Luffy VS Zoro | Whiskey Peak Rematch in the New World (0/7/1)

[KlinkyGrape]

Monkey D. Luffy VS Roronoa Zoro
Dressrosa Versions being used
Gear Fourth & Asura are restricted
Fight Location: Fishman Island (Gyoncorde Plaza)
Starting Distance: 100 Meters

Monkey D. Luffy: 0
Roronoa Zoro: 7 (Eminiteable, joshpiece, KingTempest, NomsNoms, Bernkastelll, Sword_Guy_Z, Popted2)
Inconclusive: 1 (FluffyCreatureZ)

 

[ElixirBlue]

Zoro claps, gg

 

[Eminiteable]

Following

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

I think luffy has better observation and armament haki than zoro at this time, I think luffy is also more durable than zoro and can fight for longer so I'm giving it to luffy.

 

[KlinkyGrape]

I think luffy has better observation and armament haki than zoro at this time, I think luffy is also more durable than zoro and can fight for longer so I'm giving it to luffy.

Checking the profiles Luffy has proficient observation and proficient armament, his durability scales to 420 megatons. Zoro has proficient observation and advanced armament, his durability scales to 420 megatons.

I don't know who can fight longer since both are listed at 'immense' in their stamina section.

 

[KlinkyGrape]

Zoro claps, gg

I will need more reasoning to count your vote.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

So why tf is zoro advanced armament? There is literally nothing to suggest that.

 

[Eminiteable]

So why tf is zoro advanced armament? There is literally nothing to suggest that.

His ability to use "Mighty Blade swordmanship" is an advanced application of Armament as described by Hyou as it utilizes Ryuo.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

What is mighty blade swordsmanship? Ryou just means haki in wano, no necessarily the advanced version of it. I think luffy also is implied to be superior to zoro in armament so it's safe to assume he can get harder than zoro (pause). I assume this "mighty blade swordsmanship" was being used pre wano too right?

 

[Eminiteable]

What is mighty blade swordsmanship? Ryou just means haki in wano, no necessarily the advanced version of it. I think luffy also is implied to be superior to zoro in armament so it's safe to assume he can get harder than zoro (pause). I assume this "mighty blade swordsmanship" was being used pre wano too right?

Ryuo doesn't just mean haki in wano; quickly made this:

It's never implied that he has superior armament, at least not in this arc; funny that you mention that since Luffy's armament actually is weak against bladed/piercing objects as shown against Hody Jones.

Mighty blade swordsmanship is the act of cutting steel and cutting nothing, yes it was being used pre-wano.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

What I got from that is haki means ryou in the land of wano and they use the advanced version of it. But something very important is that just because zoro can use an application of advanced armament doesn't mean his haki is stronger than luffy's.

 

[Eminiteable]

What I got from that is haki means ryou in the land of wano and they use the advanced version of it. But something very important is that just because zoro can use an application of advanced armament doesn't mean his haki is stronger than luffy's.

I never said it did make his haki stronger than Luffy's, that's a different argument.

You'd need to prove who has the better armament by looking at their feats.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Sure ok I considered advanced armament to mean that zoro's haki > Luffy.
Do you have feats to compare their two hakis?

 

[Eminiteable]

Sure ok I considered advanced armament to mean that zoro's haki > Luffy.
Do you have feats to compare their two hakis?

All we know is that Luffy can use hardening, he hasn't really shown any superiority to anyone. He also has the antifeat of it being weaker to piercing/cutting attacks.

For Zoro we know his haki can overpower others like Pica's and is superior to the Scabbards considering he's able to wield Enma.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Pretty sure luffy's haki is comparable to doflamingo's whose greater than pica. And also greater than chinjao who seems pretty strong I don't know who he scales to though. Considering doflamingo was able to beat smoker, law and almost luffy himself, I think he should be above zoro. So that would mean luffy > Zoro. what do you think?

 

[Eminiteable]

Pretty sure luffy's haki is comparable to doflamingo's whose greater than pica. And also greater than chinjao who seems pretty strong I don't know who he scales to though. Considering doflamingo was able to beat smoker, law and almost luffy himself, I think he should be above zoro. So that would mean luffy > Zoro. what do you think?

