Maki Zen'in VS Mira Yoo • (10-10-1)

[azontr]

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Y'know, I aint arguing

Ima just let my monkey side take over and say that youre wrong

 

[azontr]

Mods, you know what to do

 

[Sir_Ovens]

azontr you literally initiated by calling him an idiot. Argue the point, not the person.

 

[Nierre]

I still haven't seen a convincing argument for how Mira takes this. She's at a big disadvantage via dura and senses. I don't doubt Mira is more skilled than Maki, but nobody has made an argument yet on how she's going to somehow fool Maki's senses in a close quarters, speed equal match, and get a win.

I'm not voting for now, but I'd like to see more of an argument in Mira's favor, rather than just "she's more skilled", particularly how she can overcome the disadvantages she has in this matchup.

 

[Phoenks]

Y'know, I aint arguing

Ima just let my monkey side take over and say that youre wrong

Mira has fought people with analytical prediction/precognition far beyond what Maki is capable of, so that point is irrelevant.

Maki's enhanced senses mean jack-shit here.

An AP difference of ~5x barely matters when both of them are using piercing weaponry. They're both going to do massive damage to each other with sword strikes. The difference is Mira is simply way more skilled and has fought more skilled opponents than Maki before.

You're going to need to bring better arguments to the table.

Right now you just seem pretty salty and ignorant.

 

[Nierre]

Mira has fought people with analytical prediction/precognition far beyond what Maki is capable of, so that point is irrelevant.

ninjad.

Who was it that she fought that has these senses? Do they have profiles

 

[azontr]

azontr you literally initiated by calling him an idiot. Argue the point, not the person.

I did argue the point. My response to doing so was having my points dismissed as "wank" and my opposition blatantly coming out to say they will not be making an attempt to argue my points in turn.

I apologize for calling them an idiot (I'm tired) but I am arguing every point.

ninjad.

Who was it that she fought that has these senses? Do they have profiles

Dude named Seungcheol Baek, he has a profile but it's bad so his prediction isn't listed

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Mira has fought people with analytical prediction/precognition far beyond what Maki is capable of, so that point is irrelevant.

Maki's enhanced senses mean jack-shit here.

An AP difference of ~5x barely matters when both of them are using piercing weaponry. They're both going to do massive damage to each other with sword strikes. The difference is Mira is simply way more skilled and has fought more skilled opponents than Maki before.

You're going to need to bring better arguments to the table.

Right now you just seem pretty salty and ignorant.

I literally said that im not arguing, of course theres no real argument here.

Ik how to debate skill, I just dont want to

You dont even need to count my vote because I understand how FRA train is a bitch

 

[Maitreya12]

“You’re salty”

“You’re an idiot”

“I ain’t arguing, you’re wrong”

I despise all of you people so ******* much

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

That's Enhanced Senses. Being able to see molecules doesn't make the precog infallible.

Nah, it isn’t. The moment Mira makes even the slightest movement, she’ll disrupt the air, telling Maki exactly how she’ll move, what she’ll do, etc.

My vote firmly goes to Maki, one hit and it’s gg.

 

[azontr]

The moment Mira makes even the slightest movement, she’ll disrupt the air, telling Maki exactly how she’ll move, what she’ll do, etc.

Okay, cool, but still very basic analytical prediction and not anything compared to being able to figure out how an entire fight goes down with 0 prior knowledge and no outside indication.

Maki's precog is nothing special in The God of Highschool.

 

[SunDaGamer]

Nah, it isn’t. The moment Mira makes even the slightest movement, she’ll disrupt the air, telling Maki exactly how she’ll move, what she’ll do, etc.

My vote firmly goes to Maki, one hit and it’s gg.

Mira has fought people with analytical prediction/precognition far beyond what Maki is capable of, so that point is irrelevant.

My vote goes to Mira because she outskills from what I've read above

 

[azontr]

What you just showed it's more of a feat of intelligence than anything else

Whose gonna tell him intelligence ties into analytics?

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

I deleted the comment because I don't want to argue
But bro just saw the destruction and with that he realized what happened
Thats not precog
It's the opposite
Retrocognition

 

[azontr]

I deleted the comment because I don't want to argue
But bro just saw the destruction and with that he realized what happened
Thats not precog
It's the opposite
Retrocognition

If you don't want to argue then stop responding. You're going to be argued with if you respond to an argument with an argument.

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Well, you responded my deleted comment
But alright, unfollowing

 

[Phoenks]

Bump

 

[azontr]

You can cast my vote for Mira at this point.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Yessir a Maki match.

I’ll be arguing for her. But I’ll vote according to consensus (or not at all if the consensus sides with what I don’t agree with )

 

[Phoenks]

Yessir a Maki match.

