Madara vs Momoshiki

[OneBleachHurricane]

Still don't understand

Still wrong. Vote Invalid.

And you haven't debunked anyone's reasoning for voting Madara and the current tally is:

Madara: 11 (@Wrath_Of_Itachi, @KingTempest, @Popted2, @Rocker1189, @M3X, @MrKerf, @Shadowbokunohero, @Omimi, @JooCipher) + UchihaSlayer96 and Me

Momoshiki: 2 (@theultimate5105, @Bernkastelll) For Invalid Reasons

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

I do lol now your complaining because I used logic against you

If by "logic" you mean your Headcanon

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

You don't understand it The context and narative is that Momoshiki is superior to Kaguya so If you want to go with this Momoshiki stomps

This is not even currently accepted, so even if it were true, you need to make a CRT to get it implemented.

Even then, it doesn't change the fact that this is a massive hax stomp, regardless of AP.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Momoshiki: 2 (@theultimate5105, @Bernkastelll) For Invalid Reasons

thats not a invalid reason pal

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

thats not a invalid reason pal

Your only reasons are "Momoshiki stronger than Madara" and ignoring Madara's Hax and Versatility

 

[Bernkastelll]

Your only reasons are "Momoshiki stronger than Madara" and ignoring Madara's Hax and Versatility

Momoshiki also has a good versatility, he can absorb ninjutsus and throw it back but stronger

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Momoshiki also has a good versatility, he can absorb ninjutsus and throw it back but stronger

1. Madara is smart enough to figure that out after one exchange, as Naruto and Sasuke did.

2. Madara is immune to Ninjutsu, via being a JJ.

3. Madara can absorb Ninjutsu too.....

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Momoshiki also has a good versatility, he can absorb ninjutsus and throw it back but stronger

And? The reason the majority of the people in this thread voted for Madara is because of his Hax despite them knowing what Momoshiki can do.

Therefore you can come up with the logic that Madara's Hax > Momoshiki's Hax

 

[Bernkastelll]

And? The reason the majority of the people in this thread voted for Madara is because of his Hax despite them knowing what Momoshiki can do.

Therefore you can come up with the logic that Madara's Hax > Momoshiki's Hax

Indeed Madara has advantage on it (and he is also a WAY better fighter), but if we use the scale of Momoshiki >> Kaguya, the chances of Momoshiki outclassing Madara on AP and speed is pretty high

 

[MrKerf]

So, are we adding it or..?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

but if we use the scale of Momoshiki >> Kaguya

Which this Wiki doesn't currently accept.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Which this Wiki doesn't currently accept.

Uh? And why?

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Uh? And why?

One, the statement was never aimed at Momoshiki alone, it was meant for any Otsutsuki.

Two, the statement was a hypothesis made even before the scroll was fully uncoded.

Three, when the scroll was fully encoded all it said was a possible invasion from other Otsutsuki.

 

[Bernkastelll]

One, the statement was never aimed at Momoshiki alone, it was meant for any Otsutsuki.

Two, the statement was a hypothesis made before even the scroll was fully uncoded.

Three, when the scroll was fully encoded all it said was a possible invasion from other Otsutsuki.

Thats sad, also, one of these was directly for Momoshiki, the one about a existance greater than Kaguya, anyways, I was on Momoshiki side cuz I thought that VSB puts Momoshiki above Kaguya, but if the site doesnt do it, Madara takes this due versatility and being a better fighter

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

AP is literally irrelevant in this fight with how big of a hax stomp it is, so even IF Momoshiki scaled higher, I don't see how this match would change tbf.

 

[theultimate5105]

This is not even currently accepted, so even if it were true, you need to make a CRT to get it implemented.

Even then, it doesn't change the fact that this is a massive hax stomp, regardless of AP.

He used the narative as a argument against me when it goes against him I was just pointing that out not using that as a argument in this
Anyways most of Madaras Hax gets countered by Absorbtion Momoshiki also has stuff like BFR to deal with madara and can beat him with his superior AP

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Anyways most of Madaras Hax gets countered by Absorbtion

And all of Momoshiki's Hax gets countered by Madara's Hax

Momoshikikiki also has stuff like BFR to deal with madaa

Which he never uses against a conscious opponent in battle, because he neither has the willingness nor the capability to BFR targets in battle.

