azontr
He/Him- 40,519
- 50,160
That is very unspecific lmfao
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Maki Zen'in VS Mira Yoo • (10-10-1)
- Thread starter Phoenks
- Start date
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That's the point lol
Jokes aside, after looking at both profiles and seeing all the arguments,
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You clearly ignored that ^ and the fact that I never stated Maki is comparable to Mira.
Read my arguments entirely and properly before responding in bits and pieces.
Here is a TLDR:
Toji = Maki > Upper Echleon fighters (Naoya, Jinichi, Ogi, etc) > early series Maki > Kurukuru unit of highly trained martial artists.
This proves Maki is a extremely competent fighter in general. Now she can use her supernatural and superhuman abilities to compensate for the remaining gap in skill to where she’s able to land 1-2 strikes on Mira to win.
Such as?
Probably the fact that Mira won’t assume she’s crazy enough to tank a hit.
And this point is supposed to be taken together with all the other points to make up my full premise on why Mira is not dodging every single attack. So try not to nitpick.
What you think is not an argument. But since we are saying what we think I’ll play the game too
.I think Mira is not skilled enough to outmaneuver an competent fighter (she has 0 knowledge on who is more agile and can change direction in the air all while seeing through her every moves with enhanced senses and predicting the next. I think “she’s not a skill god but she’s skilled enough to dodge every move” is not enough to counter every single one of Maki’s moves without getting tired in the long run. I think the fact that skill being Mira’s best option here isn’t a good look on her too.
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This skill scaling doesn't do any favours for Maki, she was already faster and stronger than every member of the Kukuru unit and you need to actually show feats as to what the skill of the people she scales above actually entails, even fighters with thousands of years of experience in a story don't necessarily outskill just based on that if the person they're up against was way more ridiculous skill feats.
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- Thread starter
- #85
For Maki to be able to land hits on Mira she would need to be comparable. Otherwise Mira would more than likely just dodge everything due her experience against far more skilled opponents.
I read your argument and responded to the points you made in order.
You can't just make a greater than symbol skill chain and say that "proves" she's comparable enough to land hits on Mira lol.
That's not an argument at all.
Unless you want to say Azontr could just make a massive greater than chain for Mira and say "this proves Mira dogwalks."
I'm sure he'd be willing to do that.
Ilpyo Park
Ilpyo Park (박일표) is the Jeonranamdo Province Champion of the G.O.H Tournament. He is considered as one of the top 3 fighters in the country and is famously known as Sakyamuni Ilpyo Park. 17 years after RagnarÖk, he becomes one of The Six and devoted himself to teaching Ssam-Su Taekkyeon. He is...
vsbattles.fandom.com
That wasn't part of the argument I was just stating that in my opinion your "arguments" for Maki are not a good look for her. You still haven't managed to prove any of your claims.What you think is not an argument. But since we are saying what we think I’ll play the game too
Her being a skilled fighter doesn't automatically mean she'd be able to land attacks on Mira when people more skilled than Maki can't land hits on Mira on her own verse.
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Aside from the fact I meant she is above those who she literally trained with (Kurukuru unit) and the fact that she got good enough to go toe to toe with Ogi to the point of breaking his sword. I was wrong about “more than half” statement. Most of it was about the massacre.
The overall point of typing that was to address the “she’s not skilled” claim.
1.
Anyways, it seems like you are gonna make this conversation all about skill and completely miss the point of the actual argument of why Maki wins. So this is the last I’ll say on Maki’s skill because the point was saying Maki isn’t skilled is completely wrong lol.
?
Anything outside of what Mira’s own words says needs proof.
Her healing isn’t passive buddy. She was focused on her objective and didn’t bother to heal.
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Explain to me how reading muscle movements through body contact is better than air molecules telling Maki what her opponents does next?Ilpyo Park
Ilpyo Park (박일표) is the Jeonranamdo Province Champion of the G.O.H Tournament. He is considered as one of the top 3 fighters in the country and is famously known as Sakyamuni Ilpyo Park. 17 years after RagnarÖk, he becomes one of The Six and devoted himself to teaching Ssam-Su Taekkyeon. He is...
azontr
He/Him- 40,519
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Both the Kurukuru Unit and Ogi are featless outside of "their skilled".
Nobody thinks Maki is a bad fighter in general. The only argument being made here is that she and Mira are simply not comparable.
???? What is this even meant to prove.
I gave you proof. Your response to the proof was the literal equivalent of "nuh uh". Idk what more proof you want beyond that.