I’ll be arguing for her. But I’ll vote according to consensus (or not at all if the consensus sides with what I don’t agree with )

Well, better give some arguments then cause right now Mira is kind of the consensus.

She's very more skilled.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

Maki has AP advantage while Mira has skill advantage. Can go either way from what I see.

For now put my vote on incon. Might change depending on future arguments by both sides.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Well, better give some arguments then cause right now Mira is kind of the consensus.

She's very more skilled.

That’s it?

Her skill better be damn near godlike because I actually think Maki is pretty skilled in her own right.

I’ll read her arguments rn.

 

[azontr]

The only thing Maki has that Mira hasn't dealt with in story at this point in time is Soul Liberation Blade, and Maki has basically no skill feats of her own, or only scales above people who also have no skill feats.

Mira is dancing around Maki, no questions.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Maki has basically no skill feats of her own, or only scales above people who also have no skill feats.

I had a feeling this was the case. I vehemently disagree that Maki isn’t skilled. I will read the Mira arguments first cuz my knowledge on GoH is limited to the point Mori first gains his Monke form. Then respond with how skilled Maki is.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Unfortunately however, the key of Mira Yoo being used here isn’t nearly as skilled as the keys right after this one. In fact this is like Mira Yoo’s least skilled key, before she’s done all her training. So while she put skills, she probably doesn’t to an incredibly significant degree since Maki is pretty skilled in her own right.

Exactly.

 

[azontr]

Dude, read a bit further down lol, he is very blatantly wrong as I demonstrated basically a post afterward. Mira is more skilled than Mori is in this key, just because she's not a skill God yet doesn't mean she's a slouch or something.

Also, something I didn't mention before, but Mira has spammable dura neg via Marionette which allows her to defeat people she can't even harm in just over a single second via internal damage. So if she realizes her normal sword strikes can't harm Maki (somehow) she'll just spam Marionette, which takes Maki several minutes at a time to heal and leaves her vulnerable.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

I’m not even going to into verbose detail about Maki’s skill.

She’s just one of the best fighters among highly trained fighters in the Zenin division. Being able to effectively combat many characters in the higher echelons of the Zenin clan. She is even able to go toe to toe and defeat the highest ranking member of the Zenin clan. That’s before she got fully realized with all those abilities and likened to Toji himself. That’s all I’ll say. All this is enough for Maki to fight competently and with all of her natural abilities she can land one or two blows at least.

---

• Unlike the forms of analytical predictions in GoH, the air molecules tell Maki where Mira is and what she’s going to do. With this, Maki will aim to destroy the sword mid swing, forcing Mira to use No sword style which is a wrong move due to her lack of knowledge on Maki’s Split Soul Katana.
• Maki is unpredictable enough to literally let Mira land a hit on her just to get a fatal attack in. Given her massive endurance and durability advantage it’s gonna be pretty easy for Maki.
• Maki has far higher maneuverability as she’s more agile, and can literally move mid air into another position in space.

Maki is already an exceptional fighter with advantages that are extremely beneficial to the average combatants. These advantages close the gap in skill between Mira and Maki. Even the very lack of knowledge Mira has on Maki’s abilities and weaponry is a very big disadvantage which will lessen the chance of Mira to always make the right decisions like those who claim she would all the time to somehow avoid every hit.

With all that said, Maki will surely land at least 1 or 2 hits on Mira sooner or later with Split Soul Katana. Mira is more skilled than Maki but the arguments for Mira’s skill has a lot of nuance to them. She requires Ikki’s level of skill to avoid every hit despite all the odds against her but she’s nowhere near that level, especially at this point in the series.

Put me down for Maki @Phoenks. The rest of my efforts in this thread will be put into looking at and addressing Mira’s skill

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Dude, read a bit further down lol, he is very blatantly wrong as I demonstrated basically a post afterward. Mira is more skilled than Mori is in this key, just because she's not a skill God yet doesn't mean she's a slouch or something.

Also, something I didn't mention before, but Mira has spammable dura neg via Marionette which allows her to defeat people she can't even harm in just over a single second via internal damage. So if she realizes her normal sword strikes can't harm Maki (somehow) she'll just spam Marionette, which takes Maki several minutes at a time to heal and leaves her vulnerable.

You do realize Mira is using the sword embedded in that character to her advantage to perform internal damage right?

 

[azontr]

I’m not even going to into verbose detail about Maki’s skill.

She’s just a one of the best fighters among highly trained fighters in the Zenin division. Being able to effectively combat many characters in the higher echelons of the Zenin clan. She is even able to go toe to toe and defeat the highest ranking member of the Zenin clan. That’s before she got fully realized with all those abilities and likened to Toji himself. That’s all I’ll say. All this is enough for Maki to fight competently and with all of her natural abilities she can land one or two blows at least.

