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Possibly Low 2-C is fine
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Major Mario CRT: Mama mia, another one!?
- Thread starter DatOneWeeb
- Start date
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- Tags
- bowser luigi mario mario bros
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How many 4-A feats are there?
Eden_Warlock99
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6, possibly 7
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I also think the star spirits which mario has should have 2-B power nullification via star beam and possibly peach beam which negates the entirety of the star rods invulnerability and powers
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Sorry for the late reply, everyone. I meant to do so yesterday but I was pretty tired. Expect some typos and grammer errors in this.
First of all, the 4-A related feats: Yoshi creating Power Stars in Odyessy is pretty much the only legitimate feat. Everything else relies too much on speculation. There's no proof that Shadow nor Paper Mario have created those worlds. We shouldn't assume such without strong evidence. Sure, the backgrounds look painted but so is Painted Pipeworks from NSMBU but it's never stated Bowser Jr. painted that. The Yoshi Story feat seems alot more plausible, however, not with the proof you provided. That background seems to be purely aestethic with the shadow in some of those stars making it easy to regard them as such. The battle with Cloudjin seems alot more plausible as there are actual clouds, stars, and a moon within the storybook world.
The 2-B related stuff is a big NO. The Star Spirits only guards the Dream Depot, they did not create it nor maintain it. And existing since the beginning of time doesn't prove anything. Nothing even implies them creating it either. Nothing and no one is getting scaled from this.
The Low 2-C stuff is out of the question too. Culex's support is relatively weak as it isn't a solid description of him being around that tier. However, Megabug seem to have some supportive evidence. I suggest making a thread solely focusing on this character, being more elaborative while providing the scans and support for the proposal of the tier since he seems to be the most plausible. That being said, we can't provide a possibly Low 2-C for the character stats. As far as I'm concern, there's only one Low 2-C feat and it's considered an outlier, plus it will make it difficult to scale.
I heard the speed feats related to timeless voids are being revised, so you may want to comment there just to make sure it's up to the standards of the wiki.
Finally, the intelligence upgrade. It's fine for all those who became doctors but I'm not too sure if that warrants a Genuis level of intelligence. I always thought being Gifted is sufficient.
First of all, the 4-A related feats: Yoshi creating Power Stars in Odyessy is pretty much the only legitimate feat. Everything else relies too much on speculation. There's no proof that Shadow nor Paper Mario have created those worlds. We shouldn't assume such without strong evidence. Sure, the backgrounds look painted but so is Painted Pipeworks from NSMBU but it's never stated Bowser Jr. painted that. The Yoshi Story feat seems alot more plausible, however, not with the proof you provided. That background seems to be purely aestethic with the shadow in some of those stars making it easy to regard them as such. The battle with Cloudjin seems alot more plausible as there are actual clouds, stars, and a moon within the storybook world.
The 2-B related stuff is a big NO. The Star Spirits only guards the Dream Depot, they did not create it nor maintain it. And existing since the beginning of time doesn't prove anything. Nothing even implies them creating it either. Nothing and no one is getting scaled from this.
The Low 2-C stuff is out of the question too. Culex's support is relatively weak as it isn't a solid description of him being around that tier. However, Megabug seem to have some supportive evidence. I suggest making a thread solely focusing on this character, being more elaborative while providing the scans and support for the proposal of the tier since he seems to be the most plausible. That being said, we can't provide a possibly Low 2-C for the character stats. As far as I'm concern, there's only one Low 2-C feat and it's considered an outlier, plus it will make it difficult to scale.
I heard the speed feats related to timeless voids are being revised, so you may want to comment there just to make sure it's up to the standards of the wiki.
Finally, the intelligence upgrade. It's fine for all those who became doctors but I'm not too sure if that warrants a Genuis level of intelligence. I always thought being Gifted is sufficient.
