Manaka Sajyou vs Void Shiki

[Wankbreaker]

Who wins?

Starting Range: 20m

Speed Equalized (though I’m not sure they need it.)

Princess of the Root (Manaka);

Void Shiki:

Incon:

 

[LamentSatanael]

Beast Manaka? If no, Void takes this.

 

[Wankbreaker]

Beast Manaka? If no, Void takes this.

How does void handle her AOG magecraft and magecraft related haxes?

 

[LamentSatanael]

How does void handle her AOG magecraft and magecraft related haxes?

By deploying her own "AOG magecraft and magecraft related haxes"; considering both of them have similar connection to the root. Manaka is held back by her circuits normally whereas "Ryougi Shiki" shouldn't have such restrictions considering we haven't been told nor know of such.

Hence why I asked if "Beast Manaka" was the key.

 

[Wankbreaker]

By deploying her own "AOG magecraft and magecraft related haxes"; considering both of them have similar connection to the root. Manaka is held back by her circuits normally whereas "Ryougi Shiki" shouldn't have such restrictions considering we haven't been told nor know of such.

Based on the profiles (which you have to use on VS matches on this site), Ryougi lacks such things.

And she shouldn’t, considering she doesn’t have magic circuits (she DOES however seem to possess mana)

also no, the restriction of mana is always needed to overpower the counterforce, that’s why the HGW is even a thing. You both need to carve a pathway to the root, and possess enough mana to deal with the CF’s defenses. Goetia needed a similar collection of mana to deal with the QTL.

Hence why I asked if "Beast Manaka" was the key.

It’s normal manaka

 

[LamentSatanael]

Based on the profiles (which you have to use on VS matches on this site), Ryougi lacks such things.

Fair 'nuff

And she shouldn’t, considering she doesn’t have magic circuits (she DOES however seem to possess mana)

She does have magic circuits in the form of her eyes, but specifically eyes only in this case going by rules then. Not possessing Magic circuits still isn't that much of a deal since you could make do with alternatives albeit at a heavier cost. Also, yes you do need sufficient firepower to overcome the CF.

 

[Wankbreaker]

She does have magic circuits in the form of her eyes, but specifically eyes only in this case going by rules then. Not possessing Magic circuits still isn't that much of a deal since you could make do with alternatives albeit at a heavier cost. Also, yes you do need sufficient firepower to overcome the CF.

A cost that Ryougi cannot pay. She doesn’t seem to have a significant level of mana

 

[KleymStart]

Let’s see, I'm tired of seeing Void Shiki being portrayed as a character that anyone from the Nasuverse can defeat, which is a gross mistake. This was discussed for years and every counterargument was refuted. Saying that Void Shiki is not the Root is a gigantic ridiculousness considering that Type-Moon itself portrays her as the representative of the Root in several stories.

What, Nasu said X thing? We all know Nasu says one thing and then comes out with another. I'll even give a simple example:

Nasu: "Void Shiki can only fight defensively against Servants," then we see an ordinary human Shiki killing 99 Servants in Fate Extra...

Does that mean human Shiki >>>>> Void Shiki? NO, that's a tremendous inconsistency and ridiculousness, to be honest. Having said all this, I will wait for several Nasuverse threads to end so that I can make a CRT to reinstate Void Shiki's 1-A scale and leave everything as it was before.

Since quite a few important people who argued for the Nasuverse have retired, it now seems that some are trying to take advantage to debunk the verse without precedents.

 

[Robo432343]

Void Shiki win FRA

 

[Wankbreaker]

Let’s see, I'm tired of seeing Void Shiki being portrayed as a character that anyone from the Nasuverse can defeat, which is a gross mistake. This was discussed for years and every counterargument was refuted. Saying that Void Shiki is not the Root is a gigantic ridiculousness considering that Type-Moon itself portrays her as the representative of the Root in several stories.

Ah yes.

──世界そのものにさえ等しい、万物を生む根源がかたちを成した少女。沙条愛歌。
"The girl who embodies the very Root of all creation, equal to the world itself. Sajyou Manaka."

