Macross "Monsters" vs Objects (Heavy Object)

[Yamatohime]

Round 1: The old relic of Space War I when humanity still tried to mix conventional warfare with an alien technology vs Objects, the weapons that rendered conventional warfare obsolete. Standard battle assumptions except distance is based on ability of objects to stealth themselves (no stealth technology means starting combat distance of 160 km). What kind of Objects can defeat the UN Spacy walking artillery piece 1 vs 1?

Round 2: HWR-00 Monster Mk II served well and no unit on board of SDF-1 was completely destroyed. But it's time to change and make artillery support available for UN strike forces. Could its successor with Reaction Weapons Load and an ability to bring heavy guns on any type of battlefields defeat Objects 1 vs 1?

Bonus Round: Vajra Heavy Soldier is versatile space monster who obey commands of its Queen without any doubt. Could Objects protect our Earth from it by fighting it 1 vs 1.

 

[LazyHunter]

Looking at the HWR-00's stats, does it have anything else that gives it an advantage in this fight besides range. Because it seems Objects have better AP, Speed/Reactions and Durability, so I would say that practically every Object would easily win this, as most Objects have very effective anti-air/point-defense lasers that will likely intercept any missiles/shells, which negates even the range advantage. Objects don't really have much in the way of stealth, as it's kind of hard to hide something that big that produces that much energy.

From the Objects that have a profile here, the HWR-00 could maybe take on the Generation 0.5, since its armor is weaker than a normal Object, and given its inferior tech level to even 1st Gen Objects I wouldn't bet much on its targeting equipment.

 

[Yamatohime]

Well, it probably has Hypersonic+ (it shoot down small 230 meter ship at distance around 100 km in 1-2 sec) smart shells with stealth technology (because its shells somehow never shown on radars even though VFs missiles and enemy particle beams were shown few times) and High Hypersonic missiles (probalby with the same stealth techology).

EDIT: It looks like all their reaction (M/AM) weaponry are stealthed... Why I wonder...

 

[LazyHunter]

That would be a better chance, yes. Personally, I don't think the shells' speed would be enough, Objects are at least Hypersonic reactions because of the Baby Magnum intercepting multiple small secondary railgun shells (Mach 5), with another Object intercepting main railgun shells described as almost Mach 10, so they probably have Hypersonic+ reactions. The missiles would likely be fast enough, considering the Lisolette's main cannon (Mach 25 railgun).

Are the stealth shells and missiles canon? Because the way you describe it it could be a choice of the show/anime. The Heavy Object anime has also taken some liberties with how it depicts Object weapons, especially the laser beam cannons. Anyhow, I'm not sure how effective it would be. Objects have rendered stealth planes obsolete due to their powerful multiple types of sensors and targeting equipment, so modern planes don't even bother with stealth; the rule now is not "don't get caught in the radar", is "pack a ton of jamming devices, chaff, and flares and pray you are lucky and get a few seconds without the Object locking on to you".

There's still the gap on AP, Speed and Durability. HRW-00 can likely take on the Generation 0.5 due to the starting range being so far above the usual Object's combat range. Snow Quake is unclear, as it wasn't described in the novels and the anime CG model lacks any visible secondary weapons. But I still think most Objects have the upper hand. Lisolette would snipe the HRW-00 from outside its range, and the Aphrodite would jam all its weapons while it approache. Other Objects can likely tank the attacks that slip past their point-defenses and use their superior speed and AP to destroy the HRW-00.

 

[Yamatohime]

Well, stealth technology became abudant after research of ASS-1 (later SDF-1). All VFs has active stealth, most support craft has it too, strategic warheads stealthed too since Zentradi can't intercept them with their beam spam, tactical warheads (like those on VF and Monsters) are stealthed too (but usualy at least 10-25% destroyed when they get into the line of sight by Mach 25-30 vehicles in space). Missiles can perform anti-beam maneuvers though. RoF if we can trust TV show is around 1-1,5 RpM for cannons and 2 RpM for rail-gun missile launchers.