No Doflamingo's haki was superior to Luffy's, not counting Gear Fourth. Doffy's Haki has no reason to be greater than Pica's. Chinjao'a haki is pretty fearless also unsure if Luffy overcame him due to his haki or brute force.

Overall I don't think this is sufficient enough to determine Luffy's got stronger haki than Zoro.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Why is doflamingo's haki superior to luffy's? And why does his haki magically get stronger in G4? It's the same haki. Doflamingo is literally stronger than pica so why shouldn't his haki be too? And doflamingo's haki is also stronger than vergo who is superior to law, smoker and sanji.

 

[Eminiteable]

Why is doflamingo's haki superior to luffy's? And why does his haki magically get stronger in G4? It's the same haki. Doflamingo is literally stronger than pica so why shouldn't his haki be too? And doflamingo's haki is also stronger than vergo who is superior to law, smoker and sanji.

Doflamingo has feats superior to Luffy's with haki that's why, checking Doflamingo's profile you would see his respect thread that goes over it.

I can't tell you why his haki magically gets stronger in G4 but it does consistently, in the Doflamingo fight and the Katakuri fight.

Position in a crew =\= being greater in every aspect than someone, you would need proof of his haki being better. Proof of Doffy's Haki being superior to Vergo's? Yes I agree that Doffy is superior to Law & Sanji (fyi law only overpowered a fatigued vergo's haki; Law's Haki was inferior to smoker's who's inferior to Vergo.)

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

Position in a crew =\= being greater in every aspect than someone

This may be true, but it's very obvious that Doflamingo is stronger than the rest of his crew. It's not wrong to assume that he has equal strength to pica's haki or perhaps greater. Just because they don't have feats doesn't mean they can't be stronger or weaker than another.

 

[Eminiteable]

This may be true, but it's very obvious that Doflamingo is stronger than the rest of his crew. It's not wrong to assume that he has equal strength to pica's haki or perhaps greater. Just because they don't have feats doesn't mean they can't be stronger or weaker than another.

We scale based off evidence; why comes in the form of feats or statements.

Either way doffy is irrelevant here since Luffy's haki doesn't scale to him.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

No why? I think his G4 doesn't make his haki stronger but instead the insane force of the attacks makes his attacks stronger and not the haki. He was able to compensate his inferiority against katakuri by using G4 this way but with doflamingo, luffy totally bullied him in G4. His haki getting stronger after blowing air into his muscles makes absolutely no sense, I think my explanation is better. Luffy's haki should totally scale. Unless of course it's explicitly stated that G4 makes his haki stronger or that doflamingo's haki is stronger than luffy's.

 

[Eminiteable]

Doffy's Haki was proven superior outside of gear Fourth, inside gear Fourth Doffy couldn't harm Luffy's haki and it maintained its rubber properties.

It's literally proven by feats.

Gear Fourth is a form created with haki, it's why when it runs out Luffy can't use haki.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Luffy should take this. There is no proof that Zoro‘s Armament is significantly higher than Luffy’s. Besides, Luffy‘s speed in G2 is faster than Zoro’s speed and speed is not equalized here. Why do I write that? Doflamingo actually complimented Luffy on his speed during the fight. While, admittedly, Zoro’s Pica feat was great, Luffy’s speed and observation Haki should help him win here.

 

[KlinkyGrape]

Luffy should take this. There is no proof that Zoro‘s Armament is significantly higher than Luffy’s. Besides, Luffy‘s speed in G2 is faster than Zoro’s speed and speed is not equalized here. Why do I write that? Doflamingo actually complimented Luffy on his speed during the fight. While, admittedly, Zoro’s Pica feat was great, Luffy’s speed and observation Haki should help him win here.

On the profile both scale to the same place in speed and observation haki,

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

On the profile both scale to the same place in speed and observation haki,

Honestly makes no sense, but whatever... Luffy still has an observation Haki advantage.

 

[KlinkyGrape]

Honestly makes no sense, but whatever... Luffy still has an observation Haki advantage.

He doesn't in dressrosa, only in wholecake does he have advanced. They're equal in this key for observation.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

He doesn't in dressrosa, only in wholecake does he have advanced. They're equal in this key for observation.

No they aren’t. Zoro’s observation Haki is the worst of the Monster Trio. He was unable to sense the Yeti Cool Brother’s Attack, while Luffy could. Luffy has consistently displayed better OH feats. Any person saying otherwise is just speculating based off of nothing.

