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Maitreya’s 2024 Profile Revisions: Version Marvel’s Spider-Man 2!!

Golden_Void said:
Anywho, following up on this. Symbiotes have enhanced vision, as Peter can see Miles while invisible.
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I have this listed as extrasensory perception on the profile.
Golden_Void said:
Symbiotes have instinctive reactions; based on the fact that Peter was and claimed to be sleeping during the night, the hunters raided May's house, and the Queensboro tunnel was destroyed. He also auto-dodged a hunter and stated, "That wasn't me."
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Have these on the profiles too. Pretty sure I used Venom taking over Peter’s body when he was asleep as justification.
Golden_Void said:
Symbiote has shapeshifting since it can turn into various suits and a tuxedo.
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I put this as “body control” for Venom’s shapeshifting his tendrils in different kinds of ways but shapeshifting is also a good thing to add too.
Golden_Void said:
Peter should have a stronger rating after touching the meteorite. Peter, after touching the meteorite, immediately became more evolved as a symbiote, which increases strength as the bond strengthens. As a result, Peter was stronger than he was when he fought Lizard. This doesn't apply to Venom - he was 100% evolved and nothing happened when joining the meteorite halves. He would probably have a stronger rating with the full meteorite - given he was morphing the entire city.
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Fair and valid.
Golden_Void said:
"Biological Manipulation & Disease Manipulation (The symbiote was capable of curing Harry of his genetic condition once bonded to him.)"
Venom isn't manipulating his disease, and the fact that Harry still has it after losing the suit means this ability is healing instead. Might have mentioned this before though.
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Peter mentions that the symbiote “completely eradicates any trace of Harry’s disease.” So it seems like symbiotes are resistant to disease manipulation since venom eradicates diseases while wearing the symbiote.
Golden_Void said:
Illusion creation obviously
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Yeah I could add that, nice catch.
Golden_Void said:
That's all I feel like looking for rn. Black Cat's profile should have portal creation and planetary range with the Wand of Watoomb.
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Fair.
 
Golden_Void said:
Symbiotes have instinctive reactions; based on the fact that Peter was and claimed to be sleeping during the night, the hunters raided May's house, and the Queensboro tunnel was destroyed. He also auto-dodged a hunter and stated, "That wasn't me."
Click to expand...
Would ya really call it instinctive actions considering the Symbiote is still sentient and moving of its own accord, it wouldn't really need to be instinctive action just because Peter isn't doing it since they symbiote is actively moving of its own will and is actively shown to be influencing Peter.
 
Maitreya12 said:
I have this listed as extrasensory perception on the profile.
Click to expand...
This would be more enhanced vision, given that extrasensory perception is stated to not be necessarily like eyesight.
Maitreya12 said:
Have these on the profiles too. Pretty sure I used Venom taking over Peter’s body when he was asleep as justification.
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Dalesean027 said:
Would ya really call it instinctive actions considering the Symbiote is still sentient and moving of its own accord, it wouldn't really need to be instinctive action just because Peter isn't doing it since they symbiote is actively moving of its own will and is actively shown to be influencing Peter.
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To answer the question above, they already have multiple selves and instinctive reactions. But unless we're saying the entire symbiote is one giant eye, an attack from behind should qualify it for instinctive reactions. Speaking of which, Harry's instinctive reaction link should be the same as Venom's precognition link. Maybe there's other examples but I'm tired rn

Maitreya12 said:
Peter mentions that the symbiote “completely eradicates any trace of Harry’s disease.” So it seems like symbiotes are resistant to disease manipulation since venom eradicates diseases while wearing the symbiote.
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Which is why I think it would be active healing. Harry shouldn't be able to get sick again if the disease was truly eradicated, and given the fact that it took until his 20s to get as bad as it was, it wouldn't make sense that he accelerated 20 years of disease the moment he lost the suit. Also Peter made this statement through observation, not any type of scientific evidence.
 
