Major Mortal Kombat Revision, Part I

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I already applied a lot of new ratings but if this calc is very important, then you should request someone to calc it.

 

[Antvasima]

If you list all of the available evidence for the feat, I can ask for calculations help.

 

[SamanPatou]

Okay. Is somebody willing to apply what has been accepted here then?

Ectasy is already doing it and has almost finished.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That is good then. Preferably tell us here when this has been done.

 

[SamanPatou]

I already applied a lot of new ratings but if this calc is very important, then you should request someone to calc it.

It would be a good support, as the mid and low tiers currently scale somewhere around Scorpion and Sub-Zero, but most of them are portrayed as generally inferior to them, while Revenant Liu Kang at the beginning of MK11 got defeated by Cassie.

If you list all of the available evidence for the feat, I can ask for calculations help.

This is the feat

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

@Damage3245 @Ugarik @Armorchompy @Migue79 @Therefir

Would any of you be willing to calculate the following feat please? Preferably tell us here if you accept.

 

[SamanPatou]

I went through the remaining profiles from the new timeline that need to be updated accordingly with the revisions, just to have a clear picture.

These are: Takeda, Tremor, Kintaro, Goro and Tarkatan Xenomorph.

I'm not sure about Reiko and Havik, they need some tweak but most of their new timeline characterization comes from the comics, and maybe they should be rated with its feats, although we don't use them entirely anymore for the game characters.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I wonder if the Xenomorph would get owned, but seeing how it's an original creation, it might have a chance to stay.

Takeda would be low tier now that his Jinsei boost and his encounter with Havik is ambiguously non-canon, same goes for Tremor due to being a comic exclusive character (in terms of canon story), Kintaro and Goro could be low or mid tiers (Kintaro would be inferior among the two howevs), and Reiko might not have a NRS profile like Tremor.

 

[SamanPatou]

The Xenomorph is totally fine to stay, it has its unique traits and enough story to justify its existence, even though it isn't canon.

I agree with the other ratings, including Reiko and other people like Hsu-Sao, who don't need NRS versions.

 

[Hellbeast]

The Xenomorph is totally fine to stay, it has its unique traits and enough story to justify its existence, even though it isn't canon.

Yeah I’d agree with him and Spawn remaining

I’m thinking we could rank characters like that as “At least 9-A, Likely High 8-C”?

I agree with the other ratings, including Reiko and other people like Hsu-Sao, who don't need NRS versions.

How dare you imply Hsu Hao is undeserving you godless heathen

But yeah the comics characters need their stuff nuked if we’re ignoring the tie ins (feels bad man).

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Yeah I’d agree with him and Spawn remaining

I’m thinking we could rank characters like that as “At least 9-A, Likely High 8-C”?

How dare you imply Hsu Hao is undeserving you godless heathen

But yeah the comics characters need their stuff nuked if we’re ignoring the tie ins (feels bad man).

Depends on who these DLC characters have fought. Say for example Kratos is canon and his rival is Shao Kahn, so we scale Kratos to that guy. Triborg is 9-A because he killed the Special Forces characters in his ending (you can hear their screams in the background). Xenomorph should be 9-A scaling to his host Baraka.

ow

 

[SamanPatou]

How dare you imply Hsu Hao is undeserving you godless heathen

He deserves only one thing.

Depends on who these DLC characters have fought. Say for example Kratos is canon and his rival is Shao Kahn, so we scale Kratos to that guy. Triborg is 9-A because he killed the Special Forces characters in his ending (you can hear their screams in the background). Xenomorph should be 9-A scaling to his host Baraka.

I agree with the method, though the Xenomorph kills Shinnok in his ending, so it could straight up be High 8-C. Same for Triborg.
This would be an outlier normally, but since these characters exist only in their own story, I don't see any problem with them killing Shinnok.

 

[Hellbeast]

Depends on who these DLC characters have fought. Say for example Kratos is canon and his rival is Shao Kahn, so we scale Kratos to that guy

I say at least because we also see him kill Cage but idk

I’m happy with a world where Freddy Krueger can fight Spider-Man

. Triborg is 9-A because he killed the Special Forces characters in his ending (you can hear their screams in the background)

Yeah that works

. Xenomorph should be 9-A scaling to his host Baraka.

Xeno actually takes out Shinnok and Kotal tho so it works

He deserves only one thing.


I agree with the method, though the Xenomorph kills Shinnok in his ending, so it could straight up be High 8-C.

Eh I felt the likely was safer plus he kills Kotal who has that rating (I also kinda want him to fight Fox Wolverine lmao)

Same for Triborg

I feel Borg should be 9-A since I can’t recall Shinnok’s death vein referenced in his ending

This would be an outlier normally, but since these characters exist only in their own story, I don't see any problem with them killing Shinnok.