 

[Eminiteable]

No they aren’t. Zoro’s observation Haki is the worst of the Monster Trio. He was unable to sense the Yeti Cool Brother’s Attack, while Luffy could. Luffy has consistently displayed better OH feats. Any person saying otherwise is just speculating based off of nothing.

Luffy couldn't sense Batman or his arrow, Zoro did. Luffy and Sanji couldn't sense the tonatta's, Zoro could. You can go on and on comparing them. Luffy and Zoro are both proficient, there's not a significant difference in Observation Haki and as such it will not be a deciding factor of this battle.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

Luffy couldn't sense Batman or his arrow, Zoro did. Luffy and Sanji could sense the tonatta's, Zoro could. You can go on and on comparing them. Luffy and Zoro are both proficient, there's not a significant difference in Observation Haki and as such it will not be a deciding factor of this battle.

Nope. That is Wano. These are not those versions.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

We can’t use feats from Wano. Even then though, you really want to compare that one feat against all of Luffy’s future sight feats?

 

[Eminiteable]

Nope. That is Wano. These are not those versions.

Zoro's other key is for the Onigashima raid, his pre-enma key doesn't exist and feats in wano are considered comparable to his dressrosa self.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

I honestly disagree. Zoro himself states that the SHs get stronger after every island. Plus, the Batman thing was just Luffy being Luffy. A better representation of how their Hakis compare is on Punk Hazard. Regardless, we have never seen anything close to FS from Zoro, whereas Sanji is implied to have it and Luffy does have it. FS is literally the next level of OH. Regardless, Luffy has shown better OH feats in comparison to Zoro as of the Dressrosa arc, so I am giving the win to him.

 

[Eminiteable]

I honestly disagree. Zoro himself states that the SHs get stronger after every island. Plus, the Batman thing was just Luffy being Luffy. A better representation of how their Hakis compare is on Punk Hazard. Regardless, we have never seen anything close to FS from Zoro, whereas Sanji is implied to have it and Luffy does have it. FS is literally the next level of OH. Regardless, Luffy has shown better OH feats in comparison to Zoro as of the Dressrosa arc, so I am giving the win to him.

Luffy literally doesn't have future sight in this key, the OP says it's their dressrosa versions, they're both comparable with proficient kenbunshoku.

We have seen precognition from Zoro against Carrot.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

I did not say that he did. You may have misunderstood what I was saying there. I was talking about how Zoro never portrays anything close to it. And he dodged Carrot by instinct. If he used FS, he would not have gotten hit by her Electro.

 

[Eminiteable]

I did not say that he did. You may have misunderstood what I was saying there. I was talking about how Zoro never portrays anything close to it. And he dodged Carrot by instinct. If he used FS, he would not have gotten hit by her Electro.

He knew she would attack him specifically before she appeared, that's precognition. He's not an advanced user so his precognition isn't going to allow him to dodge everything.

They're proficient, he's capable of using observation at a proficient level there's nothing more to discuss.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

He knew she would attack him specifically before she appeared, that's precognition. He's not an advanced user so his precognition isn't going to allow him to lol dodge everything.

They're proficient, he's capable of using observation at a proficient level there's nothing more to discuss.

I disagree. Anyway, I’ve stated who’s got my vote and why. So I’m done here.

 

[KlinkyGrape]

I think we have to go by the profiles when voting for a matchup. At least this is what I was told we're supposed to do.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

I think we have to go by the profiles when voting for a matchup. At least this is what I was told we're supposed to do.

Well then don’t count my vote if you do not want to. It seems pretty clear that you are basically setting up a match that can have no victor. You won’t let me point out any advantages, so this basically becomes ”x should win“ “no y!” Such a thread is boring. Both Zoro and Luffy have range and speed. You don’t want to include OH based on feats, so the match is a draw (even though Zoro himself stated that he would not follow someone weaker than him, but let’s just ignore all of that).

 

[Eminiteable]

(even though Zoro himself stated that he would not follow someone weaker than him, but let’s just ignore all of that).

He literally never said that.

 

[Sword_guy_Z]

He literally never said that.

Go reread the chapter where Luffy used CH on the Fishman. I’m done with this thread.