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DRB replied
It's time
It's time
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But the thing is...who created the dream depot? That's what I want to find out
Eden_Warlock99
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What about the King Boo feat? And there's at least 3 legitimate feats if you think Yoshi creating power stars, because if that one is legitimate then Mario beating Power Star and Power moons users is also legitimate.
And there's more Low 2-C feats, there's two characters that we already rank as Low 2-C (powered up Bowser and diamond evil guy) who can't kill Mario and Wario,And the two Low 2-Cs lose in the end, plus there's the megabug stuff and Bowser destroying every dream in dream Depot one by one
And there's more Low 2-C feats, there's two characters that we already rank as Low 2-C (powered up Bowser and diamond evil guy) who can't kill Mario and Wario,And the two Low 2-Cs lose in the end, plus there's the megabug stuff and Bowser destroying every dream in dream Depot one by one
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But wasn't Mario capable of, at one point, fight and defeat Bowser when he had the power of a Grand Star? Wouldn't that also support some kind of Low 2-C rating?
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I agree with Dino; however, I don't think we should knit pick the starry skies in Yoshi's story. They're literally described as parallel worlds and it's similar to Wind Fish's feat. And I do think that Mario's base forms being comparable to the Power Stars in general is reasonable for multiple reasons.
I agree with Dino regarding all Tier 2 stuff and that the Infinite speed stuff should be scrapped given the Timeless void standards. Intelligence is an upgrade however. Getting a doctor's degree as a baby is still an excellent intelligence feat.
I agree with Dino regarding all Tier 2 stuff and that the Infinite speed stuff should be scrapped given the Timeless void standards. Intelligence is an upgrade however. Getting a doctor's degree as a baby is still an excellent intelligence feat.
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This is from the Mario discussion thread, which includes the list of Low 2-C feats for the cast (there's also the Culex statements which you addressed and a possible feat for Wart with Subcon being erased after his death in BS Super Mario USA, but I've never played it so take that with a grain of salt).DatOneWeeb said:
This'd be easier if the Low 2-C stuff was its own CRT or put in a blog first...
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The first one seems like an unknown method, I don't think we should use that. Mouser's statement is far too flowery to be taken literally. The rest are legit feats, but are all considered outliers.
Eden_Warlock99
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I don't think Bowser surviving the black hole could be used,cause I think it was confirmed that Rosalina protected him
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,191
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I think there's enough Low 2-C feats for a "possibly Low 2-C" and if Dino is Right, there's more Low 2-C feats then there are 4-A
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- Thread starter
- #376
4-A: What? How does this rely on speculation? Wiggler claims to be able to see the stars at night, implying there is a day and night system at Tiny Huge Island. Hell, we can even see the sun in certain stages. Not sure why this isn't a 4-A feat. Paper Mario did create them, this isn't speculation nor an assumption. As soon as they slam the floor with the hammer, the screen flips like a paper and there goes the background. This is pretty blantant, especially when Paper Mario's abilites in the game revovle more around paper. That's a false equivalence, the difference between those levels is that NSBU has no relation to Browser Jr at all, and was just a casual level. Not only that, but we are saying he used the Magic Paintbrush to create these realms, in which NSBU doesn't have. Not sure what your point is. You are aware the point of this games design is to look like a book? This is why they look like this, the entire game looks like this for aesthetic. It's a design choice. The Power Moons scale to Power Stars as stated above to be being the same power source, and King Boo was stated to create the entire mansion. Overall you gave very little reasoning.
Star Spirits: You read what I said, yes? It's literally stated that they created fun-filled games, which refers to the stages. The stages are dreams. You didn't argue at all what I said and only argued against arguments I never used.
Culex/MegaBug: I need more arguments than just "the evidence is weak and doesn't support that tier" for Culex. I see no purpose on making a seperate thread for the MegaBug. If people are okay with it and think the evidence is good without opposing arguments, a seperate thread seems redundant.
