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Deku vs Maki (MHA vs JJK) (14-2-0) (Grace)

Dr._whiteee said:
I listed them in the post above and explained why there are better. I have yet to see a scan of Deku's sensing though, so I'd appreciate if you could also posts those while responding to my arguments above.
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Check my very first post it has four separate Imgur galleries with all his analytical prediction feats, including when he predicted people FTE to him or objects that were invisible to him. Idk what you mean by sensing but Danger Sense handles that and Maki having no CE is irrelevant if she has emotions.
 
Dr._whiteee said:
It allows her to see the dynamic between information in her environment. The range of this is extended for hundreds of meters as you can see here. So essentially, the moment something disturbs an air molecule, a photon, a rock on the floor, makes a noise, etc., it's going to be transmitted into the environment and create a ripple effect. Maki can see those ripples across multiple sensory modalities and beyond the physical/spiritual (quality difference) duality in JJK (which is why she can see the "souls" of cursed spirits and inorganic matter). I'm pretty positive that's well beyond anything in BnHA given it's a purely physical verse.
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So, she can only sense direct things that make movement. It doesn't really speak for how many moves ahead she can predict, rather what is directly coming at her. In which case Deku still level the playing field. You can add spiritual and ontological terms but it doesn't mean anything much here.
Dr._whiteee said:
Yeah, the problem for you here is that CE covers both of those things. You argument would work of the things present in Bnha weren't already covered by JJK's stuff and not the other way around.
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Doesn't seem like it. All you're really saying is that she has good prediction relative to her verse and "resistance" to it due to lacking CE. But, that doesn't matter here as DS simply senses your own brain activity or similar things.
Dr._whiteee said:
Yeah and HR gives her a special disposition that regular biological humans would not benefit from.
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Like what? What does she have that humans from MHA don't have?
Dr._whiteee said:
Physical and supernatural. Just because supernatural stuff is also covered by CE doesn't negate the fact that CE also covers physical stuff. That's a benefit for JJK interaction, not a detriment.
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In this case its a detriment I guess.
Dr._whiteee said:
It doesn't matter. The "soul" here is just information type 2 at the end of the day and information is something that scales and covers physical interaction.
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Elaborate on that, please.
Dr._whiteee said:
That's not really a problem if no skill or stat gap exists. A much less skilled and padded up Yuji could do the same thing while confined in extreme close quarters and Maki literally kill bill'd a room of CqC specialist attacking her from different angles while she had her intestines falling out.
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If a skill gap doesn't exist then it's worse for Maki. Any neither of those are comparable since black whip can be used multiple times instantly, and across his entire body and at a much bigger range.
Dr._whiteee said:
That's why I said skill and sensing will be paramount here.
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Kinda, yeah. Though I haven't seen anything as impressive.
 
Also, if you choose to vote for someone, please make it clear who. Like explicitly "Deku FRA" or "Maki FRA" so I can count votes.
 
Deku's predictions is based on his intelligence. He's never went against someone with Analytical Prediction like Maki's as far as I'm aware, and in terms of sheer sensing Maki's senses are significantly better. Deku has no feats of sensing things like temperature changes, vibrations in the air, see invisible shit like Curses via enhanced senses, or anything of the sort.


At best when it comes to invisibility his best feat is sensing "invisible air." which is invisible anyhow and significantly lower than the invisibility from Curses. Also Deku predicting an old out of Prime Gran via predicting his movements isn't as impressive as it seems as Gran isn't actively trying to harm Deku nor blitz him. He slowly increased his speed to train Deku, furthermore Deku stans like every Hero so he most likely had knowledge on Gran already.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Check my very first post it has four separate Imgur galleries with all his analytical prediction feats, including when he predicted people FTE to him or objects that were invisible to him. Idk what you mean by sensing but Danger Sense handles that and Maki having no CE is irrelevant if she has emotions.
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Let me ask you a few questions.
1.) Can Deku sense souls?
2.) Can Deku sense Information (type 2)?
3.) In the physical realm, is Deku's potency enough to not only sense over a range of hundreds of meters, but also not need to distinguish between different types of stimuli?

If the answer to number 3 is no, then Maki has leagues more access to information for her prediciton than Deku does given she'd have far better physical sensing concerning quality and quantity.

If the answer to 1 and/or 2 is no, then she inherently has better sensing as it extends beyond the quality of physicality and can pick up other information not even possibly accessible to Deku.

