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Maou Gakuin Discussion Thread

I thought it was still the case, from the accepted; like only Anos and a few characters have CM Type 1?
 
yeah,also Anos's resistance to CM type 1 will be nuked becasue the justification is out of context,maybe all ppl here are aware of it but they want to keep the wank,I mean,Aberneyu can destroy source but since when source is type 1 concept
 
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I think yeah, it can destroy source (type 2 concept), but the attack itself uses the order of destruction which is type 1 as well so it's ok
 
If someone manipulates the concept of disaster (type 1 in this case) to create a small storm but character A survives it,does that count as conceptual resistance?
 
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The point here is that Sargeldonave is treated as a conceptual attack, not a simple attack, so no
 
Delta333 said:
It manipulates type 1 concept to destroy type 2 concept,is it easier to understand now?
Click to expand...
Yeah, it manipulate Type 1 so it's fine and doesn't matter if it's only for destroy type 2 cuz attack itself is type 1
Delta333 said:
I thought it's accepted for HFG only,but if order of destruction is also accepted then I will downgrade it
Click to expand...
Go ahead, HFG, Creation & Destruction were accepted as type 1.... I just hear pure blah, blah, blah and nothing I see.
 
Dereck03 said:
Yeah, it manipulate Type 1 so it's fine and doesn't matter if it's only for destroy type 2 cuz attack itself is type 1
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It's matter because if anyone use CM type 1 to destroy his concept he will fail to resist it because the attack can only destroy type 2 (or maybe even 3 in this case)
Dereck03 said:
Go ahead, HFG, Creation & Destruction were accepted as type 1.... I just hear blah, blah, blah and nothing I see.
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Yeah sure I will downgrade it; I don't care if it's accepted or not but order of destruction doesn't transcend reality,if you have a reason then please drop it here
 
Delta333 said:
Yeah sure I will downgrade it; I don't care if it's accepted or not but order of destruction doesn't transcend reality
Click to expand...
1. Independent Universal Concept: Such concepts are completely independent from the reality they govern. These concepts shape all of reality and whatever level that reality exists in, and everything in reality "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the form of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of reality, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.

Where does it say here that they need to transcend reality?

Excluding the Order of Order (since this is more obvious), both the order of creation and destruction qualify under the requirements of the new Conceptual Manipulation page.

They were accepted because they existed before the reality they governed, and also at the same time the slime and some other verses got Cm 1 for the same reason so you would need to downgrade those as well. but good luck trying anyway.
Delta333 said:
It's matter because if anyone use CM type 1 to destroy his concept he will fail to resist it because the attack can only destroy type 2 (or maybe even 3 in this case)
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Anos resisted an attack that uses Cm 1 and can also destroy sources (Type 2) , so it's fine.
 
Dereck03 said:
1. Independent Universal Concept: Such concepts are completely independent from the reality they govern. These concepts shape all of reality and whatever level that reality exists in, and everything in reality "participates" in these concepts. For example, a circular object is circular because it is "participating" in the form of "circle-ness". In this way, the alteration of these concepts will change every object of the concept across all of reality, while the opposite wouldn't affect the concept.

Where does it say here that they need to transcend reality?

They were accepted because they existed before the reality they governed, and also at the same time the slime and some other verses got Cm 1 for the same reason so you would need to downgrade those as well. but good luck trying anyway.
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Drop the scan for order of destruction predating reality
Dereck03 said:
Anos resisted an attack that uses Cm 1 and can also destroy sources (Type 2) , so it's fine.
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which means he can only resist any attack that destroyes type 2,not type 1,also why source is type 2 instead of type 3?
 
Delta333 said:
Drop the scan for order of destruction predating reality
Click to expand...
Why do I have to do it? Go read the upgrade thread, also any order that scales the order of creation was accepted, also the order of destruction, since the 2 are exactly the same but at the same time are opposites and created both creation and destruction.
Delta333 said:
which means he can only resist any attack that destroyes type 2,not type 1
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How wrong you are, Sargeldonave uses order of destruction that is type 1, already at first stay there are no contradictions, and can also destroy sources, type 2 concepts, hahaha this is like saying that Venuzdonoa that can destroy the order that is Type 1 and can also destroy Source (Type 2), then it would be only Type 2 regardless of the attack itself exerts Type 1 Conceptual Destrucion
Delta333 said:
also why source is type 2 instead of type 3?
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Idk, Source is still Type 2 and Aberneyu Type 1, since you haven't downgraded anything, right? The source being Type 2 instead of Type 3 may make some sense, I'm neutral, but there is nothing anti-feat about Aberneyu being type 1.... And that's it for now, I have to go to sleep.
 
