You are the absolute last person who should be implying that someone else is a troll. You're also one of the worst representatives of the MGnF fandom. Not because of where you believe Anos scales or anything like that, but because of how you act in debates.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

For that matter, there are a few of you who are trolls that like to talk down on people who disagree with you and constantly like each other's comments. Opinion on MGnF scaling aside, it's a shame that you guys are some of the representatives of this fandom on here.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

 

[MaxLevel_King]

Right. And yet you still went out of your way to comment this. You're making a fool out of yourself.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

 

[MaxLevel_King]

Damn, you posted gifs. You must be the clear winner of this interaction.

In all seriousness though, you are a clown.

Feel free to respond with another irrelevant gif, but I won't waste my time replying to it.

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

Someone’s being salty

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Next time if that guy create a same exactly thread with same exactly reason, just dont reply it, just ignore it

4 times try to downgrade venuzdonoa and still get rejected

I think 4 different people trying to downgrade Venuzdonoa because "all creation" seems NLFish is a good sign that the description must be improved

 

[Dereck03]

I think 4 different people trying to downgrade Venuzdonoa because "all creation" seems NLFish is a good sign that the description must be improved

I'm willing to do so, but what's NLF about it? It has proven to being able to destroy everything in the creation so i dont see NLF.

 

[Robo432343]

is making anos vs arceus matches actually banned

 

[Dereck03]

is making anos vs arceus matches actually banned

 

[Robo432343]

arceus is 6d now so i thot it would be fair

 

[Dereck03]

arceus is 6d now so i thot it would be fair

Its haxs aren't so anos just erase, that's a stomp match so no.

 

[theultimate5105]

is making anos vs arceus matches actually banned

Yes
Also it was banned back when they were 2-As
Arceus doesn’t have any 6-D hax although using the arguments against it neither do the vast majority of Tier 1s

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

I'm willing to do so, but what's NLF about it? It has proven to being able to destroy everything in the creation so i dont see NLF.

Maybe adding the scan of it working on higher layers, or just add a note on its profile explaining the counter arguments of the CRTs would be better than a discussion rule

 

[Everything12]

Yes
Also it was banned back when they were 2-As
Arceus doesn’t have any 6-D hax although using the arguments against it neither do the vast majority of Tier 1s

It does have it's conceptual manipulation, but that isn't going to help much here 6D or not.

 

[Dereck03]

Also it was banned back when they were 2-As

Was the thread even concluded?

 

[Everything12]

Was the thread even concluded?

Yep.

 

[Dereck03]

Hmm, I see, I didn't knew it was concluded, I thought that thread was dead.

 

[Tatsumi504]

According to the Order of the Silver Sea, Chief Gods are the strongest beings of their World. Therefore, according to this Order, Yzak scales above the Lions of Destruction. Lions of Destruction aren't misfits according to the Order of Evezeino, because the LoD's very power comes from all of the cravings in Evezeino. Their power is the very incarnation of Evezeino's cravings.

Nope. The abyss of craving was formed when different cravings all across the sea pooled in evezeino. Its not just craving from evezeino

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

I think 4 different people trying to downgrade Venuzdonoa because "all creation" seems NLFish is a good sign that the description must be improved

There is an Vortex Exists in Abyssal World ( more of Great Demon King world ) which was stated to be the Calamity of the Silver Sea itself and it also affected the Silver Sea in the past. Elmide created a puppet to break through that vortex. And Anos stomped that puppet.

Elmide Puppet states only a vortex can interfere with another Vortex and spammed a Vortex against Anos it should have same power otherwise he wouldn't have said that. Anos stomps that vortex with reason manipulation which his eyes and Venozdonor has. So its not NLF.

 

[Tatsumi504]

The "any" part wasn't actually stated in the example of how Fire Dew flows from shallow to deep. While it's true that Deep Worlds recieve Fire Dew from Shallow Worlds, they don't recieve Fire Dew from "any" Shallow World above them.

They literally do but rather than receive, the firedew leaks out into the silver which is what the deeper worlds compete for it.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Someone’s being salty

 

[Tatsumi504]

arceus is 6d now so i thot it would be fair

Yes
Also it was banned back when they were 2-As
Arceus doesn’t have any 6-D hax although using the arguments against it neither do the vast majority of Tier 1s

When did Arceus become 6D? How did i miss it?

 

[MaxLevel_King]

They literally do but rather than receive, the firedew leaks out into the silver which is what the deeper worlds compete for it.

