Majora's Time Stop

[The_real_cal_howard]

Majora has ZA WARUDO.

In all seriousness, Majora created the moon, in which the core of it, time is stopped. The ever-present in game clock is stopped, the effects of Chateau Romani doesn't run out, etc. Given the entire premise of the game focuses on time, I highly doubt it's game mechanics.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Seems fine, tho I don't remember Majora's Mask that much.

 

[NeoZex6399]

Makes sense.

 

[Warren_Valion]

This would also add "Resistance to Time Stop" for Link, correct?

Anyway, I disagree.

Time stops moving when you are in the Clock Tower as well, and to my knowledge, we don't assume that The Happy Mask Salesman is the one stopping it - and it isn't Link, so it has to be game mechanics.

And if that is game mechanics, why wouldn't this be?

The entire gimmick of the game isn't Time, but Time Management - because the moon is about to crash to the planet and will destroy it in three days. When you fight Majora - The Four Giants are holding up the moon, so it makes sense as to why the timer disappears. However Majora, during its fight with Link, forces the moon to crash at a rate that even The Four Giants working together can barely hold on, and so Link is on the clock to stop Majora.

Said final fight with Majora probably only lasts a handful of minutes in the first place, it isn't like Link is just standing there indefinitely - he came in the moon to kill Majora, and as quickly as possible.


So yeah, I disagree.

 

[TriforcePower1]

Majora has ZA WARUDO.

Does that mean that the Happy Mask Salesman is Old Enya?

I'm against this. As Warren said (and for the first time we both agree with something Zelda related OvO), the main reason the clock is absent in Majora's moon is because the three days have already ended, and the clock was a countdown to the moon crashing in Termina, event that got stopped by the Giants. So yeah, the clock is absent simply because it's not countdowning anything anymore.

 

[Dust_Collector]

I also agree with Warren.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

The 3 days didn't end during the clock going by the basic assumption, Link got up there around 12-12:30 AM, and played his oath to order then, Majora re-powered the moon which would give an extra 5-6 hours of the moon falling down. I'll remain neutral to this also. But just pointing out what was wrong with the "3 days ended" argument.

 

[Warren_Valion]

The 3 days didn't end during the clock going by the basic assumption, Link got up there around 12-12:30 AM, and played his oath to order then, Majora re-powered the moon which would give an extra 5-6 hours of the moon falling down. I'll remain neutral to this also. But just pointing out what was wrong with the "3 days ended" argument.

The three days time-limit is the countdown to when the moon crashes to the ground.

Having the giants be summoned and hold up the moon gets rid of the timer, because the moon isn't on the course for colliding with the planet anymore.

So no, the "3 days ended" argument isn't wrong.

 

[Wokistan]

I feel like the clock is stopped because the giants can hold off the moon, as opposed to time not flowing within Majora. I'm more with warren rn.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

The three days time-limit is the countdown to when the moon crashes to the ground.

Having the giants be summoned and hold up the moon gets rid of the timer, because the moon isn't on the course for colliding with the planet anymore.

So no, the "3 days ended" argument is wrong.

If the moon continues to fall the timer would logically continue, I don't know why I need to explain that. You also seem to agree that the "3 days ended" argument is wrong unless you mispelled.

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Time stops moving when you are in the Clock Tower as well, and to my knowledge, we don't assume that The Happy Mask Salesman is the one stopping it

I mean, there's a whole theory about the Happy Mask Salesman being one of Zelda's gods so maybe he does stop time ovo

Anyway, disagree FRA.

 

[Warren_Valion]

The three days time-limit is the countdown to when the moon crashes to the ground.

Having the giants be summoned and hold up the moon gets rid of the timer, because the moon isn't on the course for colliding with the planet anymore.

So no, the "3 days ended" argument is wrong.

If the moon continues to fall the timer would logically continue, I don't know why i need to explain that. You also seem to agree that the "3 days ended" argument is wrong unless you mispelled.

The moon doesn't fall, the Giants are still holding it up when you enter it to fight Majora.

The three days haven't ended, but the moon stopped descending towards the planet - which is the whole point of having a timer.