With speed equal, I don't really see any avenue where it could be argued Deku's is better. Especially if Deku hasn't foughten anybody with significant skill.
 
Deku FRA, Maki cannot stop him from gaining Fa Jin and he’s over 3x stronger than her already.

He flies around using Air Force and Blackwhip attacks and she either gets bodied by his own predictions or survives. He then blitzes her with Fa Jin. She does not land a hit because she has no way of reaching him.
 
LordGinSama said:
Deku's predictions is based on his intelligence. He's never went against someone with Analytical Prediction like Maki's as far as I'm aware, and in terms of sheer sensing Maki's senses are significantly better. Deku has no feats of sensing things like temperature changes, vibrations in the air, see invisible shit like Curses via enhanced senses, or anything of the sort.


At best when it comes to invisibility his best feat is sensing "invisible air." which is invisible anyhow and significantly lower than the invisibility from Curses. Also Deku predicting an old out of Prime Gran via predicting his movements isn't as impressive as it seems as Gran isn't actively trying to harm Deku nor blitz him. He slowly increased his speed to train Deku, furthermore Deku stans like every Hero so he most likely had knowledge on Gran already.
Click to expand...
Ok, her senses are better. That is irrelevant for prediction as Deku is leagues smarter. Her sensing an ass beating doesn’t stop it.

Gran Torino was FTE to Deku and Deku had no knowledge of Torino. Gran Torino was not a hero that anyone knew of so no he didn’t stan him. Please read the manga before judging things. Gran Torino was going FTE to Deku and considered that fair but Deku predicted him anyway, so Torino went even faster. Look at Torino’s profile and understand how he scales, he was holding back enough to be faster than Deku could see but got caught off guard by Deku’s predictions.

Dr._whiteee said:
Let me ask you a few questions.
1.) Can Deku sense souls?
2.) Can Deku sense Information (type 2)?
3.) In the physical realm, is Deku's potency enough to not only sense over a range of hundreds of meters, but also not need to distinguish between different types of stimuli?

If the answer to number 3 is no, then Maki has leagues more access to information for her prediciton than Deku does given she'd have far better physical sensing concerning quality and quantity.

If the answer to 1 and/or 2 is no, then she inherently has better sensing as it extends beyond the quality of physicality and can pick up other information not even possibly accessible to Deku.

With speed equal, I don't really see any avenue where it could be argued Deku's is better. Especially if Deku hasn't foughten anybody with significant skill.
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No to all except 3 since Danger Sense works across kilometers and can be very specific. If this is what you mean by “senses” then yes, Deku is inferior to Maki when it comes to Extrasensory perception.

Unfortunately, senses don’t mean anything if your opponent can predict all your moves before you make them and can precog your attacks while having a massively expansive variety of abilities you can’t do anything about. If Deku floated in the air and stared at Maki until one of them died she couldn’t do anything about it, so that already puts a hard limit on what she can do with her sensing.

Your stance doesn’t actually address that Deku’s predictions would just outpace her senses since he’s predicting what she does in the future based on how she fights and moves, which seems superior to simply sensing an enemy.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Ok, her senses are better. That is irrelevant for prediction as Deku is leagues smarter. Her sensing an ass beating doesn’t stop it.

Gran Torino was FTE to Deku and Deku had no knowledge of Torino. Gran Torino was not a hero that anyone knew of so no he didn’t stan him. Please read the manga before judging things. Gran Torino was going FTE to Deku and considered that fair but Deku predicted him anyway, so Torino went even faster. Look at Torino’s profile and understand how he scales, he was holding back enough to be faster than Deku could see but got caught off guard by Deku’s predictions.


No to all except 3 since Danger Sense works across kilometers and can be very specific. If this is what you mean by “senses” then yes, Deku is inferior to Maki when it comes to Extrasensory perception.

Unfortunately, senses don’t mean anything if your opponent can predict all your moves before you make them and can precog your attacks while having a massively expansive variety of abilities you can’t do anything about. If Deku floated in the air and stared at Maki until one of them died she couldn’t do anything about it, so that already puts a hard limit on what she can do with her sensing.

Your stance doesn’t actually address that Deku’s predictions would just outpace her senses since he’s predicting what she does in the future based on how she fights and moves, which seems superior to simply sensing an enemy.
Click to expand...
ALTHOUGH you could argue deku can somewhat sense souls due to the vestiges.
 