---

• Unlike the forms of analytical predictions in GoH, the air molecules tell Maki where Mira is and what she’s going to do. With this, Maki will aim to destroy the sword mid swing, forcing Mira to use No sword style which is a wrong move due to her lack of knowledge on Maki’s Split Soul Katana.
• Maki is unpredictable enough to literally let Mira land a hit on her just to get a fatal attack in. Given her massive endurance and durability advantage it’s gonna be pretty easy for Maki.
• Maki has far higher maneuverability as she’s more agile, and can literally move mid air into another position in space.

Maki is already an exceptional fighter with advantages that are extremely beneficial to the average combatants. These advantages close the gap in skill between Mira and Maki. Even the very lack of knowledge Mira has on Maki’s abilities and weaponry is a very big disadvantage which will lessen the chance of Mira to always make the right decisions like those who claim she would all the time to somehow avoid every hit.

With all that said, Maki will surely land at least 1 or 2 hits on Mira sooner or later with Split Soul Katana. Mira is more skilled than Maki but the arguments for Mira’s skill has a lot of nuance to them. She requires Ikki’s level of skill to avoid every hit but she’s nowhere near that level, especially at this point in the series.

Put me down for Maki @Phoenks. The rest of my efforts in this thread will be put into looking at and addressing Mira’s skill

All im reading from this is vague upscaling from Zen'in clan jobbers with no actual skill feats, who got crushed by Maki simply overpowering them.

You do realize Mira is using the sword embedded in that character to her advantage to perform internal damage right?

Do YOU realize the very first scan I sent in that post shows Mira utilizing it with a single sword swing, or did you not see that one-?

 

[Arnoldstone18]

All im reading from this is vague upscaling from Zen'in clan jobbers with no actual skill feats, who got crushed by Maki simply overpowering them.

Nah.

This was even before she became like Toji and even after she does become like him she doesn’t overpower Naoya.

Do YOU realize the very first scan I sent in that post shows Mira utilizing it with a single sword swing, or did you not see that one-?

Nothing about internal damage in that scan.

 

[azontr]

Nah

Top tier argument. "Nah"

This was even before she became like Toji and even after she does become like him she doesn’t overpower Naoya.

She one shot Naoya the moment she got a hit on him after outspeeding his technique. She very explicitly overpowered him.

Nothing about internal damage in that scan.

It's the same technique. The name of the technique is the same and it has an identical effect on the opponents its used on. Assuming the effects are different requires more assumptions on your end.

 

[Phoenks]

She’s just one of the best fighters among highly trained fighters in the Zenin division. Being able to effectively combat many characters in the higher echelons of the Zenin clan. She is even able to go toe to toe and defeat the highest ranking member of the Zenin clan. That’s before she got fully realized with all those abilities and likened to Toji himself. That’s all I’ll say. All this is enough for Maki to fight competently and with all of her natural abilities she can land one or two blows at least.

So Toji = Maki > Highly Trained Fighters

What makes those highly trained fighters any good in comparison to Mira? Also, you realize Mira would dance around the typical "highly trained" person in her own verse, right?

Unlike the forms of analytical predictions in GoH, the air molecules tell Maki where Mira is and what she’s going to do. With this, Maki will aim to destroy the sword mid swing, forcing Mira to use No sword style which is a wrong move due to her lack of knowledge on Maki’s Split Soul Katana.

Mira has fought people with better analytical prediction.

Maki is unpredictable enough to literally let Mira land a hit on her just to get a fatal attack in. Given her massive endurance and durability advantage it’s gonna be pretty easy for Maki.

What makes her so unpredictable that you think that'd happen?

Maki has far higher maneuverability as she’s more agile, and can literally move mid air into another position in space.

Why do you think so? Pretty sure Mira can do the same thing lol.

Maki is already an exceptional fighter with advantages that are extremely beneficial to the average combatants. These advantages close the gap in skill between Mira and Maki. Even the very lack of knowledge Mira has on Maki’s abilities and weaponry is a very big disadvantage which will lessen the chance of Mira to always make the right decisions like those who claim she would all the time to somehow avoid every hit.

With all that said, Maki will surely land at least 1 or 2 hits on Mira sooner or later with Split Soul Katana. Mira is more skilled than Maki but the arguments for Mira’s skill has a lot of nuance to them. She requires Ikki’s level of skill to avoid every hit despite all the odds against her but she’s nowhere near that level, especially at this point in the series.

Not going to lie this isn't a very good look for Maki.