And yes, I misspelled.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Time stops moving when you are in the Clock Tower as well, and to my knowledge, we don't assume that The Happy Mask Salesman is the one stopping it

I mean, there's a whole theory about the Happy Mask Salesman being one of Zelda's gods so maybe he does stop time ovo

Anyway, disagree FRA.

I am an avid believer of such a theory but these downplayers could never understand the true Dark Lord.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

The moon doesn't fall, the Giants are still holding it up when you enter it to fight Majora.

The three days haven't ended, but the moon stopped descending towards the planet - which is the whole point of having a timer.

And yes, I misspelled.

The giants are literally struggling to hold it and Tatl warns Link to go back in time.

It didn't stop as shown in the scan it was actually continuing to fall the giant's literally were struggling to keep it held, hence why Tatl told Link to immedieatly go back in time.

 

[Warren_Valion]

The giants are literally struggling to hold it and Tatl warns Link to go back in time.

It didn't stop as shown in the scan it was actually continuing to fall the giant's literally were struggling to keep it held, hence why Tatl told Link to immedieatly go back in time.

Majora was forcing it down with his power, but they were still holding it up - they are just struggling to keep it up. Tatl thought they failed, as the Giants wouldn't be able to hold on forever, and eventually, the moon would start falling towards the planet once again.

Which connects to my point before where I said this, "However Majora, during its fight with Link, forces the moon to crash at a rate that even The Four Giants working together can barely hold on, and so Link is on the clock to stop Majora.

Said final fight with Majora probably only lasts a handful of minutes in the first place, it isn't like Link is just standing there indefinitely - he came in the moon to kill Majora, and as quickly as possible."

Link isn't staying there indefinitely, he went in to kill Majora because he knows the Giants can't hold onto the moon for long - but they are still holding it up as he goes in and fights Majora - and thus the timer isn't needed anymore as the moon stopped free-falling.

And when Majora is killed, it is obvious that the moon was still being held up the entire time because it was shown to have not crashed into the ground.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Majora was forcing it down with his power, but they were still holding it up - they are just struggling to keep it up. Tatl thought they failed, as the Giants wouldn't be able to hold on forever, and eventually, the moon would start falling towards the planet once again.

Which connects to my point before where I said this, "However Majora, during its fight with Link, forces the moon to crash at a rate that even The Four Giants working together can barely hold on, and so Link is on the clock to stop Majora.

Said final fight with Majora probably only lasts a handful of minutes in the first place, it isn't like Link is just standing there indefinitely - he came in the moon to kill Majora, and as quickly as possible."

Link isn't staying there indefinitely, he went in to kill Majora because he knows the Giants can't hold onto the moon for long - but they are still holding it up as he goes in and fights Majora - and thus the timer isn't needed anymore as the moon stopped free-falling.

And when Majora is killed, it is obvious that the moon was still being held up the entire time because it was shown to have not crashed into the ground.

Ok what does this disprove? This doesn't mean the crash was stopped and was going to continue as the giants would not be able to hold it forever. It connects to a point that doesn't disprove that the three days are done, ok? I don't know why you're mentioning this part, I never claimed nor implied Link stands there indefinitely, this is gish gallop. They are barely able to hold it, the timer is in fact needed as they wouldn't be able to hold it forever, hence why Tatl wanted him to go back in time at first.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Ok what does this disprove? This doesn't mean the crash was stopped and was going to continue as the giants would not be able to hold it forever. It connects to a point that doesn't disprove that the three days are done, ok? I don't know why you're mentioning this part, I never claimed nor implied Link stands there indefinitely, this is gish gallop. They are barely able to hold it, the timer is in fact needed as they wouldn't be able to hold it forever, hence why Tatl wanted him to go back in time at first.

The timer only exists when the moon is in free-fall.

Just because the Giants were struggling to hold up the moon after Majora started forcing it down - doesn't mean that the moon is still falling to the planet, they are still holding it up.

It's location when the moon is destoryed along with Majora shows that the Giants were able to keep it up.