Intelligence: I wasn't saying being a doctor should make him genius, but it should be supporting evidence since he did this as a baby and has so much other knowledge. It was also stated by Mario himself to create these pills on his own in the NES game. And in Dr. Mario 64, he also created pills that were able to cure the flu almost instantly when taking the medicine. Others should be gifted.
We still have Shiny Paper Mario's tabber, Bowser's rework, Pre-Stellar lighting strength, and fate manipulation left.
Star Spirits: You read what I said, yes? It's literally stated that they created fun-filled games, which refers to the stages. The stages are dreams. You didn't argue at all what I said and only argued against arguments I never used.
Culex/MegaBug: I need more arguments than just "the evidence is weak and doesn't support that tier" for Culex. I see no purpose on making a seperate thread for the MegaBug. If people are okay with it and think the evidence is good without opposing arguments, a seperate thread seems redundant.
Intelligence: I wasn't saying being a doctor should make him genius, but it should be supporting evidence since he did this as a baby and has so much other knowledge. It was also stated by Mario himself to create these pills on his own in the NES game. And in Dr. Mario 64, he also created pills that were able to cure the flu almost instantly when taking the medicine. Others should be gifted.
We still have Shiny Paper Mario's tabber, Bowser's rework, Pre-Stellar lighting strength, and fate manipulation left.
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- Thread starter
- #377
Also, for Low 2-C. To get added on to it, we could put additional 2 Low 2-C feats if accepted. I still disagree with Mouser being flowery langauge. Still overall neutral.
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Daisy has beaten Wario, but to be fair, Peach was helping her. Though, to be counter-fair, Waluigi was helping Wario.GyroNutz said:
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I trust Dino's sense of judgement regarding Mario.
However, I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.
However, I have to unsubscribe from this thread due to time constraints. You can notify me later via my message wall if you need my help after you have reached a conclusion.
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GyroNutz said:
This is from the Mario discussion thread, which includes the list of Low 2-C feats for the cast (there's also the Culex statements which you addressed and a possible feat for Wart with Subcon being erased after his death in BS Super Mario USA, but I've never played it so take that with a grain of salt).
This'd be easier if the Low 2-C stuff was its own CRT or put in a blog first...
I made this in a few minutes, so some of it is noticeably hasty.
This is from the Mario discussion thread, which includes the list of Low 2-C feats for the cast (there's also the Culex statements which you addressed and a possible feat for Wart with Subcon being erased after his death in BS Super Mario USA, but I've never played it so take that with a grain of salt).
This'd be easier if the Low 2-C stuff was its own CRT or put in a blog first...
I made this in a few minutes, so some of it is noticeably hasty.
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Gotta spread the word.
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I looked over the blog, in which at least 5 of those feats are legit. Although, that doesn't quite mean they're not outliers.
And people are constantly bringing up Mouser destroying "Sweet Dreams." If he actually did it, why didn't one bomb destroy all of Subcon the moment it detonated? It doesn't mean he's a casual Dream Dimension buster, it's just a figurative speech about "Putting people to sleep."
And people are constantly bringing up Mouser destroying "Sweet Dreams." If he actually did it, why didn't one bomb destroy all of Subcon the moment it detonated? It doesn't mean he's a casual Dream Dimension buster, it's just a figurative speech about "Putting people to sleep."
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- Thread starter
- #384
Because the bomb destroying Subcon would've made the game unplayable. It's the same thing as asking why doesn't a planet level character destroy the planet when hitting the ground. It was also stated in a Japanese manual that he destroys good dreams.
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I know that AP Vs DC is a thing, but the fact that one of its justifications assumes it can destroy Universes; which Dream Worlds are indeed Universes. But still, if it's never actually demonstrated or has any major effects to the cosmology in any shape or form, I would not use it as supporting evidence.
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- Thread starter
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It's a statement that he can destroy universes essentially. The only actual argument against it is "why isn't the dream poofed when using his bombs?" Refer back to my other statement. It's the equivalent of asking why, let's say, Goku doesn't destroy the planet when he shoots the ground despite being able to easily do this. The game wouldn't be playable if this happened.