Yeah I can see them scaling to the bosses with a likely if nothing else

High 8-C Predator is pog

 

[SamanPatou]

I feel Borg should be 9-A since I can’t recall Shinnok’s death vein referenced in his ending

The narrator mentions it, I linked the ending itself.

Yeah I can see them scaling to the bosses with a likely if nothing else

I don't think a likely is needed, they scale only to their own feats and nobody scales to them, they can easily be rated after the bosses they kill if it's mentioned in their ending.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

The narrator mentions it, I linked the ending itself.


I don't think a likely is needed, they scale only to their own feats and nobody scales to them, they can easily be rated after the bosses they kill if it's mentioned in their ending.

I agree with SamanPatou.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Wait, does that mean we get MK Predator back and does he also get that Second Key again for learning Magic after he kills Shinnok?

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Looks like it. He appears to have killed Sub-Zero, Fujin?, Cage, and Raiden before finally killing Shinnok, so he could be a high tier in his base key without the magic of the Amulet.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Actually, hold up. We should probably establish a limit to what kind of non-canon DLC characters we can include. We shouldn't violate the rules that removed those pages in the first place after all.

 

[SamanPatou]

I will soon finally carry out the revisions for non-canon videogame crossovers I was planning, but the major rules, which are also those that saved Soulcalibur Darth Vader are:

• The character must have a story, even if short
• They can be rated in a reliable way, either by their own feats or by scaling them to other characters
• They must be sufficiently different from their main version, and just having different statistics isn't enough, although it is something. They should also have different and or/additional abilities and powers. They could also have their own equipment, personality, experience and more.
• As they are self-contained in their own story, no canon character can scale to them.

Predator might stay, it doesn't even need a base key, as I believe the amulet would give it the additional abilities it needs to stay, on top of what he receives from his moveset and related variations.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

They can be rated in a reliable way, either by their own feats or by scaling them to other characters
As they are self-contained in their own story, no canon character can scale to them.

I don't get these two because they seem to contradict each other.

 

[SamanPatou]

I will word it better, but basically non-canon characters can scale to canon ones but not vice versa. Like, if Predator performs a 6-B feat and gets defeated by Sonya, she doesn't scale to it. But if a battle with Sonya is the only way to rate it, then it could scale to her.

 

[Antvasima]

I will soon finally carry out the revisions for non-canon videogame crossovers I was planning, but the major rules, which are also those that saved Soulcalibur Darth Vader are:

• The character must have a story, even if short
• They can be rated in a reliable way, either by their own feats or by scaling them to other characters
• They must be sufficiently different from their main version, and just having different statistics isn't enough, although it is something. They should also have different and or/additional abilities and powers. They could also have their own equipment, personality, experience and more.
• As they are self-contained in their own story, no canon character can scale to them.

That is correct afaIk, yes.

 

[Antvasima]

There is one apparent misunderstanding though. Canon characters not scaling from crossovers means that, for example, just because Superman and Thor fought each other during a Marvel/DC event, this does not mean that their regular in-continuity versions should scale from each other.

Hence, if Darth Vader appears in a Soul Calibur game, his regular Star Wars self should not scale from the SC characters, and vice versa.

 

[SamanPatou]

Totally, but what I mean that even non-canon characters in-verse shouldn't be used a way to scale canon characters in-verse.

Like, if we didn't have pages for Toei Dragon Ball, Goku shouldn't allowed to scale to characters that appear only in the movies, but vice versa they could scale to him.

The same here, characters like Predator, Triborg, the Alien etc. (regardless of them being crossovers or not) aren't canon and can't be used to rate the canon ones like Johnny Cage and Scorpion, but they could in turn be used to scale said non-canon characters.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, that makes sense.

 

[Hellbeast]

The narrator mentions it, I linked the ending itself.

Ah yeah then that works

As for Preds he should have one stat key imo BUT we can give him a tabber for after he gets the Amulet

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Ah yeah then that works

As for Preds he should have one stat key imo BUT we can give him a tabber for after he gets the Amulet

Kinda like how Soul Calibur Vader has an extra tabber for the Swords, right?

 

[Hellbeast]

Yes but without the higher part of the tiering

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

I updated Takeda's page. How should we deal with Tremor now that his appearance in the comics is possibly non-canon? Should he be High 8-C now based on his lore and ending?

 

[SamanPatou]

Yes, he can be treated like other dlcs, his ending and lore are fine.

