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Major Mario CRT: Mama mia, another one!?

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I think it's safe to apply what we already have, and the Low 2-C stuff separately.

So what exactly has been accepted as of now?
 
Everything besides infinite speed (due to a seperate thread), fate manipulation (which needs more support), and Low 2-C Culex which is overall still debatable. Everything else is currently accepted.
 
I'd still prefer Dino to come back before we change anything however.
 
Seeing as Mario can scale to Power Stars which have a 3-C feat, here's a proposal. Remove Mario's Power Star ap section. He already scales to Power Star users so there's no need to only scale to the lower end. He can keep the abilites that come with it, but the ap should apply to his base form. Opinions?
 
^ Last I heard the Minions will be getting upgrades in time. At least Building upgrades plus possibly town stuff.

I also feel their LS should be above Peak Human even with Goombas
 
^ They can also help push a large stone statue of Bowser, support the papercrafts, and even the weight of Bowser himself plus dozens of their own.
 
Bowsers Minions gives proper scaling to Koopas kids and I think Kamek tbh. It's like part of the story that Goombas and minions can stand in combat with them. Even win with proper leadership. Iirc, they fight all the koopa kids multiple times and kamek in the story and come out on top. Which it's canon to the story, and if happened multiple times, game mechanics is totally out of the picture. Albeit, a single or minion is obviously under the kids, this was groups of them. But they still seem to be in the same general tier.
 
I can see that but unfortunately the world is not ready for Tier 4 Goombas kicking the ass of Waddle Dees sans Bandana Dee.

Though tbf an average joe Goomba was a boss in SMBDS because it could grow in size, in Odyssey you could use regular minions to perform tasks normal Mario can do as well as use them to fight bosses and all Minion/enemies should be comparable to each other which makes it consistent that minions can defeat boss characters, and Goombas in Bowser's Special Attack in BiS can survive being blasted by his fire and falling on top of his enemies. Hell, Captain Goomba and Private Goomp are just regular Goombas that ascended ranks through training and spirit and at least Captain Goomba can also, along with the other Captains, actually physically harm Bowser (believe it giving him amnesia was even a plot point that's canon) as well as outmaneuver and push back the BFF and Fawful.

Hell, he's even playable in MP now and the other Minions were playable in MP as well, with Shy Guy in MP9 fighting an at least Large Planet-Star and likely MFTL+ Bowser, which shows that the minions are just as capable as everyone else if they apply themselves.

But people still think there's not enough direct feats because Goombas in general exist as a stepping stool and as such have tons of "anti-feats".
 
To be fair. What anti feats exactly? Mario pumbling through them makes sense considering he is supposed to be far above them.

This probably should be brought to a new thread if this discussion goes further since this here threads already almost filled.
 
Can we please stop derailing the thread with the Tier 4 fodder mooks proposals for the 55th time? You guys are making it harder for Dino to evaluate or getting anything done no offence. Focus what was proposed in the OP; which is mostly the Tier 4 upgrades or possibly merging base forms with Power Stars, ect.

We even have more than 400 posts already.
 
There are other staff members to evaluate, myself included. But I overall consider him the best at judging. It's best not to constantly push for things that have been discussed literally countless times and has sworn to never happen. Especially backwards scaling protagonists to every single mook in the verse. And yes, we got at least 5 clear cut Low 2-C feats, but they're still outliers for now or at least should be saved for another thread at this point.

So the main topic here should be the 4-A upgrades for protagonists based on Baby Bowser creating Pop up Book World. Possibly merging regular forms to Power Star enhancements, so possibly 3-C may be reasonable. Megabug becoming Tier 2. And the upgrades to Genius based on receiving doctorates as babies.
 
Again, scaling mooks to the protagonists is out of the questions. Regradless of who fought who in Bowser's Minion or whatever, that doesn't make them comparable or a weaker tier of the main cast. It's absolutely absurd to assume such since for the most part, they are treated as obstacles and not formidable adversaries. It's no different from the Kirby enemies where despite being able to fight the likes of Marx or Hyness, they are still treated way below the calibur of the main Kirby cast and thus only have their own feats to scale off from instead of powerscaling them to other characters. Whatever tier you wish to propose on these baddies, it has to be feats that they themselves achieved.

All Tier 2 stuff is also out, period. Most of them are either outliers or not even around the tier as the dialouge or proposal claims to begin with. And regardless if we include a possibly in the rating or not, we can't just casually scale the cast to the tier just because we want to. This will make the scaling out of whack and it will make people question the legitimacy or standards of the wiki, especially with how those feats happen in the first place.

Right now, the only plausible proposals are the 4-A, but only because of Odyssey and Yoshi's Story and the Intelligence upgrade. I suggest making another thread for Megabug since he seems the most plausible among the Tier 2 proposals but go into more detail about the reasons because I can ensure you that this is not enough and other members will agree. This is a relatively high tier which we can not fork over so casually unless its blatant, thus it's going to require the feedback of a few members.
 
Dino Ranger Black said:
And by ten, you mean three legit Low 2-C feats and the rest not being those feats at all but rather we are claiming them to be just because we are eagered to put our favorite characters in a high horse.
Click to expand...
5, possibly 6 is more accurate
 
I'll talk about the Low 2-C's later in a different thread for those who want to discuss it since I'm not too focused on it for now. But anyways, let me talk about the comment above.