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The difference is that Goku has massive amounts of Ki Control where he has full control over his energy. I don't think dropping bombs is something that can be compared to controlled energy manipulation. And I know the game wouldn't be playable, but it still feels too out of place for the first boss to be Universal based on a vague statement rather than a concrete feat.
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- Thread starter
- #388
Okay, how about say, Majin Buu. My same point, but this character doesn't care for Earth. Hell, I don't even need to use DBZ as an example, this is very standard in fiction.
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Yes, I know a lot of fictional stories in general; but Dragon Ball was an especially bad example. Doomsday killing 4-B characters without destroying a single city would have been a better argument given the context. But still, if this was a bomb meant to detonate and bust the Universe but barely does much damage to the floor. That kind of defeats the purpose.
Eden_Warlock99
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How can they be Outliers if the're pretty much as consistent as the 4-A feats?
Anomalous_N_I_W_D_E
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They are "vauge." At best apparently, Though as much as I like seeing a Low 2-C Mario Co. You have to slightly admit he can be a tad too varying.Adem Warlock69 said:
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High 4-C to 4-A isn't too crazy of a gap and it's consistent with regular power stars and lumas having billions of feats ranging from 5-B to 3-C. Anything higher than galaxy level and especially Tier 2 is often very power up dependent.
Eden_Warlock99
She/Her- 10,191
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Well the Power Stars have a low 2-C feat of their own and Lumas shouldn't really scale to the Star children, and the Only one with a power up was Bowser using the Grand Star, which wasn't that big of an amp as Mario could still keep up with him and beat him, so it isn't Star Rod or Dreamy level Power up
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If it's the combination of all Lumas then yes. The sacrifice of the lumas amounted to the creation of a new timeline.
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Yeah, I forgot to put the Lumas and Rosalina feats in the blog. Mario and them do indeed scale to Rosalina on several occasions. She thought that Mario was the only one who could beat Bowser, for example, and she is also relative to the other cast in the games like Mario Party. In Mario Tennis Aces, Mario is explicitly also the strongest tennis player, and in the Mario Party games, other characters aside from Rosalina are often said to be the strongest of the cast. As for their feats, the Lumas tanked the resetting of the timeline as they visually weren't shielded by Rosalina. Mario is obviously relative to them.
And also, I don't see why these feats should be considered outliers when any of their tier 4/3 feats literally aren't anti-feats. Those feats existing aren't evidence to contradict that the characters are tier 2.
And also, I don't see why these feats should be considered outliers when any of their tier 4/3 feats literally aren't anti-feats. Those feats existing aren't evidence to contradict that the characters are tier 2.
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Considering it took an entire race of Lumas, I don't think it would inherently scale to the AP of a single Luma. Especially considering Low 2-C can't be properly divided combined the fact that those Lumas were "Sacrificed." And actually, I think it's better said that everyone who wasn't shielded got revived with the Universe resetted. Though, the Universe was resetted a 2nd time in Galaxy 2.
Also, let's focus on other proposals before tackling bigger stuff because we already have too many posts now.
Also, let's focus on other proposals before tackling bigger stuff because we already have too many posts now.
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- Thread starter
- #398
Okay, we're at 400 comments now. What's left to be discussed at this point? I'd rather have what I have listed finished first, then we can focus on Low 2-C.
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Yea time to finish this ctr once and for all
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Even restoring a "small part" of a space time continuum is Low 2-C though.
As for stuff that needs to be discussed, the infinite speed for hearts users will probably be dropped with the timeless void revisions pretty much having been passed. Fate manipulation could do with some more support before being passed/discussion if it should not.
As for stuff that needs to be discussed, the infinite speed for hearts users will probably be dropped with the timeless void revisions pretty much having been passed. Fate manipulation could do with some more support before being passed/discussion if it should not.
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