She could sense all his attacks down to the molecular level as they come at her and it wouldn’t much matter if she gets blitzed by Fa Jin or something happens she is unprepared for/caught in a bad position to stop.

She can sense all the attacks but does that matter if an attack is coming in the middle of her movement and she can’t move fast enough to stop it?

Seeing the future in any capacity is limited by your own body. Deku takes specific advantage of the movements and trajectories of a person in order to catch them when they have little options of escaping whatever option he’s going for. Maki will fall prey to this as well unless she has something that prevents Deku from predicting her physical capabilities.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Ok, her senses are better. That is irrelevant for prediction as Deku is leagues smarter. Her sensing an ass beating doesn’t stop it.

Gran Torino was FTE to Deku and Deku had no knowledge of Torino. Gran Torino was not a hero that anyone knew of so no he didn’t stan him. Please read the manga before judging things. Gran Torino was going FTE to Deku and considered that fair but Deku predicted him anyway, so Torino went even faster. Look at Torino’s profile and understand how he scales, he was holding back enough to be faster than Deku could see but got caught off guard by Deku’s predictions.


No to all except 3 since Danger Sense works across kilometers and can be very specific. If this is what you mean by “senses” then yes, Deku is inferior to Maki when it comes to Extrasensory perception.

Unfortunately, senses don’t mean anything if your opponent can predict all your moves before you make them and can precog your attacks while having a massively expansive variety of abilities you can’t do anything about. If Deku floated in the air and stared at Maki until one of them died she couldn’t do anything about it, so that already puts a hard limit on what she can do with her sensing.

Your stance doesn’t actually address that Deku’s predictions would just outpace her senses since he’s predicting what she does in the future based on how she fights and moves, which seems superior to simply sensing an enemy.
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Ok say then Maki has an overhwhelming quality advantage to her sensing while Deku would have a further range of physical sensing (would also like scans for that) meaning she is going to have the better combat application here.

Maki can predict his moves, I just explained to you several times, that Maki's sensing is fine enough to read the patterns of fundamental information of physical phenomena and gave examples. I will need you to explain how Deku's is better. Predicting someone's movements based on intelligence and assumptions of their style is not nearly akin to literally reading the complex network of the environment itself on a scale much more vast than what Deku is sensing.

If Maki can read Deku and his attacks like a book, I'm not seeing how he doesn't lose, especially since Maki only needs one good cut.

Voting: Maki
 
Dr._whiteee said:
Ok say then Maki has an overhwhelming quality advantage to her sensing while Deku would have a further range of physical sensing (would also like scans for that) meaning she is going to have the better combat application here.

Maki can predict his moves, I just explained to you several times, that Maki's sensing is fine enough to read the patterns of fundamental information of physical phenomena and gave examples. I will need you to explain how Deku's is better. Predicting someone's movements based on intelligence and assumptions of their style is not nearly akin to literally reading the complex network of the environment itself on a scale much more vast than what Deku is sensing.

If Maki can read Deku and his attacks like a book, I'm not seeing how he doesn't lose, especially since Maki only needs one good cut.

Voting: Maki
Click to expand...
The quality is impressive. But the application is not.

Unless she is seeing several steps ahead of her opponent, her understanding and sensing of things around is not sufficient to stop a blitz or avoid Deku taking advantage of her movements to set up a trap that he goes for in nearly every fight. Predict the enemy, wait for them to move, hit them in their movement when they try to adjust, even if they know they’re caught.

Her prediction is based on fancy words but the baseline thing is: she can sense energy and matter to predict what might happen next. That tells her nothing of her opponents mind or helps her counter their moveset. Her tools are limited even if her knowledge is high.

I say again: if Deku stayed in the air with Float 10000 meters up and stared at Maki until she dropped dead, she would die before he did.

She does not have the tools to actually defeat Deku when he can fly and has wildly superior mobility with Blackwhip and his rapid-fire movements. She can sense anything but that doesn’t mean she can actually do anything.

And blitzes supersede senses anyway so a single charged up Fa Jin and Maki is cooked.
 
MintyBoi1 said:
Deku FRA, his insane mobility is a real advantage against any weapons user. I’ve seen it in prior threads
Click to expand...
Is this IC? If seen there say he's predominantly a CqC fighter.