Deep Worlds could recieve Fire Dew from any Shallow World, but that doesn't mean that each individual Deep World recieves Fire Dew from all the Worlds in the Layer above it. I know that's stated in the blog, but that's not stated in the story, or in the example used in the blog.

It's because of this reasoning that there is the assumption that destroying a World in Layer 2 = Destroying all Layer 1 Worlds when it's just flat out wrong. And then people take this notion further by claiming that Destroying all Layer 1 Worlds = Destroying Layer 1. Destroying Bubbles in Layer 1 would have no effect on the Sea in Layer 1.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

There is an Vortex Exists in Abyssal World ( more of Great Demon King world ) which was stated to be the Calamity of the Silver Sea itself and it also affected the Silver Sea in the past. Elmide created a puppet to break through that vortex. And Anos stomped that puppet.

Elmide Puppet states only a vortex can interfere with another Vortex and spammed a Vortex against Anos it should have same power otherwise he wouldn't have said that. Anos stomps that vortex with reason manipulation which his eyes and Venozdonor has. So its not NLF.

How does "Calamity of the Silver Sea" mean that it's a threat to the Silver Sea itself? What it's a threat to is the Worlds in the Silver Sea.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

 

[Dereck03]

@Tatsumi504 @EldemadeDityjon

"The World's depth is the strength of the World's Order. It refers to the great influence the Small Worlds have on the Silver Sea. Magic power flows from the Shallow Layer to the Deep Layer, and the Order exerts its power from Shallow to Deep."

The world's order, as well as its magical power and the power of order flow from the shallow layers to the deeper layers, here we can see that the order of the worlds is the same as that of the layers.

"Do you mean a Sovereign Conformist?"
"They are the Sovereign Conformist and a conformist of an evolved world. The Chief God sniffs out those who are suitable for his world according to his order."
[...]
"The Chief God will choose a king of the world from among the conformists. This will create a Sovereign, and the bubble world will evolve into a silver bubble."
It seems almost certain that the reincarnation of the world to align the order was the same result as the evolution to the silver bubble.
"Is there any other way to evolve?"
"No, there is not. All small worlds follow this evolutionary process. Let them be guided by the order of the Silver Sea."

When a world evolves it is guided by the order of the chief god which in turn is guided by the order of the silver sea which gives a direct connection to the order of the silver sea in each small world.

"The World's depth is the strength of the World's Order. It refers to the great influence the Small Worlds have on the Silver Sea. Magic power flows from the Shallow Layer to the Deep Layer, and the Order exerts its power from Shallow to Deep."

"According to the Order of the Silver Sea, magic power flows to the deep layer and the Order exerts its power to the depths. The magic power of the Shallow Layer World shifts by one, same for its Order."

"It's actually not that simple, but this is the basic principle of the Silver Sea's Order. A small world that possesses numerous magic power and a strong functioning Order is heavy and sinks into the depths. Thus, it is considered deep."

It is mentioned here that the force of the world's depth is the force of the world order, which flows through the silver sea and layers guided by the order of the silver sea.

"That understanding is fine, but the fire dew belongs to no one. It is an order in the Silver Sea. The fire dew is something that travels across the sea and through various bubbles."
[...]
"Magic power flows from shallow to deep, and fire dew flows from shallow to deep."

Fire Dew is an order that exists across the entire silver sea. Fire Dew is an order that exists across the entire silver sea following the order and in the end every order is governed by a greater order and then the reason, if the order or the reason for it is destroyed, then everything that governs that order will be destroyed, even the orders of the smaller worlds are connected in the silver sea, only their influence on it is minimal due to the difference in order, destroying the greater order would be equivalent to affecting the whole order and what governs it, so affecting the firew dew or destroying the order of the silver sea would completely destroy the silver sea and that is where reason comes into play, which we already know is superior to order, reason and order is destroyed then everything will be destroyed.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

@Tatsumi504 @EldemadeDityjon

The world's order, as well as its magical power and the power of order flow from the shallow layers to the deeper layers, here we can see that the order of the worlds is the same as that of the layers.


When a world evolves it is guided by the order of the chief god which in turn is guided by the order of the silver sea which gives a direct connection to the order of the silver sea in each small world.


It is mentioned here that the force of the world's depth is the force of the world order, which flows through the silver sea and layers guided by the order of the silver sea.