Golden_Void said:
This would be more enhanced vision, given that extrasensory perception is stated to not be necessarily like eyesight.
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Oh I get to yeah, makes sense. Symbiotes might still keep extra sensory perception though due to their ability to detect sound and high frequencies, while enhanced vision would be for detecting Miles while invisible.
Golden_Void said:
Which is why I think it would be active healing. Harry shouldn't be able to get sick again if the disease was truly eradicated, and given the fact that it took until his 20s to get as bad as it was, it wouldn't make sense that he accelerated 20 years of disease the moment he lost the suit. Also Peter made this statement through observation, not any type of scientific evidence.
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I think there’s some confusion here since I put disease manipulation as what Venom and symbiotes resist, not as a power they have. So like you said if someone was to give Pete or Harry a disease somehow in a vs battle, Venom could actively heal it to resist the disease manipulation. Peter should also be a good reliable source because he is a super genius after all.
 
Maitreya12 said:
Oh I get to yeah, makes sense. Symbiotes might still keep extra sensory perception though due to their ability to detect sound and high frequencies, while enhanced vision would be for detecting Miles while invisible.

I think there’s some confusion here since I put disease manipulation as what Venom and symbiotes resist, not as a power they have. So like you said if someone was to give Pete or Harry a disease somehow in a vs battle, Venom could actively heal it to resist the disease manipulation. Peter should also be a good reliable source because he is a super genius after all.
Click to expand...
Agreed with this, but the last part would be an appeal to authority fallacy.
 
Maverick_Zero_X said:
Agree with this chain.
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I forgot Peter evolved via touching the meteorite. So it would be Black Suit Peter < Symbiote Suit Peter (who Miles fought). Black Suit should be stronger than Agent Harry by virtue of Peter being superhuman, and Harry beat Kraven's ass tbh with close to no real combat experience. Miles fighting meteorite Peter should put him above his base black suit, along with the other reasons posted in the original scaling comment.

So then the scaling chains would be revised as:

1. Mid Miles

Base Peter < Li < Miles (1st awakening) < Kraven <= Agent Venom < Black Suit Peter < Miles (2nd Awakening) <= Symbiote Suit Peter = AV Spiderman < Venom

2. Based Miles accepted!!

Base Peter < Li < Miles (1st awakening) <= Kraven <= Agent Venom < Black Suit Peter < Symbiote Suit Peter <= Miles (2nd awakening, can keep up with Anti-Venom Peter and fight Venom without completely relying on zappy pops) = AV Spiderman < Venom

----
Getting to Kraven, the scaling should be obvious. At Kraven, Harry already beat up Kraven, and he's weaker than Black Suit Peter, who should be weaker than Miles, who came back and one-shot Kraven and fought Symbiote Suit Peter, who is > Black Suit, who is relative to some degree to his Anti-Venom form, all of which is below Venom.
 
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Maverick_Zero_X said:
Agree with this chain.
Click to expand...
Golden_Void said:
I forgot Peter evolved via touching the meteorite. So it would be Black Suit Peter < Symbiote Suit Peter (who Miles fought). Black Suit should be stronger than Agent Harry by virtue of Peter being superhuman, and Harry beat Kraven's ass tbh with close to no real combat experience. Miles fighting meteorite Peter should put him above his base black suit, along with the other reasons posted in the original scaling comment.

So then the scaling chains would be revised as:

1. Mid Miles

Base Peter < Li < Miles (1st awakening) < Kraven <= Agent Venom < Black Suit Peter < Miles (2nd Awakening) <= Symbiote Suit Peter <= AV Spiderman < Venom

2. Based Miles

Base Peter < Li < Miles (1st awakening) <= Kraven <= Agent Venom < Black Suit Peter < Symbiote Suit Peter < Miles (2nd awakening, can keep up with Anti-Venom Peter and fight Venom without completely relying on zappy pops) <= AV Spiderman < Venom

----
Getting to Kraven, the scaling should be obvious. At Kraven, Harry already beat up Kraven, and he's weaker than Black Suit Peter, who should be weaker than Miles, who came back and one-shot Kraven and fought Symbiote Suit Peter, who is > Black Suit, who is relative to some degree to his Anti-Venom form, all of which is below Venom.
Click to expand...
I also revised my own scaling chain based on the input and arguments made

Mine would be revised as:
Li=<Peter<Miles (first awakening)=<Kraven< Miles (second awakening)=<Agent Venom<Black Suit Peter(can dominate the Lizard in a fight, beat Kraven and his whole Hunter base, etc)=Anti-Venom Peter<Venom.