And whatever else you're gonna say on this topic is unsupported by the profile, and out of character.

and can beat him with his superior AP

This isn't even an issue because of Madara's Regen, Numbers, and Hax.

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

.​

Current Tally

Madara: 12 (@Wrath_Of_Itachi, @KingTempest, @Popted2, @Rocker1189, @M3X, @MrKerf, @Shadowbokunohero, @Omimi, @JooCipher, @UchihaSlayer96, @OneBleachHurricane, @Bernkastelll)

Momoshiki: 1 (@theultimate5105)

Are you keeping track of your matches?

 

[theultimate5105]

And all of Momoshiki's Hax gets countered by Madara's Hax

How do absorbtion, Transmutation and BFR get countered by him

Which he never uses against a conscious opponent in battle, because he neither has the willingness nor the capability to BFR targets in battle.

And he still has feats of doing it if he has to he will

And whatever else you're gonna say on this topic is unsupported by the profile, and out of character.

This stuff is IC and on the profile just because he wasn't super dumb using it against sasuke doesn't mean its OOC

This isn't even an issue because of Madara's Regen, Numbers, and Hax.

Why by the way Most of momoshikis strong attacks would destroy him in a much worse way then regen could handle

 

[OneBleachHurricane]

Still 12 to 1 in Madara's Favor

 

[Gokukid2005]

Momoshiki fra
Limbo are visible to Rinnegan users, and Naruto was told not to use his clones against Momoshiki cause he'd absorb them, He'd do the same to Limbo.
Water style, Earth style, Fire Style, Lightning style, Wind style, Wood style = useless. He'd absorb them and release them hilariously stronger. He amped the Jutsu in Boruto's gauntlet to the point that they could harm Naruto and Sasuke's avatars and amped Bee's TBB to the point it could one shot Naruto.
Infinite Tsukuyomi won't do a thing as, again, Momoshiki has a Rinnegan.
Truth Seeking Balls aren't killing him as Sasuke was completely immune to the erasing effects by simply gaining Six Paths Chakra, which is just Otsutsuki chakra.
All of Momoshiki's Jutsu will harm Madara regardless of his Juubi Jin status because Sasuke was able to affect Madara with his Chidori, the exact same way Naruto's Sage Rasengan could. [1] [2] [3]
Most of Madara's options can be countered by Momo, while Momo has options that Madara can't really do much against along with superior stats in almost every category.

 

[PrinceofPein]

This argument is ridiculously absurd, like even let's ignore the fact that naruto and sasuke got way stronger than their teen self that would have decked madara,
Momoshiki >>> kaguya >>>> madara

Momoshiki clear cut stomps

 

[Arkenis]

Voting for Momo. Idk why this is even happening

 

[Bernkastelll]

Momoshiki FRA

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Limbo are visible to Rinnegan users, and Naruto was told not to use his clones against Momoshiki cause he'd absorb them, He'd do the same to Limbo.

If we assume all Rinnegan can see Limbo clones, then sure, he can see and absorb them. That won't stop Madara from using them strategically as decoys or support though.

Also, Momoshiki's Rinnegan is not currently accepted as having any of the abilities of other Rinnegan we've seen, so if you want this point to count for anything you need to create a CRT and get it added.

Water style, Earth style, Fire Style, Lightning style, Wind style, Wood style = useless. He'd absorb them and release them hilariously stronger. He amped the Jutsu in Boruto's gauntlet to the point that they could harm Naruto and Sasuke's avatars and amped Bee's TBB to the point it could one shot Naruto.

The problem with this is that Madara will quickly figure out Momoshiki's ability, as Naruto and Sasuke did rather quickly, and then he simply won't spam Ninjutsu unless he has an opening.

Also, Madara also has the ability to absorb Ninjutsu with his Rinnegan.

Infinite Tsukuyomi won't do a thing as, again, Momoshiki has a Rinnegan.

Once again, this is not accepted at the moment. You can try to create a CRT for it if you'd like, but as it stands, this is not a valid point.

Truth Seeking Balls aren't killing him as Sasuke was completely immune to the erasing effects by simply gaining Six Paths Chakra, which is just Otsutsuki chakra.

Another thing that is also not accepted. Seriously man, did you read Momoshiki's profile? He has none of these resistances.