真理と化した女の子であり、すべてを成せる女の子でした。 命を、と望めば命を発生させられる。 ささや まんえん 死を、と囁けば死を蔓延させられる。 つな 世界は彼女と繫がっていて、彼女は世界と繫がっていたのかもしれません。 彼女はおよそ全能でした。 不可能などひとつもない。すべてを操って、成し遂げ、崩し去ることができる。そんな機能をもって ゆえしまった故に何事にも楽しみがなくなってしまった彼女は、自分の全能にひとつだけルールを作りまし た。 それは「自分の未来は見ないようにする」というものです。 世界そのものにも等しい彼女は、自分自身に制限を掛けたのです。 かせ ルール。制限。枷。だって、それぐらいしないと全能はとても退屈で。ヒトのままでいる意味がまるで なくなって、生命活動なんて続けていられない。きっと死んでしまう。 結果的に、彼女の行動は正解だったのでしょう。まぶた 少なくとも彼女は毎朝眠りから目覚めて、瞼を開けて、呼吸をして、窓越しに空を見上げたり、さえず 小鳥の囀りへ耳を傾けたり、父へ透き通った視線を向けたりできました。父の言うがままに魔術を操るあれこれもやってのけました。生まれたばかりの妹に対しては、父や母のように涙を流したりはし ないまでも、他の人間たちがするように、小さな妹の頰を指でつついて、その柔らかさを確かめたりで きました。

She was a girl who became truth itself, a girl who could accomplish everything. If she wished for life, she could create it. If she whispered death, she could spread it. The world might have been connected to her, and she to the world. She was virtually omnipotent. There was not a single thing that was impossible. She could manipulate, achieve, and dismantle everything. Because she had such abilities, she lost enjoyment in everything and decided to create one rule about her omnipotence. That was "to not see her own future."She, who was almost equal to the world itself, imposed limitations on herself. A rule. A restriction. A shackle. Because without doing that much, omnipotence was very boring. Staying human became meaningless, and continuing life activities wouldn't be possible. She would surely perish. In the end, her action was probably the right decision.At the very least, every morning she awakened from sleep, opened her eyes, breathed, and looked up at the sky through the window. She could listen to the chirping of small birds and gaze transparently at her father. As her father instructed, she performed various acts of magic. Although she did not shed tears like her father or mother for her newborn sister, she could poke her little sister's cheeks with her fingers, like other humans do, to feel their softness.

Get her past the counterforce.

What, Nasu said X thing? We all know Nasu says one thing and then comes out with another. I'll even give a simple example:

You know the take you have is wrong if you have to deny the writer himself.

Nasu: "Void Shiki can only fight defensively against Servants," then we see an ordinary human Shiki killing 99 Servants in Fate Extra...

The Fate Extra version is implied to be a Moon Cell NPC by Tamamo and Archer, and connected to the far side of the moon cell. (Which means this doesn’t scale, btw.)

If we look at KNK, normal shiki actually gets blitzed by someone who’s best speed feat is dodging bullets. Even Void in the Mahoyo collab is “Sword Saint level” which can “hold out against a servant”

Does that mean human Shiki >>>>> Void Shiki? NO, that's a tremendous inconsistency and ridiculousness, to be honest. Having said all this, I will wait for several Nasuverse threads to end so that I can make a CRT to reinstate Void Shiki's 1-A scale and leave everything as it was before.

They’re both human btw.

Since quite a few important people who argued for the Nasuverse have retired, it now seems that some are trying to take advantage to debunk the verse without precedents.

Theoreticaltoxic is debating me in my server currently (I don’t think you’ll like what happens though, lmao.)

Before another 1000 page discussion happens, if you want to discuss anything regarding void, join here.

Join the Type Moon Discord Server!

Check out the Type Moon community on Discord - hang out with 37 other members and enjoy free voice and text chat.

discord.gg

 

[KleymStart]

You know the take you have is wrong if you have to deny the writer himself.