I feel this is a straightforward scaling chain that is consistent and obvious with the showings and feats in the game. With the hunters in the game verbatim stating that Miles is inferior to black suit Spider-Man, Kraven being able to beat Miles and the fact that Li who is proven to be relative to Miles outright says that "there is no escape, he's tried" in regards to Kraven and his base while meanwhile black suit Spider-Man is able to take on and decimate this entire hunter base and Kraven all while holding back. That along with Peter having generally superior showings to Miles against the Lizard, Kraven, and against Venom himself lead to the conclusion that Miles should be weaker than Black suit Spider-Man and more comparable with the likes of Kraven. There is also no indication that Peter got any stronger with the Anti-Venom suit, he just says it's the same power, so there shouldn't be a higher rating for it either on the scaling chain.

I've also updated the profiles, especially Kraven's.
 
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Maitreya12 said:
Mine would be revised as:
Li=<Peter<Miles>=<Kraven(Interchangeable, but Hunters and Kraven Miles nor Li are the target they are really after).<Agent Venom<Black Suit Peter(can dominate the Lizard in a fight, beat Kraven and his whole Hunter base, etc)=Anti-Venom Peter<Venom.

I feel this is a straightforward scaling chain that is consistent and obvious with the showings and feats in the game. With the hunters in the game verbatim stating that Miles is inferior to black suit Spider-Man, Kraven being able to beat Miles and the fact that Li who is proven to be relative to Miles outright says that "there is no escape, he's tried" in regards to Kraven and his base while meanwhile black suit Spider-Man is able to take on and decimate this entire hunter base and Kraven all while holding back. That along with Peter having generally superior showings to Miles against the Lizard, Kraven, and against Venom himself lead to the conclusion that Miles should be weaker than Black suit Spider-Man and more comparable with the likes of Kraven. There is also no indication that Peter got any stronger with the Anti-Venom suit, he just says it's the same power, so there shouldn't be a higher rating for it either on the scaling chain.

I've also updated the profiles, especially Kraven's.
Click to expand...
I can't agree with your placement for Li for a few simple reasons.

1. It assumes that the same Li Peter fought is at the same level he was when he fought Miles.

2. When Peter fights the symbiotes after losing his suit, he says something along the lines of "kinda miss having that symbiote strength" which emphasizes their raw strength. Peter got dogpiled by a bunch of these guys, and Li neg-diffed them, keeping them at bay with an energy field they weren't breaking through. You can say they have a weakness to his power, but weaknesses only really apply here with a close power gap, which only further emphasizes Li's power.

3. Peter got stronger after having Li's power added to him. He says he feels like the voices are gone, but the power is still there (which, now that I think about it, makes it directly equal to his Symbiote Suit form; agreed on that.) He only had a fraction of the symbiote left, and all of Li's power made up the difference. By that estimation, Li can't possibly be anywhere close to base Peter.

Your position of Miles is also weird, especially with the ">=<" thing. The majority, along with myself, agree that having a two-key Miles is the best approach regarding his scaling.
 
Golden_Void said:
I can't agree with your placement for Li for a few simple reasons.

1. It assumes that the same Li Peter fought is at the same level he was when he fought Miles.

2. When Peter fights the symbiotes after losing his suit, he says something along the lines of "kinda miss having that symbiote strength" which emphasizes their raw strength. Peter got dogpiled by a bunch of these guys, and Li neg-diffed them, keeping them at bay with an energy field they weren't breaking through. You can say they have a weakness to his power, but weaknesses only really apply here with a close power gap, which only further emphasizes Li's power.