What's his AOE? Maki's senses allowed her to dodge attacks from a couple hundred meters when she couldn't dodge the same attack from a similar distance prior. So increasing the range may be a detriment as it gives her more environmental buffer to sense. Unless Deku can Nuke cities or something.
 
Yeah I’d say it’s in character, afterall one of his primary strategies against Shigaraki is staying airborne. He was midair practically the whole fight against Lady Nagant and even before with Overhaul he was practically flying. His AOE I’m unsure of but I know he can make massive shockwaves with his attacks.

Does Deku have Gearshift here, because that’s speedblitz potential
 
Dr._whiteee said:
Is this IC? If seen there say he's predominantly a CqC fighter.

What's his AOE? Maki's senses allowed her to dodge attacks from a couple hundred meters when she couldn't dodge the same attack from a similar distance prior. So increasing the range may be a detriment as it gives her more environmental buffer to sense. Unless Deku can Nuke cities or something.
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For this key he is limited to Air Force blasts which are more bullet like, so she can dodge them from a sufficient range (until he predicts her movements and snipes her with multiple in between her trying to avoid others).

If you’re referring to staying in the air, yes, he spams staying in the air against literally every opponent because it’s useful.

In a fight like this where he is not at his peak (restricted below 45 or even 30% of his usual strength), his main focus is gonna be:

1. Keep at distance and study the enemy
2. Build Fa Jin and outspeed them to end fight as fast as possible
3. Restrain enemy
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Unless she is seeing several steps ahead of her opponent, her understanding and sensing of things around is not sufficient to stop a blitz or avoid Deku taking advantage of her movements to set up a trap that he goes for in nearly every fight. Predict the enemy, wait for them to move, hit them in their movement when they try to adjust, even if they know they’re caught.

And blitzes supersede senses anyway so a single charged up Fa Jin and Maki is cooked.
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Sorry if I wasn't clear enough in my prior post.

Maki can sense the minute fundamental information of the environment for hundreds of meters. This network of stimuli is literally so vast I wouldn't put a number on it.

One wave of information of sound for instance, could be a ridiculous amount of information per unit depending on what you use. Maki covers the units of all five senses and can sense each type of unit with each of her sensory modalities (See she can "see" an invisible attack that makes sound waves in addition to hearing it).

For scale, prior to her awakening, Maki was blitzed by a character from hundreds of meters away. Once she awoken her sensing, Maki dodged the same speed while mid air and not looking at the person, as he attempted to blitz her from dozens of meters away. So yeah, the gap does cover blitzing and puts her from getting blitzed from hundreds of meters away to casually reacting to said speed in an uber compromised position and not even looking at the person.
 
Dr._whiteee said:
Sorry if I wasn't clear enough in my prior post.

Maki can sense the minute fundamental information of the environment for hundreds of meters. This network of stimuli is literally so vast I wouldn't put a number on it.

One wave of information of sound for instance, could be a ridiculous amount of information per unit depending on what you use. Maki covers the units of all five senses and can sense each type of unit with each of her sensory modalities (See she can "see" an invisible attack that makes sound waves in addition to hearing it).

For scale, prior to her awakening, Maki was blitzed by a character from hundreds of meters away. Once she awoken her sensing, Maki dodged the same speed while mid air and not looking at the person, as he attempted to blitz her from dozens of meters away. So yeah, the gap does cover blitzing and puts her from getting blitzed from hundreds of meters away to casually reacting to said speed in an uber compromised position and not even looking at the person.
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From what I’m seeing she got faster so her reacting to a blitz doesn’t mean much since she just got faster.

Also I don’t see a blitz anyway she seems just off guard in that first one and idk what’s happening in the second one other than her landing on something?

The more specific you get, the less impressive it sounds personally. She can sense things like crazy but she still has limits physically, everyone does, and Deku exploits that with his predictions. Nothing you’re saying relays to me that she can do much more than trajectory prediction, which Deku can do without any of what she has. She might be more consistent I suppose but feat wise I don’t actually see anything impressive yet.

Seeing invisible attacks is irrelevant as Deku uses invisible attacks himself and can avoid or exploit them as seen with Nine’s gust quirk and Gentle’s air barriers.
 
Also Deku could predict a blitz from Gran Torino, and then had 8 arcs where his predictions kept getting better.

