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Magi Addition

just wanted to say that there's absolutely no explanation on NEP2 so that should be fixed
 
Okay I think there needs to be some clarifications here cuz this is a mess.

I agree that Mid-Godly makes more sense since Sinbad was reduced to just his rukh which means his rukh wasn't erased entirely, we see that when Ugo had his helpers gather Sinbad's rukh when he killed Sinbad.

Type 2 NEP should be removed as well since none of them are completely devoid of rukh since rukh is absolutely necessary to use magic and also because Sinbad nor David had their rukh erased completely.
 
The thread should be closed, I will create a new thread to review rukh as a concept, till that is done, I am not sure we will be able to make head way in this thread
 
Actually.

Can I get the proof for Rukh being conceptual in nature? It seems you guys are treating it as such, but being "the origin" of everything doesn't actually grant Concept Manip Type 2 without further context.
 
Has High-Godly been reverted to Mid-Godly yet?
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Actually.

Can I get the proof for Rukh being conceptual in nature? It seems you guys are treating it as such, but being "the origin" of everything doesn't actually grant Concept Manip Type 2 without further context.
Click to expand...
Exist in every level of reality
 
Lormac_CC said:
David didn't use Magic in that state
Click to expand...
Doesn't really change much though since David was in some sort of after life along side everyone else after the events of Alma Torrance. If we do give David and the others type 2 nep it shouldn't be battle applicable
 
OriginFox said:
Doesn't really change much though since David was in some sort of after life along side everyone else after the events of Alma Torrance. If we do give David and the others type 2 nep it shouldn't be battle applicable
Click to expand...
Yes, I know, it just makes them difficult to kill
 
Mr._Bambu said:
This isn't proof.
Click to expand...
The more I think about it Rukh could be a Concept 2 since it looks to a primodial concept that cause and existed all phenomons/concept . Also, at the same type existed before all phenomon in reality.

I believe the comment above was the reason why it was given concept manipulation in the first place, this isn't my comment, it belongs to Elizhaa
 
Mr._Bambu said:
Actually.

Can I get the proof for Rukh being conceptual in nature? It seems you guys are treating it as such, but being "the origin" of everything doesn't actually grant Concept Manip Type 2 without further context.
Click to expand...
Justification for Conceptual manipulation is on any god profile, you can check it there
 
Mate I don't know who the hell the gods are, I wasn't actively aware of this verse's existence until you fellas dragged me in here. If there's scans that explain it as a concept, I'd like to see 'em.
 
Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2. The Rukh is the home of souls and is the origin of life. It is hailed as a supernatural force which governs the world. Causing all natural phenomena stated by both Matal Mogamett and Sinbad. Rukh is what links everything together and is all equal. Rukh is also fate. Fate is the force the governs the actions of every single being. According to Ugo the Ruhk compose the spirits inside living things and that the universe is composed of multiple dimensions. Other characters say this too. Not spatial or temporal in this sense. Rukh is one of these invisible dimensions that cannot be seen by regular people. The Ruhk exist in both vertical and horizontal dimensions. According to Sinbad there are countless worlds with each its own God who control the Ruhk just like King Solomon)
 
Overlord775 said:
Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2. The Rukh is the home of souls and is the origin of life. It is hailed as a supernatural force which governs the world. Causing all natural phenomena stated by both Matal Mogamett and Sinbad. Rukh is what links everything together and is all equal. Rukh is also fate. Fate is the force the governs the actions of every single being. According to Ugo the Ruhk compose the spirits inside living things and that the universe is composed of multiple dimensions. Other characters say this too. Not spatial or temporal in this sense. Rukh is one of these invisible dimensions that cannot be seen by regular people. The Ruhk exist in both vertical and horizontal dimensions. According to Sinbad there are countless worlds with each its own God who control the Ruhk just like King Solomon)
Click to expand...
Thanks Overlord775
 
Overlord775 said:
Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2. The Rukh is the home of souls and is the origin of life. It is hailed as a supernatural force which governs the world. Causing all natural phenomena stated by both Matal Mogamett and Sinbad. Rukh is what links everything together and is all equal. Rukh is also fate. Fate is the force the governs the actions of every single being. According to Ugo the Ruhk compose the spirits inside living things and that the universe is composed of multiple dimensions. Other characters say this too. Not spatial or temporal in this sense. Rukh is one of these invisible dimensions that cannot be seen by regular people. The Ruhk exist in both vertical and horizontal dimensions. According to Sinbad there are countless worlds with each its own God who control the Ruhk just like King Solomon)
Click to expand...
I've read all of these scans, and if I must be honest, I doubt Concept Manip type 2. There are many statements of what the Rukh are- fate, the origin of life and spirits, cause of all natural phenomena, etc. But I don't think anything is strongly indicative of Conceptual Manipulation of any kind, much less Type 2.
 