3. Peter got stronger after having Li's power added to him. He says he feels like the voices are gone, but the power is still there (which, now that I think about it, makes it directly equal to his Symbiote Suit form; agreed on that.) He only had a fraction of the symbiote left, and all of Li's power made up the difference. By that estimation, Li can't possibly be anywhere close to base Peter.

Your position of Miles is also weird, especially with the ">=<" thing. The majority, along with myself, agree that having a two-key Miles is the best approach regarding his scaling.
Click to expand...
To briefly go over why I disagree with this interpretation:

Li powers work on his anger and is fueled by it, something he was feeling a great deal more of last game than this. Which is also shown by how his source of power is visibly damaged now compared to before. Peter was able to beat an enraged Li on two separate occasions, one of which he was heavily injured and exhausted in, all while holding back.

Li getting some kind of substantial strength increase despite being held in a super max prison, his whole personality largely calming down which go against how his powers operate, and those very same powers showing clear and visible signs of deterioration doesn’t particularly make sense to me nor did I think it’s consistent with how his powers work or his general personality now. (Like why would he be so intensely training in prison when he regrets his actions and is trying to atone for his sins. Not exactly a ‘training to get stronger mindset’).

I also don’t see why Li needs a close power gap for his weakness to work on the symbiotes. You don’t need a certain power level or even to be close in level for you to severely harm the symbiotes with just some sound.

Li also makes a comment about how it’s impossible to escape Kraven’s hunter base but black suit Peter was able to take down that same base and Kraven with relative ease I’d say. By this very claim Li would be more in line with Peter’s base strength rather than being closer to him with the black suit on.

Reminder also that Miles was there giving power too, so it wasn’t just Li. He wasn’t able to do it on his own even when it drained him of all of his power. Also Peter was in the midst of being possessed by the venom symbiote when Li and Miles went in. All Li did was turn Venom into Anti-Venom. That’s it, there doesn’t much more that needs to be said about that. He didn’t get stronger because of it, he was just the same as the regular symbiote but without the downsides.

I can agree with two key Miles thing in regards to his Venom powers evolving though.
 
Maitreya12 said:
To briefly go over why I disagree with this interpretation:

Li powers work on his anger and is fueled by it, something he was feeling a great deal more of last game than this. Which is also shown by how his source of power is visibly damaged now compared to before. Peter was able to beat an enraged Li on two separate occasions, one of which he was heavily injured and exhausted in, all while holding back.

Li getting some kind of substantial strength increase despite being held in a super max prison, his whole personality largely calming down which go against how his powers operate, and those very same powers showing clear and visible signs of deterioration doesn’t particularly make sense to me nor did I think it’s consistent with how his powers work or his general personality now. (Like why would he be so intensely training in prison when he regrets his actions and is trying to atone for his sins. Not exactly a ‘training to get stronger mindset’).
Click to expand...
His powers don't work on anger; it works because he's genetically modified. All anger does it makes it stronger. But there's 0 evidence to suggest that he can only get stronger if he's angry. And there's also 0 evidence to suggest that he was never angry since he was imprisoned. Because since we know that anger is a power boost, that means that Li wouldn't need to do anything physical to get stronger. And since we also know that Miles's venom is consistently above Peter's physicals, there's no way that's the same man Peter fought.
Maitreya12 said:
I also don’t see why Li needs a close power gap for his weakness to work on the symbiotes. You don’t need a certain power level or even to be close in level for you to severely harm the symbiotes with just some sound.
Click to expand...
Sound is their actual vulnerability; it isn't comparable to anything else that has worked on them. Venom was shrugging off Anti-Venom's touch, which I linked somewhere in here. He only got the suit off of Harry because he was fighting off Venom's bond and severely weakening. Symbiote Suit Peter couldn't even touch Li, and he wasn't using any of the crazy shields he employed against Miles. Venom being resistant to AV's effects has a direct relationship with strength levels, given that fodder symbiotes are instantly killed, and the symbiote behemoth still takes effort to kill.
Maitreya12 said:
Li also makes a comment about how it’s impossible to escape Kraven’s hunter base but black suit Peter was able to take down that same base and Kraven with relative ease I’d say. By this very claim Li would be more in line with Peter’s base strength rather than being closer to him with the black suit on.
Click to expand...
This is speculative. The reason can just as easily be that Kraven is there. Li had his own enhanced goons, and they raided Oscorp by themselves. I don't see how large numbers of fodder would be an issue for someone with massive AoE attacks, a ghost mech, and mind hax. There's also nothing to suggest that they're all enhanced like Kraven is, even with the shield bearers who fought the black suit.
Maitreya12 said:
Reminder also that Miles was there giving power too, so it wasn’t just Li. He wasn’t able to do it on his own even when it drained him of all of his power. Also Peter was in the midst of being possessed by the venom symbiote when Li and Miles went in. All Li did was turn Venom into Anti-Venom. That’s it, there doesn’t much more that needs to be said about that. He didn’t get stronger because of it, he was just the same as the regular symbiote but without the downsides.