P.S. It can still function even after EMP effect from it's own nukes (but 10x50 kilotons are weak EMP) from some distance.

 

[LazyHunter]

Then it can definitely take on the Generation 0.5, not sure if it could on other Objects without secondary weapons like the Simple is Best and others due to the difference in AP/Durability. Other Objects win this, they can tank the attacks that slip through their defenses while the HRW-00 would be destroyed in one main cannon shot, and it lacks the speed to fight an Object that gets close enough.

 

[Yamatohime]

So basically Monster is outclassed by larger, heavier (both in mass and arms) and faster enemies... Like in the original show. Even something of year 2009 can't compete with Objects.

Well, maybe something from 50 years in the future can compete... Need to research Konig Monster.

P.S. Can Monster still defeat Objects with poor point-defense by unloading its ammo? Even with subsonic speed Object need at least several minutes to get into fire range...

 

[LazyHunter]

That's the tricky part. There's a few 2nd Gen Objects with poor or non-existant point defense. But if they keep moving Subsonic speed and Hypersonic, probably Hypersonic+ reactions should allow them to dodge several shells at long range until they get close enough for their Elites to use their aimdodge techniques. So it would depend if all the Monster's missiles hitting would be enough to destroy the Object, considering a succesful nuclear strike can't destroy onion armor and would only distort and render useless 20 to 30% of the more than a 100 weapons normal Objects have. Case by Case:

Generation 0.5: As mentioned, poor armor and unclear effectiveness of point-defense weaponry due to lack of sensors. Likely gets destroyed.

Snow Quake: Unclear, the anime model doesn't have any visible secondary weapons, so taking that design it would be forced to use its six main cannons to intercept, which have a slower rate of fire than secondary weapons.

Simple is Best: Unclear, high Transonic charging speed (1350 km/h) and increased frontal armor, but it only has a single main cannon and its charging method makes it so that it only can make slight adjustements to its trajectory, so not a lot of avoiding enemy fire.

Early States: No secondary weapons, no onion armor, special defense probably useless against nukes, mainly a stationary Object. Likely gets destroyed.

Miskatonic: Poor point-defense due to the lack of sensors enforced by its main weapons, but it would also interfere with the Monster's sensors. Critical weak point in the exposed cockpit. Probably gets destroyed.

Destruction Fes: Unclear, no normal secondary weapons, but it's basically the most manoeuvrable Object so far.

 

[Yamatohime]

Well, I found out that UNS used smart shells even before Space War I. They can correct themselves for precison hit (it has dispersion of 10 meters over 160 km with main cannons). And aren't Objects large? At least 100 meters by eyeballing most of them. Reaction probably won't allow to dodge shells (after all reaction weapons are dual annihilation weapons - like anti-matter nukes). It has blast of 150-250 meters.

 

[LazyHunter]

Main body is around 50 meters + the cannons and legs, yes. I misread the part of the profile that mentions the reaction warheads, didn't realize those were also in the cannons. Then it can probably take on all the Objects I mentioned above with poor point-defense except the Simple is Best, which is unclear (Described as continuing to charge towards an enemy Object even if it's shot dozens or hundreds of times; hundreds likely being a hyperbole).

 

[Yamatohime]

Well, at least it's not completely one sided battle. But kind of predictable outcome. After all the difference in area denial weapons vary from Object to Object.

So... Should I create the second round for Konig Monster? After it will be approved of sorts. If "father" couldn't compete... Maybe "son" could do it.

 

[LazyHunter]

Just took a quick look at that page, that would be a much closer fight assuming it has Reaction Weapons Load. The Konig Monster would probably win given its superior speed and range, as it could easily get behind the Object and most Objects only have forward facing main cannons..

 

[Yamatohime]

Yeah, DE load is kind of overkill. I will check for more information about VB-6 to make it more accurate.

 

[Yamatohime]

Added additional scenarios and renamed thread.