You claim that the only legitamate 4-A feats come from Yoshi's Power Stars and Yoshi's Story, but keep in mind that Mario has fought Power Star users without him using it. King Bob-Omb has one while Mario doesn't. In Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2, he never uses them to my knowlegde. Power Moons scale due to being threated as similar power sources as Power Stars in which Mario fights several users of them without him ever using the Power Moons on himself but instead on the Odyssey only. Paper Mario, King Boo, and Shadow Mario's feats are still legitamate. Your only argument against them was that they're assumptions without further elaboration. Hell, I've proven as to why these aren't. Paper Mario's realm pops up as soon as he hits the ground. E. Gadd stated that King Boo created the mansion. And the doc above states as to why and how Jr. made them.
 
There's also Mario's new key, Bowser's rework, lifting strength, 2-B Star Rod, and Low 2-C have been accepted. There's no reason for me to make a seperate thread for the Megabug if people are okay with it. You say I need extra reasoning but you never say what exactly. Many members and a few mods are in agreement with it, there's no one against it. A new thread is redundant and slows down the pace. I've already got plans for a different thread, so I'd prefer to have what I have here settled first.
 
There's plenty of reasons of why. Only one staff member agrees with this and Low 2-C is a very high rating that we can't just rate characters casually. Megabug had his removed due to the lack of evidence and a mere paragraph that only covers the fact it has Time-Space abilities is not enough to warrant it, regardless of how many of the supporters of this universe agrees. If you are so sure that Megabug is Low 2-C and is fullproof, than making another thread providing more scans and in-depth should serve no problem, otherwise it's not happening, regardless of how much you wish to ignore it because it's not as blatant as you are claiming it to be.

E.Gadd also never claimed that Bowser Jr. created that realm at all. Let's stop making false claims just because you want to change their tiers so badly.

The Star Rod isn't 2-B, nor are the Star Spirits. They didn't create the Dream Depot nor the worlds within them and suggesting that they do as it conflicts with the very origin in the first place. It's a location where dreams ascend to everytime a person sleeps. Why would they be 2-B for the dreams created by sleeping beings and not them? Just because they created "fun-filled minigames" within them? That does not warrant a 2-B whatsoever.
 
Then say why those reasons are instead of just saying there are, simple as that. Megabug was still up for debate, you just gave up on it. Elaborate why my current evidence instead of just telling me to make a new thread for it so I can just resolve it here. You're aware that space-time manipulation wasn't my only reason, right? WoG stated that the world was corrupted and Beep-0 claiming they need to save the world. We know the Rabbids wasn't the reason for this corruption. Having space-time was supporting evidence. It was to prove that when they mean the world, it includes space and time. I didn't claim there was a lot of staff support for Low 2-C, that was reffering to the other things. Stop saying I need to make a new thread when we can just solve the issues here.

When did I ever say this? Did you even properly read what I said? "E.Gadd stated that King Boo created the mansio." Never did I say E.Gadd claimed Jr made these worlds. The reasoning as to how Jr made these worlds was that he creates all of the monsters and issues Mario has to deal with. In one of the episodes, a Pianta says that a new world suddenly appeared, in which Bowser Jr should likely be the reason due to him always appearing in these worlds before Mario, having paint at the entrances, and having a child-like theme which is extra evidence. This was all in the Doc, I really shouldn't have to say it here. And please stop trying to imply I desperately want to change their tiers by making false claims.

The origin of the Dream Depot is unknown, we don't even know who made it in the first place. But due to the Star Spirits not only being the guardians for it, but also hinting at creating the dreams as well, we shouldn't just play it off.

Plus my other proposals are being ignored.
 
I didn't answer them because I don't have an issue with them. The Tier 2 stuff, Paper Mario feat, Shadow Mario are the real problems of the matter because they are ridiculously flawed and somewhat invalid. Paper Mario just simply knocked them with the hammer and they warped into another location. Without proper context or any direct confirmation, it's more logical to believe that they were teleported, not that he created it. However, Shadow Mario is more convincing in comparison only due to The Secret of the Dirty Lake, particularly how it was lead into it and what the Pinta said during the mission:

"You know the Cliff Spring Cave on the far end of the lake? Some nasty ooze came spilling out of it with no warning at all! Now, our beautiful lake is contaminated. It's so yucky!"

Ask for Megabug, you either make a more detailed explaination for the Low 2-C or it stays the way it is. This a high tier and not a blatant one at that. If you don't have time, then make one when you do. Simple as that. Providing links, scans, and a more detailed explaination should serve no issue if you are so sure to claim otherwise on its current tier. And scaling the cast to these feats will cause the scaling to be out of whack. Don't tell me to stop when many other people weren't convince about its rating in the first place, hence the downgrade. Otherwise, its Unknown status remains.

Just because how the Dream Depot was created remains unknown, doesn't imply the Star Spirits created the dreams nor was it ever hinted such.. Again, it conflicts with the very origin in the first place. It's a location where dreams ascend to everytime a person sleeps. Why would the Star Spirits be 2-B for the dreams created by sleeping beings and not them? Just because they created "fun-filled minigames" within them? That does not warrant a 2-B whatsoever.
 
I don't think sammer's kingdom should be low 2-C. I could possibly see resistance to void manip if mario doesn't already have it?
 
Power Stars aren't Low 2-C and mario already has a separate key to them

and they're not just outliers, they're also not Low 2-C in the first place
 
3 of the 4-A feats are scaling to Power Stars, and Power Stars arer Low 2-C cause it made Tick Tock Clock which is infinite in size, and it also creates Time because of the ancient Pyramid world

Black Jewel and the Grand Star users are already Low 2-C, Pretty much everyone agrees that Megabug is Low 2-C, and Culex has lots of evidence to be Low 2-C
 
and mario beating Low 2-C grand star bowser is an outlier.

Low 2-C megabug is from a chain reaction that doesn't scale to anyone

if the 4-A feats scale only to power stars, base mario shouldn't have them.
 
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