I can agree with two key Miles thing in regards to his Venom powers evolving though.
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This just means that 100% of Li is less than some unknown portion of Miles. It wouldn't make sense for Peter to be as strong as he was with a fraction of what he had left. But let's say the tendrils that swarmed him on the ground are what gave him the symbiote back. It still took their combined power to break that hold. And Li's power was added to Peter's, which is why he has the abilities that he does. "Anti" is a meaning of negative.
 
Golden_Void said:
I forgot Peter evolved via touching the meteorite. So it would be Black Suit Peter < Symbiote Suit Peter (who Miles fought). Black Suit should be stronger than Agent Harry by virtue of Peter being superhuman, and Harry beat Kraven's ass tbh with close to no real combat experience. Miles fighting meteorite Peter should put him above his base black suit, along with the other reasons posted in the original scaling comment.

So then the scaling chains would be revised as:

1. Mid Miles

Base Peter < Li < Miles (1st awakening) < Kraven <= Agent Venom < Black Suit Peter < Miles (2nd Awakening) <= Symbiote Suit Peter = AV Spiderman < Venom

2. Based Miles

Base Peter < Li < Miles (1st awakening) <= Kraven <= Agent Venom < Black Suit Peter < Symbiote Suit Peter <= Miles (2nd awakening, can keep up with Anti-Venom Peter and fight Venom without completely relying on zappy pops) = AV Spiderman < Venom

----
Getting to Kraven, the scaling should be obvious. At Kraven, Harry already beat up Kraven, and he's weaker than Black Suit Peter, who should be weaker than Miles, who came back and one-shot Kraven and fought Symbiote Suit Peter, who is > Black Suit, who is relative to some degree to his Anti-Venom form, all of which is below Venom.
Click to expand...
Looks good.
 
Unsure, either works. Unless making Miles and Symbiote Suit Peter equal is a good middle road compromise.
 
I mean we already got some staff votes on the scaling chain rn, what's left to do other than to adjust the justifications and profiles accordingly
 
@Maitreya12 hasn't been online in 19 days, @Golden_Void hasn't been online 14...

It seems at leasst the scaling chain and calcs were accepted so last we left off so I suppose if anyone is down to help pick up we can see who needs justifications and finish off the last bit they left us with so we can finally apply this
 
Agreed scaling:
1. Mid Miles

Base Peter < Li < Miles (1st awakening) < Kraven <= Agent Venom < Black Suit Peter < Miles (2nd Awakening) <= Symbiote Suit Peter = AV Spiderman < Venom
Click to expand...
Idk if my suggestions posted here were applied or not

But if so, can someone else sandbox the profiles with the proper edits and ability changes, and make a profile for Kraven if one wasn't already? For the most part they should be 90% done, and I still don't agree with Li backscaling to the first 2 games to upscale the rest of the S6.
 
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