Hell against Nagant, her bullets WERE blitzing him the closer he got, so fast his Danger Sense was being outpaced, but he simply got better mid fight over the course of like 30 seconds to reverse predict her bullets through trajectories that were impossible due to her curving bullet paths, all while holding back his movements to protect his joints and build up Fa Jin.

I’d say it’s more impressive to predict people without any knowledge of your surroundings beyond what you can see and your sheer intelligence than through sensing things and reacting to what you sense.

It’s like being given a textbook for a test vs predicting the material based on your teacher’s habits and being correct.
 
Kingofwolves999 said:
Deku’s Blackwhip strands are as durable as he needs them to be scaling with his own strength.

Precog from Danger Sense completely shuts down Maki hitting him. This alone makes it hard for her to do anything. CE is a separate thing while Danger Sense focuses purely on “malicious intent,” so if she has any negative intentions while going to hit him it will work.

Base Deku in all of his keys is allowed to amp up to 8% and remain 8-A so his Air Force shockwaves nearly one shot Maki. He also gets a speed amp and blitzes Maki.

Deku can make at least 5+ Blackwhip strands from any part of his body and control all of them separately. If he grabs Maki once she’s done.

Fa Jin is a speed and AP amp that would one shot Maki.

Deku can fly so Maki even reaching him is basically impossible if he wants it. He can stay in the air and Air Force blast her and she can’t do anything about it since his predictions will let him hit.


Deku’s analytical prediction feats are:

1. Early, baby Deku predicting Gran Torino’s FTE movements to the point that Gran Torino had to use even higher speed to avoid getting hit and still was grazed.



2. Predicting Mirio’s movements after only seeing him fight for 5 seconds to the point he was already going to kick Mirio before he realized Deku predicted him.



3. Predicting Gentle Criminal’s invisible air barrier placement and size so precisely he could snipe one of his Air Force blasts off them at the perfect angle to hit Gentle himself, then kept up with Gentle’s movements despite his prior predictions getting overwhelmed. (He has no special sense to see invisible things his intelligence is just that high)



4. Reverse-tracking Lady Nagant’s bullet trajectories despite her attacks coming from impossible angles due to her own massive analytical predictions feats that involve pre-firing bullets to curve and hit targets that haven’t even gotten to their destination yet. His predictions overwhelmed hers such that he was counter predicting her shots and nearly grabbed her from dozens of meters away.



All of these are sheer intelligence and don’t rely on Danger Sense, which just makes him disgustingly harder to hit.

Her profile says she has this resistance because she has NO CE. Does she therefore have no emotions at all? If so then yes she would not register on Danger Sense since she would have no malicious intent.

If she has emotions but no CE, then CE is irrelevant as that isn’t what Danger Sense cares for. Danger Sense is sensing things either from your brain or body functions and relaying them as “threat” to the user.

JJK’s power system and MHA’s power system are not compatible enough to equalize unless you believe All For One could steal all Cursed Energy in the world by simply existing if he was in that verse.

He uses more whips since they are effectively infinite or swaps to Air Force blasts that nearly one shot Maki.

Fa Jin doesn’t work like that at all, lol? Fa Jin absorbs HIS KE by him jumping or punching or squatting. Maki cannot stop him from gaining Fa Jin energy at all and if he gets enough he will blitz her and break every bone in her body with the AP difference it gives him.
Click to expand...

Very cool but see the thing is….

Not only was cursed Naoya faster than Maki by an insanely blitz able degree but she literally can’t even see or interact with cursed spirits to begin with.

Maki’s senses and predictions of movements are so insane that she’s essentially squaring up with a ghost each and every time she fights because she can’t even see or exorcise cursed spirits to begin with.

But her senses are so great that she’s able to see and predict things that are literally impossible to be seen.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjktcb_197_008.png

It took Deku a very tries to guess invisible barriers but Maki is mid air dodging something that is not only invisible to her but also something that is significantly faster than her too. And making them look like a fool at it no less.
https://cdn.****************.com/file/CDN-M-A-N/jjktcb_197_011.png

Maki’s analytical prediction is insane if she’s on the regular fighting things that can’t be seen or felt by her.
 
Deku FRA no diff

Danger sense will let Deku avoid any strikes Maki dishes out. Black whip can attack from range and is much much stronger, he can just snatch and break Maki's weapons with black whip alone and restrain her. Then there is the boost from Fa jin.

One punch and Maki's internal organs would be turned into tomato puree.
 
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