Rukh does not just make up everything in verse, it also predates reality, forms fate, exists in every layer of reality, and also is stated to be the origin of everything with even stones having ruhk
 
also as i said before, if ruhk is accepted as still being conceptual after this, I still disagree with the high-godly and nep2 given that they still were made up of ruhk they were just made up of Il Ilah's black ruhk instead of Solomon's white ruhk
 
deonment said:
Rukh does not just make up everything in verse, it also predates reality, forms fate, exists in every layer of reality, and also is stated to be the origin of everything with even stones having ruhk
Click to expand...
Sure, but this alone doesn't make it Conceptual. Predating reality may even be an argument against it being conceptual, though that may rely on context.
 
It may be one. If concepts shape that which is in reality, and you predate reality, then under a basic interpretation, you are not a concept. Now, I don't think this particularly matters, since from what I'm seeing there is 0 evidence that Rukh actually are Type 2 concepts, but still, a point worth noting.
 
I mean, this CRT seems pretty much done, if someone can justify the Concept Manip to me here I figure it'd save a lot of time and energy.
 
Personally I don't get how this isn't a concept, origin of life, describe as pure Existence, Everything in reality participates in ruhk, causes all phenomenal including phenomenal like life and Death, I believe the life and Death would already be CM3, anyways it governs reality and at the same time completely independent of it, even if reality gets nuked rukh still exist and flows on, shapes reality to every level of Existence(all higher dimensions) and links everything together.
 
Last edited:
Lormac_CC said:
Personally I don't get how this isn't a concept, origin of life, describe as pure Existence, Everything in reality participates in ruhk, causes all phenomenal including phenomenal like life and Death, I believe the life and Death would already be CM3, anyways it governs reality and at the same time completely independent of it, even if reality gets nuked rukh still exist and flows on, shapes reality to every level of Existence(all higher dimensions) and links everything together.
Click to expand...
Okay, let me lay this out. Let's say you have a default god-figure, creator of everything, blah blah. This god-figure does not inherently get Conceptual Manipulation for the pure and simple reason that he made the cosmos. The main issue I have with Rukh is that none of your scans actually mention it doing what concepts do- that is to say, defining the "shape" of the thing. If I destroyed the rukh of, say, a rock- would rocks still look the same? All rocks? Each rock has their own rukh, though, right? So this clearly isn't a platonic concept- that's not how those work, to my understanding.

Also, I have reason to question the legitimacy of higher dimensions, too, but that's a can of worms I'd rather not deal with.
 
Ach, I wouldn't worry too much about me meddling with that. While I'm getting bad vibes based on the mentions of it here, I've no interest in getting into more damn Tier 1 discussions. Scans for concept manip would be much appreciated, however.
 
Mr._Bambu said:
If I destroyed the rukh of, say, a rock- would rocks still look the same?
Click to expand...
no, the rock that had that ruhk it would cease to be
Mr._Bambu said:
So this clearly isn't a platonic concept- that's not how those work, to my understanding.
Click to expand...
Yes this isn't exactly platonic, it would be in theory more along the lines of the concept of function if we were to try and apply it to plato stuff, it is more along the lines of reality at it's most fundamental being made of 0D points which make everything physical, bit for magi it is ruhk instead and it also includes non-physical things
 
deonment said:
no, the rock that had that ruhk it would cease to be

Yes this isn't exactly platonic, it would be in theory more along the lines of the concept of function if we were to try and apply it to plato stuff, it is more along the lines of reality at it's most fundamental being made of 0D points which make everything physical, bit for magi it is ruhk instead and it also includes non-physical things
Click to expand...
Ah, but therein lies the problem. If Rukh were a Type 2 concept, rocks would cease to be- they would be reliant on it.

So yeah I don't think these are concepts.
 
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