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

Updated Kintaro and Tremor's pages. I'll leave the Xenomorph to you guys, but anyone editing its profile should only use powers and abilities shown in their own story and moveset. No scaling from the canon Xenomorphs. I'll probably handle Goro's profile soon.

 

[SamanPatou]

I can handle it.

What do I do with its powers? Do I split them into a tabber for each variation (plus one for the powers shared by all three), since they are supposed to be different types of Xenomorphs?

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I can handle it.

What do I do with its powers? Do I split them into a tabber for each variation (plus one for the powers shared by all three), since they are supposed to be different types of Xenomorphs?

I feel like we should mention that it can summon a Xenomorph Queen for one it's Fatalities which implies that it's stronger than it is at least to some extent.

 

[Hellbeast]

I updated Takeda's page. How should we deal with Tremor now that his appearance in the comics is possibly non-canon? Should he be High 8-C now based on his lore and ending?

Maybe with a note specifying his comics appearance should not be used for scaling

I feel like we should mention that it can summon a Xenomorph Queen for one it's Fatalities which implies that it's stronger than it is at least to some extent.

I mean maybe? I'd definitely just put it as summoning

What do I do with its powers? Do I split them into a tabber for each variation (plus one for the powers shared by all three), since they are supposed to be different types of Xenomorphs?

Tabbers might be a good idea, with an optional note asking users to specify which version they're using for debates (with an option for a comp?)

Also I just noticed Frost still has her comic feat of beating up Cassie

 

[SamanPatou]

I mean maybe? I'd definitely just put it as summoning

At most it can be called "High 8-C, Higher with Summons", as we don't know to what extent the queen is stronger than a drone.

Tabbers might be a good idea, with an optional note asking users to specify which version they're using for debates (with an option for a comp?)

I'll do that.

 

[Hellbeast]

At most it can be called "High 8-C, Higher with Summons", as we don't know to what extent the queen is stronger than a drone.

Sounds decent.

 

[SamanPatou]

The Xenomorph has longevity, telepathy, regen mid-low, resistance to cold and acid and weakness to fire and changes in temperature. These have most likely been inherited from its canon movie version, so I think they should be removed.
Also, inheriting Martial Arts from Baraka doesn't make sense, skill isn't transfered through DNA (unless you are Cell). The Xenomorph still has pure hand-to-hand skill through what it demonstrates in gameplay, but the explanation shouldn't be that it gained it from Baraka.
Its profile also says that it has inherited Energy Projection from Baraka, but none of its moves features Baraka's spark-like projectile, so it should be removed as well.

I can see resistance to acid being shared, but do we count characters not being hurt by their own acid as a resistance? I'm referring in general, isn't it about the same as poisonous animals and characters not dying by their own poison, while it's likely they would be affected by others?

Also, what do we do with its gender? We follow the canon version and say it is hermaphroditic, or is it better to just put an unknown?

 

[Ecstasy_Amphetamine]

The Xenomorph has longevity, telepathy, regen mid-low, resistance to cold and acid and weakness to fire and changes in temperature. These have most likely been inherited from its canon movie version, so I think they should be removed.

Also, inheriting Martial Arts from Baraka doesn't make sense, skill isn't transfered through DNA (unless you are Cell). The Xenomorph still has pure hand-to-hand skill through what it demonstrates in gameplay, but the explanation shouldn't be that it gained it from Baraka.
Its profile also says that it has inherited Energy Projection from Baraka, but none of its moves features Baraka's spark-like projectile, so it should be removed as well.

I can see resistance to acid being shared, but do we count characters not being hurt by their own acid as a resistance? I'm referring in general, isn't it about the same as poisonous animals and characters not dying by their own poison, while it's likely they would be affected by others?

Also, what do we do with its gender? We follow the canon version and say it is hermaphroditic, or is it better to just put an unknown?

Agree

It inherited Baraka's moves including the chop chop. Nothing in its profile implies that it was gained from his DNA, just that it got some of Baraka's moves by unknown means. How else would it have gotten his moves when it was literally born from him? No energy projection is fine though.

Resistance to acid is shared from its canon version so I can see it being removed.

Unknown is fine, it's probably not that important.

 

[SamanPatou]

It doesn't use Baraka's fighting style though, the only common thing is the way it uses the forearm blades, but does it count as having inherited martial arts from him? Most of its style is Alien's own.

 

[SamanPatou]

This is the draft of the reworked Xenomorph. On top of everything said above, I made more changes adding Possinly Dimensional Travel, Natural Weaponry and Pseudo Duplication and Power Mimicry (the last two for the Konjurer).

I also made some changes to the overall explanations, the intelligence section and the notable attacks section.