Just because they were struggling to hold it, does not mean they weren't holding it up. Thus the timer is erased.

Do you consider an object being held up as constantly falling toward the ground because gravity is always acting on it? I don't, and I don't see why it wouldn't be the same here. The Giants collective force is greater than the Moon, albiet it is pushing them to their limts, they are still holding it up.

Not to mention, it would be impossible to preform all the sidequests in the moon and defeat Majora in the alotted time, so getting rid of the timer makes sense.


What is so hard to understand about this?

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

The moon isn't in free fall when a giant is holding it, yet time continues.

Yes, it is still falling to the planet, hence why in the same video I linked to you the timer continues to go on and why tatl warns Link to travel back in time.

Quote where I claimed they weren't holding it right now please. Actually, I'll do you one better, let me quote my previous reply, "The giants are literally struggling to hold it and Tatl warns Link to go back in time." Nice to know I'm being strawmanned.

The object is by no means being held up, it's being partially stopped, and it's actually slowly falling, hence why you see the giants struggling, that's how gravity works and newton's laws of motion.

Can you explain why it would be impossible to do all of those sidequest in 4-6 hours please? This seems like an argument from belief.

That's a question I should be asking you.

 

[Warren_Valion]

The moon isn't in free fall when a giant is holding it, yet time continues.
Yes, it is still falling to the planet, hence why in the same video I linked to you the timer continues to go on and why tatl warns Link to travel back in time.

Quote where I claimed they weren't holding it right now please. Actually, I'll do you one better, let me quote my previous reply, "The giants are literally struggling to hold it and Tatl warns Link to go back in time." Nice to know I'm being strawmanned.

The object is by no means being held up, it's being partially stopped, and it's actually slowly falling, hence why you see the giants struggling, that's how gravity works and newton's laws of motion.

Can you explain why it would be impossible to do all of those sidequest in 4-6 hours please? This seems like an argument from belief.

That's a question I should be asking you.

That's because the three of them aren't able to stop the moon - it takes the four of them. It would be like trying to catch an object that's too heavy and you fall along down with it.

Quote where I made such an assertion? I never claim you said shit, I just explained what was happening in the scene.

And that despite the fact that the Giants were struggling to keep up the moon, it was, in fact, being kept up by their force as shown by the cutscene in which Majora is killed and the moon is destroyed when it never moved from its position - so no, it isn't slowly falling.

And no, you aren't being straw-manned.


Anyway, I am done arguing with you about this - saying the same shit over and over again is pointless.

 

[Theglassman12]

I disagree as well. Saying that he's able to timestop cause of that is completely disregarding the giants that are stopping the moon from falling in the first place.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

That's... exactly what was going to happen to the four giants. You literally just proved my initial point.

"Just because they were struggling to hold it, does not mean they weren't holding it up. Thus the timer is erased." ^This goes under the implication I made that claim, when I never did, if you're aware of this then bringing it up was gish gallop.

The same exact thing was happening in the 3 giants scene I showed, show any proof it stayed in the same exact position please, yet another argument from belief.

 

[Warren_Valion]

That's... exactly what was going to happen to the four giants. You literally just proved my initial point.
"Just because they were struggling to hold it, does not mean they weren't holding it up. Thus the timer is erased." ^This goes under the implication I made that claim, when I never did, if you're aware of this then bringing it up was gish gallop.

The same exact thing was happening in the 3 giants scene I showed, show any proof it stayed in the same exact position please, yet another argument from belief.

That's just your interpretation of the meaning of my words, I wasn't implying that you said that. I was stating the obvious as I said, no need to get so fussy over it.

And I already proved it stayed in the same position with the final cutscene that I have mentioned numerous times and already linked once before.

See how the moon is still above them when it disappears in the rainbow-colored magic?


Also, with what I said before, it would be impossible to beat Majora and complete the side quest in the allotted time because you don't get a 4-6 hour cycle.

You are forgetting the time it takes the giants to reach the moon is accounted for as well, that's why in the video you showed it had an "hour" time-limit before the moon would crash.