All you really said is that she scales above trained fighters, which is absolutely nothing in the God of Highschool.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

How exactly does this skill overcome a 5x durability gap? Maki can fight hordes of people while suffering internal injuries and one eye, then someone comparable to her, then have her insides blown up and get up, and heal. Why exactly doesn’t Maki just outlast her?

 

[azontr]

How exactly does this skill overcome a 5x durability gap? Maki can fight hordes of people while suffering internal injuries and one eye, then someone comparable to her, then have her insides blown up and get up, and heal. Why exactly doesn’t Maki just outlast her?

Those hordes of people were a bunch of randos Maki easily defeated while not getting hit a single time and killing them all in one hit with dura neg.

The Zen'in clan massacre is not some miraculous stamina feat for Maki. She defeated everyone there bar Naoya with practically no effort, and even against Naoya the actual damage she took was minimal.

 

[Phoenks]

How exactly does this skill overcome a 5x durability gap?

Piercing damage. Also, Mira has a durability negation technique that Azontr talked about before.

Maki can fight hordes of people while suffering internal injuries and one eye, then someone comparable to her, then have her insides blown up and get up, and heal.

None of them are notable at all, especially in comparison to God of Highschool characters.

Even the randoms in the first few chapters of GoH are trained fighters and combatants. And Mira could solo groups of them without her glasses on lol.

Why exactly doesn’t Maki just outlast her?

She gets sliced apart within seconds.

 

[Arnoldstone18]

Top tier argument. "Nah"

It’s not an argument you’re just wrong.

More than half of what I said in that paragraph had no mention of the massacre where she outstats everyone she trained with. She is already a better fighter than those she trained with before that.

She one shot Naoya the moment she got a hit on him after outspeeding his technique. She very explicitly overpowered him

Yeah let’s ignore the fact that Naoya is running into a punch from Maki at the speed of sound. Let’s also ignore all the previous pages of Naoya being able to damage Maki.

It's the same technique. The name of the technique is the same and it has an identical effect on the opponents its used on. Assuming the effects are different requires more assumptions on your end.

Mira specifically states in your scan that she attacked the sword already embedded in her opponent’s shoulder to attack the less durable insides of her opponent’s durable body.

So no the attack on random npcs isn’t durability negation because she attacks the outside of their fodder body.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Those hordes of people were a bunch of randos Maki easily defeated while not getting hit a single time and killing them all in one hit with dura neg.

The Zen'in clan massacre is not some miraculous stamina feat for Maki. She defeated everyone there bar Naoya with practically no effort, and even against Naoya the actual damage she took was minimal.

Yes it is? You understand that she came into that fight after Ogi cut her innards, right?

None of them are notable at all, especially in comparison to God of Highschool characters.

Even the randoms in the first few chapters of GoH are trained fighters and combatants. And Mira could solo groups of them without her glasses on lol.

Not my point.

 

[azontr]

It’s not an argument you’re just wrong.

More than half of what I said in that paragraph had no mention of the massacre where she outstats everyone she trained with.

Why are you lying? The first part of your post literally says:

She’s just one of the best fighters among highly trained fighters in the Zenin division. Being able to effectively combat many characters in the higher echelons of the Zenin clan. She is even able to go toe to toe and defeat the highest ranking member of the Zenin clan. That’s before she got fully realized with all those abilities and likened to Toji himself. That’s all I’ll say. All this is enough for Maki to fight competently and with all of her natural abilities she can land one or two blows at least.

The rest of your points are just you saying "Maki has this, Maki has that, Maki is exceptionally skilled" which you only support by bringing up the Zen'in massacre.

You, yourself do not even know what you are saying somehow.

Yeah let’s ignore the fact that Naoya is running into a punch from Maki at the speed of sound. Let’s also ignore all the previous pages of Naoya being able to damage Maki.

1. Irregardless, it's not a feat of skill to punch someone in the face really hard. I don't understand where you get the idea of this being the case, irregardless of whether or not Naoya's speed contributed to the damage he took.

2. Naoya also had to hit Maki SEVERAL times to damage her. He hit her multiple times moving at high speed and she was completely undamaged. The most damage he did was making her head bleed after ANOTHER series of high speed attacks.

Mira specifically states in your scan that she attacked the sword already embedded in her opponent’s shoulder to attack the less durable insides of her opponent’s durable body.

So no the attack on random npcs isn’t durability negation because she attacks the outside of their fodder body.

Okay, so you feel free to ignore all the evidence in favor of headcanon. I won't be entertaining an argument that basically amounts to "nuh uh".

Yes it is? You understand that she came into that fight after Ogi cut her innards, right?

Which would've healed in minutes after she achieved Heavenly Restriction.

 

[ZoroNotZolo]

I'm voting for the teenaged girl FRA