All of Momoshiki's Jutsu will harm Madara regardless of his Juubi Jin status because Sasuke was able to affect Madara with his Chidori, the exact same way Naruto's Sage Rasengan could. [1] [2] [3]

Once again, this is due to Sasuke possessing Six Paths chakra, which Momoshiki currently does not.

Most of Madara's options can be countered by Momo, while Momo has options that Madara can't really do much against along with superior stats in almost every category.

Apparently not.

Also, people are under the impression that there's a major AP gap here, when that is not the case at all. Both Momoshiki and Madara simply upscale to an unknown degree above Toneri, that's it. Additionally, Momoshiki is currently not accepted as more powerful than Kaguya, which means there's no scaling chain here that would put Momoshiki massively above Madara or anything.
Again, you can create CRTs if you want, I don't mind at all, but as things stand these points are invalid.

 

[Arkenis]

Also, I think momo could just absorb this guy.

 

[theultimate5105]

Momoshiki has a AP Advantage no matter how you look at it
Fused Momoshiki>>Base Momoshiki>Kinshiki>>>Toneri<<<Kaguya>Madara

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Momoshiki has a AP Advantage no matter how you look at it
Fused Momoshiki>>Base Momoshiki>Kinshiki>>>Toneri<<<Kaguya>Madara

Even so, it remains a hax stomp I'm afraid; at least until one of you makes a CRT and gets a bunch of resistances accepted for Momoshiki.

 

[Arkenis]

Hax? momo absorbs him and he has no way to resist it. Simple

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Hax? momo absorbs him and he has no way to resist it. Simple

Assuming Momoshiki can turn absolutely anyone to a chakra fruit (which I don't think he can use against unwilling targets, since he didn't do so against Naruto; instead he slowly absorbed chakra from him for hours), he'd still need to touch him first. That would be easier said than done because Madara has many one-shot options that would prevent that.

 

[Arkenis]

Assuming Momoshiki can turn absolutely anyone to a chakra fruit (which I don't think he can use against unwilling targets, since he didn't do so against Naruto; instead he slowly absorbed chakra from him for hours), he'd still need to touch him first. That would be easier said than done because Madara has many one-shot options that would prevent that.

He doesnt need to touch them, he literally absorbed kinshiki from meters away. He would literally transmute madara into a fruit and eat him.

 

[Arkenis]

And his transmute doesn't require any "willing targets",

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

And his transmute doesn't require any "willing targets",

Proof of this? Again, Naruto is a pretty big anti-feat.

 

[Arkenis]

Another thing about speed, on momoshiki's page his base speed is literally compared to kaguyas and then he gets even faster in fused momo. So I think's he also just gonna be faster than madara to dodge most of his attacks or use shinra tensei before the attacks can land.

 

[Arkenis]

Proof of this? Again, Naruto is a pretty big anti-feat.

No? Get evidence that he needs willing targets, his absorption of chakra and transmutation are two different things. I also think naruto just has too much chakra to be transmuted all at once versus kinshiki.

 

[theultimate5105]

Wait I just remembered Naruto and Madara resist Transmutation so yeah

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

No? Get evidence that he needs willing targets, his absorption of chakra and transmutation are two different things. I also think naruto just has too much chakra to be transmuted all at once versus kinshiki.

I didn't make the claim that he can absorb absolutely anyone, so I don't think it's up to me to prove a negative.

We only have one example of him turning a conscious opponent into a chakea fruit, and he was a willing target. The only other conscious target he faced was Naruto and he didn't use it, so we don't have nearly enough information to determine that he can use it against anyone. Naruto is a blatant anti-feat.

 

[Arkenis]

Wait I just remembered Naruto and Madara resist Transmutation so yeah

Yea that's fine.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Wait I just remembered Naruto and Madara resist Transmutation so yeah

Oh, I forgot about this myself lol

 

[Arkenis]

I didn't make the claim that he can absorb absolutely anyone, so I don't think it's up to me to prove a negative.

We only have one example of him turning a conscious opponent into a chakea fruit, and he was a willing target. The only other conscious target he faced was Naruto and he didn't use it, so we don't have nearly enough information to determine that he can use it against anyone. Naruto is a blatant anti-feat.

No your claim is that the target has to be willing so you would need to prove that.