Okay so
1. It's not healing. It's regen and it's listed as regeneration on her profile, which is a passive ability.
2. There was an very sizeable time different between Maki killing Ogi, the alarm sounding that alerted the rest of the clan of Ogi's death, and Maki actually being confronted by the rest of the clan. Even if you insinuate that it is NOT a passive ability Maki had more than enough time to heal her injuries between fights.
That's not the full explanation. Ilpyo's profile is bad, so it doesn't actually elaborate on the details of his prediction beyond Gaksu, but the breakdown is that its better than shit that basically let's you look at them and know everything about them with 0 prior knowledge or research with pure analysis.
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I'm pretty sure it's not literally air molecules telling her how the opponent would move but rather she can know how they'll move by reading the changes in the air flow
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If “nuh uh” means Mira pointing out a crucial fact you’re missing then yes that’s my argument.
For the last time, prove Mira can cause internal damage without an object within her opponent.
If the other thing is about Llypo recognizing Mori’s abilities off of memory then that’s not even precog that’s just experience.
If that’s not what you meant, then eplain to us what makes his predictions better than Maki’s
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Thanks for the info Captain obvious. It’s still more impressive than a prediction of muscle movements that requires body contact.
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Calm down Arnold, I'm not voting just correcting what I felt was being blown out of proportion
azontr
He/Him- 40,519
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your trying to act like you know more about the Marionette technique than Mira herself does despite the fact she uses it without the use of an embedded blade.
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Look I’m just a bit frustrated rn with all the Maki skill this maki skill that when the whole point was debunk the “Maki isn’t skilled” claim now they’re taking my arguments as me comparing it to Mira. When I literally admitted Maki isn’t nearly as skilled (but can use her supernatural advantage against it).
The air molecules telling Maki what the next moves are should’ve been easily taken as a metaphor for Maki reading moves based off changes in density and air flow. It’s not like air molecules grew mouths to talk to Maki so how could that have been possibly taken out of proportions.
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- Thread starter
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If you don't think that Maki is comparable to Mira then you can't make the argument that "Maki hits her," since unless she's comparable, Mira will dodge all of her attacks and counter them with sword slashes that make a 5x physical AP difference negligible. That's what happens to people that aren't comparable to Mira.
Hope this helps!
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So why does she go out of her way to attack the sword and claim she did it to attack her insides? Isn’t that because the sword made it inside her highly durable body unlike those random fodder? Wouldn’t she have to do the same thing before it works on Maki’s highly durable body?
I’m literally just going off of Mira’s own words.
Okay.
azontr
He/Him- 40,519
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The sword wasn't even inside her body. It was within the big ass shoulder pad things. There's not even a wound on her shoulder when her clothes explode.
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You’re also forgetting. Maki has far higher mobility than anyone Mira has faced up to this point in this match key. She could just as easily evade a shitload of attacks from Mira. Then you have endurance and durability advantage that just lets Maki outlast Mira.
We haven’t even gotten to the part where you claimed GoH characters at this point in the series have better precog than Maki’s yet. Other than Ilypo, whose prediction is based on continuous bodily contact and preexisting knowledge on martial arts afaik, has she fought anyone else with a decent precog and won without outstating?
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Miras skill is more convincing. Voting her FRA.
EL_xWatcher1234x
He/Him- 2,565
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She can also smell colors.
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mf that ain't skill that's synaesthesia
EL_xWatcher1234x
He/Him- 2,565
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Mate that was a joke.
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i don’t wanna see the word skill anymore. it’s rotting our minds.
Still waiting on what Mira did against precog and if said precog was truly better than Maki’s.
Still waiting on what Mira did against precog and if said precog was truly better than Maki’s.
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My brother in Christ that mf shoulder was bleeding and Mirai literally says shoulder not shoulder pad.
When will this shit end.
azontr
He/Him- 40,519
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"When will this shit end" when will you read, Arnold?
Her shoulders are explicitly much smaller than the pads, and the sword was barely embedded a few inches into the pads. It'd be physically impossible for the blade to strike flesh with how little it actually dug into the pad.
Mira makes her "bleed" prior yet immediately afterwards it's stated that there was no damage. The "bleeding" shit isn't actual bleeding, Yongje is just a weirdo with inconsistent art.
Stop taking stuff at face value.
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How the hell can you make an argument about be “yonje has inconsistent Art” the proceed to be so confident with your “shoulder is smaller than shoulder pad” argument. Who do you think drew the shoulder smaller than the shoulder pad? The same guy who has also drawn blood dripping from the shoulders two times.