An author that, although I love, unfortunately contradicts himself whenever he can... no wonder they removed the WoG for the Nasuverse...

The Fate Extra version is implied to be a Moon Cell NPC by Tamamo and Archer, and connected to the far side of the moon cell. (Which means this doesn’t scale, btw.)

If we look at KNK, normal shiki actually gets blitzed by someone who’s best speed feat is dodging bullets. Even Void in the Mahoyo collab is “Sword Saint level” which can “hold out against a servant”



They’re both human btw.

Theoreticaltoxic is debating me in my server currently (I don’t think you’ll like what happens though, lmao.)

Before another 1000 page discussion happens, if you want to discuss anything regarding void, join here.

Join the Type Moon Discord Server!

Check out the Type Moon community on Discord - hang out with 37 other members and enjoy free voice and text chat.

discord.gg

Anyway, the rest of your response was pretty easy to address, even if I remember correctly, Paul Frank (Translator) refuted everything in his day (that's why I say this cycle will never end), but I'll leave it at that. It seems that Theoreticaltoxic is already debating this.

As for the Discord link, perfect, I'll drop by there in my free time. But first, I want to ask you a sincere question, how do you scale the Nasuverse according to your thoughts?

PS: I want to apologize if something I say is unclear, I don't have the best level of English, please be patient with me in that regard.

 

[Grimm's_Fortitude]

You know the take you have is wrong if you have to deny the writer himself.

Nasu contradicts himself every other time he opens his mouth... This is the guy whose own employees had to stop him from writing more stories as it would utterly annihilate any semblance of cohesion across the various storylines of the Nasuverse. The same guy who can't even answer basic questions about some of "his" most popular stories because he never actually wrote them, and whose word about his own franchise is so utterly unreliable that pretty much everything he says should be considered little more than a joke...

 

[Wankbreaker]

Nasu contradicts himself every other time he opens his mouth... This is the guy whose own employees had to stop him from writing more stories as it would utterly annihilate any semblance of cohesion across the various storylines of the Nasuverse. The same guy who can't even answer basic questions about some of "his" most popular stories because he never actually wrote them, and whose word about his own franchise is so utterly unreliable that pretty much everything he says should be considered little more than a joke...

welcome back hyperzero

(care to back this claim up?)

 

[Nightshade]

Ah yes.



Get her past the counterforce.

You know the take you have is wrong if you have to deny the writer himself.

The Fate Extra version is implied to be a Moon Cell NPC by Tamamo and Archer, and connected to the far side of the moon cell. (Which means this doesn’t scale, btw.)

If we look at KNK, normal shiki actually gets blitzed by someone who’s best speed feat is dodging bullets. Even Void in the Mahoyo collab is “Sword Saint level” which can “hold out against a servant”



They’re both human btw.

Theoreticaltoxic is debating me in my server currently (I don’t think you’ll like what happens though, lmao.)

I'm actually curious on how the debate went, please do tell us the outcome.

Before another 1000 page discussion happens, if you want to discuss anything regarding void, join here.

Join the Type Moon Discord Server!

Check out the Type Moon community on Discord - hang out with 37 other members and enjoy free voice and text chat.

discord.gg

 

[Wankbreaker]

I'm actually curious on how the debate went, please do tell us the outcome.

The debate STILL hasn’t ended, we’re on like round 4/5

 

[Nightshade]

The debate STILL hasn’t ended, we’re on like round 4/5

What are the results of the concluded rounds so far, and also the topics you've argued with him

 

[Wankbreaker]

What are the results of the concluded rounds so far, and also the topics you've argued with him

they’re all inconclusive, that’s why it didn’t end the first time

But pretty much the FGO and manaka stuff, for the most part

 

[Nightshade]

they’re all inconclusive, that’s why it didn’t end the first time

But pretty much the FGO and manaka stuff, for the most part

Don't know about the fgo stuffs, what are they
But how long have you guys been going at it?