Fire Dew is an order that exists across the entire silver sea. Fire Dew is an order that exists across the entire silver sea following the order and in the end every order is governed by a greater order and then the reason, if the order or the reason for it is destroyed, then everything that governs that order will be destroyed, even the orders of the smaller worlds are connected in the silver sea, only their influence on it is minimal due to the difference in order, destroying the greater order would be equivalent to affecting the whole order and what governs it, so affecting the firew dew or destroying the order of the silver sea would completely destroy the silver sea and that is where reason comes into play, which we already know is superior to order, reason and order is destroyed then everything will be destroyed.

I know that, and I agree with all of that. However, nothing of what you posted says or proves that a Layer 2 World = All Layer 1 Worlds. That doesn't change the fact that a Layer 2 World is still superior to a Layer 1 World however.

Edit: If that comment wasn't meant for me, then feel free to ignore this one

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

@Tatsumi504 @EldemadeDityjon

"That's right. The great disaster of the Silver Water Sacred Sea that occurred in the past - the Great Vortex . Many small worlds were damaged by it. My world of magic bullets is no exception, and suffered tremendous damage."

　Audus continued his explanation in an orderly and logical manner.

"In order to prevent a Great Vortex from occurring, the vortex must be eliminated at the time of its creation. That is the purpose of the Silver World Magic Bullet Zonaid."

I think this is enough of a proof. If you guys want to argue that way fine but many people who doesn't understand how reason works Disagrees sadly

 

[MaxLevel_King]

I think this is enough of a proof. If you guys want to argue that way fine but many people who doesn't understand how reason works disgrees sadly

Tell me how damaging many small worlds = being capable of destroying the Silver Sea.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

 

[Dereck03]

I know that, and I agree with all of that. However, nothing of what you posted says or proves that a Layer 2 World = All Layer 1 Worlds. That doesn't change the fact that a Layer 2 World is still superior to a Layer 1 World however.

When have I ever debated about Layer 2 world = All layer 1 worlds? I can make some arguments, though. Let's see

The worlds are accepted as 5-D base.

If Anos were to use a spell capable of destroying a small world in layer 1, it would not be able to destroy even a ship in layer 2, meaning that a spell that is capable of destroying an infinite 5-D structure in layer 1 is not capable of doing anything against a single 3-D object in layer 2, Anos can have the power to destroy all 5-D worlds in layer 1 because he only needs the same amount of AP but a higher range to cover the amount, but these are incomparable to a 3-D object in layer 2, so the AP needed would be vastly higher than necessary an infinite more amount of power.

Could you say that could be an explanation? Although it is only a rough draft.

But do you agree with what I posted? I said Venuzdonoa can destroy the SS lol

 

[Dereck03]

Tell me how damaging many small worlds = being capable of destroying the Silver Sea.

To affect all the worlds of a deep layer means to affect the deep order, the deeper the order then the more impact it will have on the sea, hence the scan I provided where it shows that all the order is connected to the silver sea. That is why it is listed as a threat.

 

[MaxLevel_King]

That isn't "damaging" or "destroying" or "removing" or "erasing" the ocean. It's just moving it around. How do you think this example correlates to the MGnF Vortex being capable of destroying the Silver Sea?

 

[MaxLevel_King]

When have I ever debated about Layer 2 world = All layer 1 worlds? I can make some arguments, though. Let's see

The worlds are accepted as 5-D base.

If Anos were to use a spell capable of destroying a small world in layer 1, it would not be able to destroy even a ship in layer 2, meaning that a spell that is capable of destroying an infinite 5-D structure in layer 1 is not capable of doing anything against a single 3-D object in layer 2, Anos can have the power to destroy all 5-D worlds in layer 1 because he only needs the same amount of AP but a higher range to cover the amount, but these are incomparable to a 3-D object in layer 2, so the AP needed would be vastly higher than necessary an infinite more amount of power.

Could you say that could be an explanation? Although it is only a rough draft.

But do you agree with what I posted? I said Venuzdonoa can destroy the SS lol

The ship example was a Ship from a Deep World being compared to a Shallow World. How do you take that to mean that a Layer 2 ship is more durable than a Layer 1 World?

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Low 1-C: Low Complex Multiverse level

Characters or objects that can affect, create and/or destroy the entirety of spaces whose size corresponds to one to two higher levels of infinity greater than a standard universal model (Low 2-C structures, in plain English.) In terms of "dimensional" scale, this can be equated to 5 and 6-dimensional real coordinate spaces (R ^ 5 to R ^ 6)

I guess someone should learn how to scale before trying to downgrade a verse