Is Yonje’s writing also inconsistent? Because as he draws blood dripping from the shoulders there are also multiple statements that explicitly claim the sword was stuck in his shoulder
So which is more believable? The same “Inconsistent Art” that shows blood dripping from his shoulders on two separate occasions, despite you claiming it’s physically impossible for the shoulder to be hit with the same inconsistent Art OR The actual plot that consistently mentions the sword being stuck in the shoulder.
I prefer both the actual plot that states the sword stuck in the actual shoulder and the Art that supports the plot with blood dripping from the shoulders.
Is Yonje’s writing also inconsistent? Because as he draws blood dripping from the shoulders there are also multiple statements that explicitly claim the sword was stuck in his shoulder
So which is more believable? The same “Inconsistent Art” that shows blood dripping from his shoulders on two separate occasions, despite you claiming it’s physically impossible for the shoulder to be hit with the same inconsistent Art OR The actual plot that consistently mentions the sword being stuck in the shoulder.
I prefer both the actual plot that states the sword stuck in the actual shoulder and the Art that supports the plot with blood dripping from the shoulders.
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Also I’m still waiting for evidence that Llypo’s predictions are better than Maki’s predictions.
Cuz afaik Llypo needs to constantly make physical contact with Mira to predict muscle movements and Llypo only predicted Mori because he knew everything Mori knows forcing Mori to create new moves. That is nowhere near the type of precog Maki has that lets her dodge attacks all while mid air without even looking at the attacks and simply going off of the changes in the air flow.
Failure to prove Llypo’s predictions > Maki’s precog means Mira isn’t bullshitting her way past Maki’s precog alone,
not to mention Maki not only has precog but far superior mobility to dodge attacks, and far superior durability, stamina and endurance than outlast Mira. Not to mention Mira has 0 knowledge on all of Maki’s advantages in this match that prompt make her want to avoid swords clashing at EVERY point in time. That’s obviously not possible.
Cuz afaik Llypo needs to constantly make physical contact with Mira to predict muscle movements and Llypo only predicted Mori because he knew everything Mori knows forcing Mori to create new moves. That is nowhere near the type of precog Maki has that lets her dodge attacks all while mid air without even looking at the attacks and simply going off of the changes in the air flow.
Failure to prove Llypo’s predictions > Maki’s precog means Mira isn’t bullshitting her way past Maki’s precog alone,
not to mention Maki not only has precog but far superior mobility to dodge attacks, and far superior durability, stamina and endurance than outlast Mira. Not to mention Mira has 0 knowledge on all of Maki’s advantages in this match that prompt make her want to avoid swords clashing at EVERY point in time. That’s obviously not possible.
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Aight.
noisyPitta
She/Her- 417
- 171
I'm gonna be giving this one to Maki, though it would be quite a close match.
I don't know much about GoH but from what I've seen in this thread so far, its clear that Mira is far more skilled as a fighter, and the majority of the battle is going to be Maki trying to get a good hit in. I see this going similarly to Maki vs Naoya, where she does a bit of trading blows as she takes time to assess her opponent and plan where to get in her one good hit. Unless there's some other wierd scaling going on that I'm missing, Maki's Multi-City Block durability should let her tank Mira's Small Building to City Block attacks for long enough. I have faith that Maki would be able to get in at least one good hit, and even if it doesn't immediately kill her opponent, any amount of damage from her katana would hinder Mira's movements to a degree that Maki should be able to come out on top. (Correct me if I'm wrong and Mira can somehow tank dura neg hits)
I don't know much about GoH but from what I've seen in this thread so far, its clear that Mira is far more skilled as a fighter, and the majority of the battle is going to be Maki trying to get a good hit in. I see this going similarly to Maki vs Naoya, where she does a bit of trading blows as she takes time to assess her opponent and plan where to get in her one good hit. Unless there's some other wierd scaling going on that I'm missing, Maki's Multi-City Block durability should let her tank Mira's Small Building to City Block attacks for long enough. I have faith that Maki would be able to get in at least one good hit, and even if it doesn't immediately kill her opponent, any amount of damage from her katana would hinder Mira's movements to a degree that Maki should be able to come out on top. (Correct me if I'm wrong and Mira can somehow tank dura neg hits)
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mira had an 8-A key but it was downgraded to 8-B (40.04 Tons), which is what's being used here
noisyPitta
She/Her- 417
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Then I stand by my statement. Maki's stats and hax should be enough to beat Mira's skill.
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Mira is definitely more skilled, but I doubt she's skilled enough to avoid being hit once which is all that Maki needs.
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- Thread starter
- #118
Are you voting?
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Yeah I'll post an analysis later
Serlock_Holmes
He/Him- 3,651
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Maki FRA