Dereck03 said:
Why do I have to do it? Go read the upgrade thread, also any order that scales the order of creation was accepted, also the order of destruction, since the 2 are exactly the same but at the same time are opposites and created both creation and destruction.
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And the reason for order of creation being type 1 is?If you don't have scan for predating reality then you can just say "no I don't have it",don't waste my time
Dereck03 said:
How wrong you are, Sargeldonave uses order of destruction that is type 1, already at first stay there are no contradictions, and can also destroy sources, type 2 concepts, hahaha this is like saying that Venuzdonoa that can destroy the order that is Type 1 and can also destroy Source (Type 2), then it would be only Type 2 regardless of the attack itself exerts Type 1 Conceptual Destrucion
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Don't make me laugh,Venuzdonoa can destroy type 1 but Order of Destruction doesn't use conceptual destruction type 1 to destroy Anos's source,it's totally false equivalence
Dereck03 said:
Idk, Source is still Type 2 and Aberneyu Type 1, since you haven't downgraded anything, right? The source being Type 2 instead of Type 3 may make some sense, I'm neutral, but there is nothing anti-feat about Aberneyu being type 1.... And that's it for now, I have to go to sleep.
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I haven't downgrade it but I will,no need to hurry
 
The source was a type 3 concept pre-concept revision, and is now a type 2 concept post-concept revision. There's nothing to downgrade.

Also, go read the actual thread where certain orders were accepted as type 1 concepts. We don't have to waste our time providing you with scans if you cannot even make an effort to read the related thread.

The Sun of Destruction utilises the Order of Destruction, which was accepted as type 1, and is also comparable to Venuzdonoa regarding concept manip, tho not regarding AP.
Anos can resist the Sun of Destruction AND Venuzdonoa.
Furthermore, Anos was capable of staying alive and unbothered even after his source was damaged by Evansmana. Currently it's only listed as resistance to pain manip, but it also qualifies as resistance to concept manip.
At the very least, Anos should have resistance to concept manip type 2.
 
imZer0Null said:
The source was a type 3 concept pre-concept revision, and is now a type 2 concept post-concept revision. There's nothing to downgrade.
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That's not a reason bruh if it's type 3 pre-concept revision then that only means it's wrong from the beginning
imZer0Null said:
Also, go read the actual thread where certain orders were accepted as type 1 concepts. We don't have to waste our time providing you with scans if you cannot even make an effort to read the related thread.
Click to expand...
Again,I don't care if it's accepted or not,wrong things being accepted is not something new at all,that thread is long and I'm lazy to read everything so a short summary would be appreciated,but if you can't do simple thing like that then fine...(My guess is creating the world via order of creation so predating it,if it's true then I have some counter arguments),yeah part of my fault when I have unfollowed virtually any CRT that I have replied
imZer0Null said:
The Sun of Destruction utilises the Order of Destruction, which was accepted as type 1, and is also comparable to Venuzdonoa regarding concept manip, tho not regarding AP.
Anos can resist the Sun of Destruction AND Venuzdonoa.
Furthermore, Anos was capable of staying alive and unbothered even after his source was damaged by Evansmana. Currently it's only listed as resistance to pain manip, but it also qualifies as resistance to concept manip.
At the very least, Anos should have resistance to concept manip type 2.
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His resistance is type 2 only if source is accepted as type 2,but I don't see any reason for that,hell destroying a source can't even affect reality so why is it not type 3 instead?
 
Delta333 said:
That's not a reason bruh if it's type 3 pre-concept revision then that only means it's wrong from the beginning
Click to expand...
So you don't have actual reasons for why the source, the fundamental concept of existence in all living things, that exists across the present, past, and future, that erases the person from existence when destroyed, isn't a type 2 concept?
Okay then. I guess your argument is completely irrelevant.

Delta333 said:
Again,I don't care if it's accepted or not,wrong things being accepted is not something new at all,that thread is long and I'm lazy to read everything so a short summary would be appreciated,but if you can't do simple thing like that then fine...(My guess is creating the world via order of creation so predating it,if it's true then I have some counter arguments),yeah part of my fault when I have unfollowed virtually any CRT that I have replied
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That's actually kinda pathetic, but okay.
To qualify as a type 1 concept, the concept must predate the reality (thing) it governs.
The reality (thing) that all order governs is the world. The Order of Creation of the Militia World created the Militia World (reality/thing it governs) from a white void iirc.
I also think I added the scan in the cosmology blog under the "Order" section, but gods and order MUST exist before the world, because the world cannot exist without gods and order.
 
