Magnus the Red vs Vecna

[Mr. Bambu]

Waiting for the Acausality thread tbh, ad nauseum does nothing.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Why people are still talking about mind hax working even disregarding acausality is beyond me. I've already debunked that with the nature of Magnus' existence and other methods.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@Udlmaster Means nothing.

@EmperorRorepme Being able to see some 1-B shit =/= his mind is 1-B.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

That's not what I mean by nature if existence and other methods.

 

[Udlmaster]

@Shadow Yes, your argument has amounted to nothing, hasn't it?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Type 2 concepts having type 4 acausality =/= having type 5 makes you invulnerable to it when it doesn't function on cause and effect.

 

[Udlmaster]

1. Prove that it doesn't function on any level of cause and effect when they can be destroyed, created and negated etc.

2. If they have Type 4, they cannot affect a Type 5.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

I erase you on a type 2 conceptual level -> You no longer exist, have never existed, and will never exist. Cause and effect get changed all at once.

It's not the same as punching them where the punch is the cause and the damage is the effect.

 

[Udlmaster]

That's obviously a form of cause and effect, you just described a cause "I erase you on a type 2 conceptual level ->" and a effect "You no longer exist, have never existed, and will never exist."

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

You wouldn't exist before the cause even happened.

 

[Udlmaster]

Doesn't matter, if I erase you across all time and space, it doesn't mean I can then do it to a Type 5.

This is no different, it's literally the exact same thing.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

If they have a concept that can be manipulated and have no resistance, then yes you can do it to a type 5.

 

[Udlmaster]

> Me "Why does Type 2 give you Type 5 acausality"

"Because they're in a different causal system"/"Just are"

 

[JackJoyce]

c o n c e p t u a l m a n i p u l a t i o n t y p e 2

Nothing works on Type 5 that isn't higher dimensional or has similar level of causality transcendence

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

If they have a concept that can be manipulated and have no resistance, then yes you can do it to a type 5.

^

 

[Udlmaster]

Based on nothing what-so-ever.

I've debunked this endlessly.

 

[JackJoyce]

@ShadowWarrior1999 Magnus has resistance to conceptual manipulation in the first place

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

More ways Magnus could win which I didn't want to include to make it fair. Summon a higher power. Maybe a Changer Of Ways. Summon a mass of Changlings who are higher-dimensional. Summon literally any minor Tzeentch Daemon that literally swim around in the concept of fate, controlling it. Create a realm in The Warp and seal Vecna within it. Etc.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

@ShadowWarrior1999 Magnus has resistance to conceptual manipulation in the first place

So do D&D gods that are weaker than Vecna.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

It seems Vecna can still be affected by causality manipulation because he only follows an irregular pattern.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

@ShadowWarrior1999 Magnus has resistance to conceptual manipulation in the first place

So do D&D gods that are weaker than Vecna.

Ok but to what degree?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

>Causality manipulation on a type 4 acausal.

Uh no.

You can ask Bambu about the conceptual resistance.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Nice ignoring what I just said. Yeah, all it says on his profile is he follows an irregular causality where cause comes before effect. Why wouldn't someone be able to manipulate something as simple as that. And he has no resistance. Just make the effect come after the cause or erase the effect.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Type 4: Irregular Causality: Characters with this type of Acausality operate on a different and irregular system of cause and effect than regular causality. This grants them resistance to abilities such as Causality Manipulation, Fate Manipulation, and Precognition, among others.

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Not in all cases. Like this one. If it was the case where they were running on a causality system that had added concepts of the verse or something like beings from Noisy Tenant then it's grant those benefits. But this isn't that much different from regular causality it's just backwards. So it wouldn't grant much resistence to causality manipulation especially including the manitude of manipulation Magnus has of the concept. Sure it's grant resistence to the other too though.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

All of yah need to chill out. If acausality revisions decide Type 2 affects Type 5, so be it. If they decie otherwise, so be that, too. Gr8.

As for resisting. There are potentially infinite Low 2-Cs in the verse that form their own scaling chain through Demon Lords (most layers of the Abyss have a Demon Lord, there are infinite layers of the Abyss). Above them are the Low 2-C gods- crap tiers sorta like Lurue. Following those aforementioned crap tiers are the stronger Demon Lords- beings like Demogorgan, Graz'zt, Orcus, etc. At that point you're looking at the 2-Cs who already resist concept manip from every single being in the chain below them. Above them are the 2-C gods- creatures like Vecna, who even then is far from a "baseline" 2-C god.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Multiple staff members already agreed with type 2 conceptual manipulation being able to affect type 5 acausals.

 

[Udlmaster]

Where?

In this thread?: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/2550655

Because people stop responding to me, which is Burden of Rejoinder, of course.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm going to ask all of you to stop debating causality for now since this is literally the worst merry-go-round of a discussion ever. Like I said allow the thread to handle it. Udl, if you want people to respond to your points perhaps it'd be best to actually listen to their's.

 

[JackJoyce]

Alright what I understand from the thread if Magnus can resist conceptual manipulation of Vecna it's an Inconclusive. Else he loses

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

So what are the arguments for both in summary

 

[Mr. Bambu]

As of right now neither has anything to affect the other to any consequence. Magnus cannot bypass Vecna's resistances and Type 5 Acausality negs Vecna. Depending on the outcome of the aforementioned Acausality thread, this becomes either an incon or a stomp in Vecna's favor.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

So Magnus cannot do anything to Vecna's resistances and Vecna (for now) can't do anything to a type 5. Alright.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

As mentioned before, it's accepted that type 2 conceptual manipulation will work on type 5 acausals.

So I suppose Vecna stomps then.

 

[Zenkaibattery1]

So Vecna wins by conceptually destroying Magnus?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

He can't kill Magnus because of 1-A immortality.

But Vecna can incap with 2-A conceptual mindhax.

 

[JackJoyce]

Conceptual mindhaxing someone who has resistance to conceptual manipulation?

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

Resistance =/= immunity.

Vecna's mindhax is 2-A in scale, immensely above Magnus's resistance.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

He can't kill Magnus because of 1-A immortality.
But Vecna can incap with 2-A conceptual mindhax.

Pretty certain the 1-A immortality was instantly debunked.

 

[ShadowWarrior1999]

He had it from Tzeentch.

Something changed?