That "hour" takes like a minute. You can't complete all four sidequests and defeat Majora in a minute - that isn't physically possible.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

TFW I thought this thread was dead which is why I didn't close it.

Well, it saves me the trouble of making a new thread saying Majora should have teleportation while possessing Skull Kid because Skull Kid can teleport as shown in Twilight Princess.

 

[Theglassman12]

He didn't teleport, Link was just way slower than him that he couldn't catch up with him.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Simple problem solving, x never claimed this and his claim directly shows he didn't, y randomly brings it up apart of his refute. X has all the reason to assume y is misrepresenting his words. Where did I get fussy over it? Is pointing out a fallacy now getting "fussy"? You're reading too into my replies, if anything it seems you've gotten heated with your previouss reply.

How does that prove it's in the same position? You realize with your premise of it taking a few minutes even if it's still falling it's not falling that far correct?

You're attempting to use in-game time mechanics.

That's still a time limit continuing, what's your point here?

The hour taking a minute is once again, in-game time mechanics. Unless we now unironically believe 3 days in Zelda universe is 52 minutes long without slowing down time.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Simple problem solving, x never claimed this and his claim directly shows he didn't, y randomly brings it up apart of his refute. X has all the reason to assume y is misrepresenting his words. Where did I get fussy over it? Is pointing out a fallacy now getting "fussy"? You're reading too into my replies, if anything it seems you've gotten heated with your previouss reply.
How does that prove it's in the same position? You realize with your premise of it taking a few minutes even if it's still falling it's not falling that far correct?

You're attempting to use in-game time mechanics.

That's still a time limit continuing, what's your point here?

The hour taking a minute is once again, in-game time mechanics. Unless we now unironically believe 3 days in Zelda universe is 52 minutes long without slowing down time.

By "fussy", I mean you accused me of strawmannning your argument - which I didn't. I don't like being accused of things that I don't do, and view such an accusation as quite the serious offense.

And what? It proves that it is in the same position by being in the same position. Showing that the Giants were still holding the moon up the entire time. That it isn't falling, that the Giants are still lifting it up from Majora trying to push it down from their grasp.


And I'm using game mechanics as a secondary form of proof that goes with my earlier point of, '"Not to mention, it would be impossible to perform all the sidequests in the moon and defeat Majora in the allotted time, so getting rid of the timer makes sense."

The hour in the game is an hour in the Zelda Universe, but it taking about a minute from our perspective just means it would be physically impossible to be able to beat all the sidequests and the final boss in the allotted time. Thus getting rid of the timer makes sense from a game point of view to allow the player to beat the game.

And to prove that you were wrong in saying it would, in fact, be possible to complete the sidequests and defeat the final boss in the allotted time. You don't get a 4-6 hour time-frame to accomplish the quests in the moon that you said the player would have. You only get an in-universe hour which translates to about a minute in real-time, which again, makes it physically impossible to beat the game. This is because you didn't include the time that passed for the Giants to be summoned to start holding the moon up.

Not that, I made the argument that 3 days in Zelda is actually 52 minutes long.

Where did I say anything like this?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

TFW I thought this thread was dead which is why I didn't close it.

Well, it saves me the trouble of making a new thread saying Majora should have teleportation while possessing Skull Kid because Skull Kid can teleport as shown in Twilight Princess.

 

[Warren_Valion]

Can't the Skull Kid also summon puppet things via a horn?

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Ye

 

[Warren_Valion]

Ye

Can Majora even use the abilities of the body it is controlling?

I mean, he never teleported in Majora when he totally could of.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

I don't see why he shouldn't be able to. He never really needed to teleport anyway. Nobody could stop him (barring FD Link) and he had no reason to run.

 

[Warren_Valion]

I don't see why he shouldn't be able to. He never really needed to teleport anyway. Nobody could stop him (barring FD Link) and he had no reason to run.

Well, he ran away from Link at the beginning of the game.

He dodged Link by out-pacing him, not by teleporting for example.

I could, however, agree with a "Possibly has the abilities of the Skull Kid which he possessed as well, which include teleportation and summoning via a horn"