imZer0Null said:
So you don't have actual reasons for why the source, the fundamental concept of existence in all living things, that exists across the present, past, and future, and erases the person from existence when destroyed, isn't a type 2 concept?
Okay then. I guess your argument is completely irrelevant.
Click to expand...
I have a reason tho,I said source doesn't govern reality,and all livings in the verse,which include every single normal creature,having concept type 2 while no one has type 3 is already weird
imZer0Null said:
That's actually kinda pathetic, but okay.
To qualify as a type 1 concept, the concept must predate the reality (thing) it governs.
The reality (thing) that all order governs is the world. The Order of Creation of the Militia World created the Militia World (reality/thing it governs) from a white void iirc.
I also think I added the scan in the cosmology blog under the "Order" section, but gods and order MUST exist before the world, because the world cannot exist without gods and order.
Click to expand...
I just want a short summary,why you can jump into a conclusion that it's pathetic I'm pretty sure no one in this world want to read a wall of text at all,except *********

I mean if you're dead serious about all gods being type 1 for real (not sure if it's already accepted or not) then one day in the future I will definitely downgrade it because...it's far worse than I thought
 
Delta333 said:
I have a reason tho,I said source doesn't govern reality,and all livings in the verse,which include every single normal creature,having concept type 2 while no one has type 3 is already weird
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You didn't provide any reasons again...
And you're also misunderstanding the explanations provide on the concept manip page. The reality a concept governs is the thing it governs, iirc.
For example, the concept of circle "governs all reality". In other words, this concept governs all circles (things it governs).

3. Lesser Realist Concept: Such concepts are abstract, but do not govern reality. Instead, these concepts are only related (in variable manner) to mental faculties such as cognition and the senses. From this definition, they can be of almost any model so long as they are distinct mental objects relevant to human thought and comprehension. However, these concepts are still truly abstract, and manipulating the abstract concept itself is still conceptual manipulation. Similarly to Type 2, this type of conceptual manipulation can only be obtained if the abstract concept itself is changed directly, and not by indirect methods. For example, affecting the mind could also affect the concepts responsible for its function (though this is not universal), however this would not qualify as the concepts need to be affected directly.
Click to expand...

You honestly think the source qualifies as a type 3 concept instead of a type 2 concept?
I don't even have to debate this further. There's no way the source is a type 3 concept.

Delta333 said:
I mean if you're dead serious about all gods being type 1 for real (not sure if it's already accepted or not) then one day in the future I will definitely downgrade it because...it's far worse than I thought
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No. Not all order qualifies as type 1 concepts. The Order of Creation and order comparable to it qualifies as type 1 since the Order of Creation has solid evidence of predating the world, and order must exist before the world in any case.

Honestly, what you currently think is actually irrelevant, since you provide no logical reasons for why certain order doesn't qualify as type 1 concepts, and also because you haven't even read the thread where it was accepted as type 1 concepts.
 
imZer0Null said:
And you're also misunderstanding the explanations provide on the concept manip page. The reality a concept governs is the thing it governs, iirc.
For example, the concept of circle "governs all reality". In other words, this concept governs all circles (things it governs).
Click to expand...
No I don't misunderstand anything,reality is simply reality,not the things at all,seriously it directly said "These concepts shape everything" on the page so I don't know what are you talking about.Hell if all living beings in MG have concept type 2 then even a random normal pig in verse will resist CM type 3,kinda dumb tbh
imZer0Null said:
You honestly think the source qualifies as a type 3 concept instead of a type 2 concept?
I don't even have to debate this further. There's no way the source is a type 3 concept.
Click to expand...
I don't care if you won't debate further or not,feel free to do that if you want
imZer0Null said:
No. Not all order qualifies as type 1 concepts. The Order of Creation and order comparable to it qualifies as type 1 since the Order of Creation has solid evidence of predating the world, and order must exist before the world in any case.

Honestly, what you currently think is actually irrelevant, since you provide no logical reasons for why certain order doesn't qualify as type 1 concepts, and also because you haven't even read the thread where it was accepted as type 1 concepts.
Click to expand...
Yeah and I haven't read everything in that thread but from what I see on OP it's just about HFG (that's why I agree with that thread),not a single scan about Militia at all,but your previous reason even makes me think more about it's wrong

I will downgrade it soon so don't worry about that
 
I do not understand. I conclude that what you are trying to convey is that a god is immune to source destroying magic<bebesd>
 
The root that was torn into four pieces became eight, then sixteen, and the next moment it was split into thirty-two. It is a divine source that will never be destroyed, but because of this, the secret depths of the Zanshin Sword will split the source without limit.
 
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