Lucifero Gets AP Upgrades

[Joshyyy_64]

Good evening,

I want to advocate changes to Lucifero's attack potency. Maybe a possible, or a likely rating. I'm hoping for a full on rating.

Exhibit A
https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Epsilon_R/Black_Clover:_Singularity (Dante's black hole feat calculated)

Exhibit B:
Dante already has Black Hole creation on his page so we don't need to talk about it.
The real issue is the AP value that was calculated; I am sceptical that Dante actually scales to this value because not only does the narrative not justify it, but lucifero was shown to be as strong and stronger than Dante in all departments. So, I think Lucifero should physically scale to this AP value because it's actually his magic that he gave to Dante via contract.
I also think that the narrative backs my claim quite well because of the planetary statements about him -Lucifero destroying the world as soon as he emerges.
Exhibit C:
TLDR: I'd like Lucifero to receive a possible/likely 5-B rating of 281.2 zettatons, preferably a full 5-B rating.
Let's see how well this goes.

Agree:
Neutral:
Disagree:

 

[AnAverageUsername]

This is almost the same argument as last time, which was rejected

 

[AstaDragon123]

Don't you have to take a gap of 2 months to thrade the same topic again?

 

[Joshyyy_64]

For a different character. I thought I mentioned Dante had 0 narrative backing whilst on the other hand lucifero has it. This is more plausible, we're pretty much arguing how reliable the statements are and whether they work with lucifero and the calculation hand in hand.

This is almost the same argument as last time, which was rejected

 

[Joshyyy_64]

Don't you have to take a gap of 2 months to thrade the same topic again?

where does it say that?

 

[AnAverageUsername]

For a different character. I thought I mentioned Dante had 0 narrative backing whilst on the other hand lucifero has it. This is more plausible, we're pretty much arguing how reliable the statements are and whether they work with lucifero and the calculation hand in hand.

You had these same arguments of scaling over Dante in the original thread. It ain't nothing new even if you say that Dante doesn't have the narrative backing.

 

[Joshyyy_64]

You had these same arguments of scaling over Dante in the original thread. It ain't nothing new even if you say that Dante doesn't have the narrative backing.

1. We're not talking about Dante, we're talking about scaling the demon king
2. I'm not using the statement from the SOTWK movie as the basis, I'm using other statements.

 

[Joshyyy_64]

And 3 staff hadn't even rejected it yet, it was only Clover.

 

[AnAverageUsername]

1. We're not talking about Dante, we're talking about scaling the demon king

I know we aren't talking about Dante, that's what I just said

2. I'm not using the statement from the SOTWK movie as the basis, I'm using other statements.

This may be a case of me misreading the original thread, since I thought I saw you bring up Lucifero being above Dante as a scaling point, but even then I didn't bring up the movie

 

[Kazuma_kuwabara]

I agree with you Joshyyy but I have to disagree or people will call me wanker, goon and other bad things

 

[Majinere566]

I don’t know about this dawg. Your first panel for your justification we clearly see that the Planet is still intact as he’s standing on the surface. It’s most likely life wiping at best, which is kind of backed up by Lucifero stating that he’d kill every human (I don’t have the Panel but you probably know what I’m talking about)

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

I don’t know about this dawg. Your first panel for your justification we clearly see that the Planet is still intact as he’s standing on the surface. It’s most likely life wiping at best, which is kind of backed up by Lucifero stating that he’d kill every human (I don’t have the Panel but you probably know what I’m talking about)

He didn’t reach 100% which is what the statement was about

 

[Joshyyy_64]

I don’t know about this dawg. Your first panel for your justification we clearly see that the Planet is still intact as he’s standing on the surface. It’s most likely life wiping at best, which is kind of backed up by Lucifero stating that he’d kill every human (I don’t have the Panel but you probably know what I’m talking about)

he's not even manifested in that panel yet, dawg lock in

 

[CloverDragon03]

I don’t know about this dawg. Your first panel for your justification we clearly see that the Planet is still intact as he’s standing on the surface. It’s most likely life wiping at best, which is kind of backed up by Lucifero stating that he’d kill every human (I don’t have the Panel but you probably know what I’m talking about)

This

Plus, this is largely reused arguments that were rejected before

 

[Majinere566]

He didn’t reach 100% which is what the statement was about

he's not even manifested in that panel yet, dawg lock in

My statement still stands. In fact can you prove that when fully manifested he’s overcoming the Gravitational Binding Energy of the planet?

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

My statement still stands. In fact can you prove that when fully manifested he’s overcoming the Gravitational Binding Energy of the planet?

He never fully manifested so your comment is irrelevant to the statement. If he continued to get stronger ( continue to manifest) then when he appeared the world would be destroyed. But his manifestation was stopped.

We have a reliable statement of him going to destroy the world. And then when he does appear it is confirmed that it would happen if he appears at 100%,while also has a calculation to back it up

I don’t see the problem here and no one has actually given a reason as to why it can’t be used

 

[CloverDragon03]

The visual used in conjunction with the statement shows Lucifero just towering over some ruined land, not a planet actually being blown up...

Reasons have been given, now whether or not you like them is something different

 

[PHANtomFELdway]

The visual used in conjunction with the statement shows Lucifero just towering over some ruined land, not a planet actually being blown up...

Reasons have been given, now whether or not you like them is something different

Yet again. You are blatantly ignoring the fact that not only does it say the world will be destroyed by him appearing.it has a calculation meeting that tier, it very clearly says that if his manifestation continued the world would be destroyed,and that is in reference to his gravity magic. When the first gate opened up,the world itself was losing mana.

 

[Testarossa002]

This is a....unique thread to say the least.
You're proposing that Dante - who does the feat - wouldn't scale, but Lucifero does.
How does that work exactly?

 

[Joshyyy_64]

My statement still stands. In fact can you prove that when fully manifested he’s overcoming the Gravitational Binding Energy of the planet?

I don't have to prove anything. The CRT is there to convince you that he should have this AP value (the calc I linked in the OP)

"A character with a certain degree of attack potency does not necessarily need to cause destructive feats on that level, but can cause damage to characters that can withstand such forces. As such it isn't proof of a low attack potency, if a character's attacks only cause a small amount of destruction."

The visual used in conjunction with the statement shows Lucifero just towering over some ruined land, not a planet actually being blown up...

Reasons have been given, now whether or not you like them is something different

Let's take the image above literally then and assume that Lucifero is actually the size as depicted. Obviously that makes no sense from what we see later on.
Nacht in the panel is discussing with the captains what would happen if Lucifero were to "fully manifest" and in his mind, he's picturing what we can depict to be an aftermath of a battle, similar to the fight in spade a few days after. That's a small town, never mind him visually picturing a country or a continent. I personally think that statements > picturing ruin especially when not seen first hand what he can do prior to the fight.

This is a....unique thread to say the least.
You're proposing that Dante - who does the feat - wouldn't scale, but Lucifero does.
How does that work exactly?

Good question. The narrative is that Lucifero has many planetary statements but Dante doesn't. So even though Black Clover is a UES, he wouldn't scale to it because it's seen as an outlier (I disagree and feats should be accepted based on accuracy of calc rather than narrative implications). but thats the rules.
However, Dante < lowest supreme devils < half manifested lucifero. And lucifero is the one who gave Dante his gravity magic so he should naturally scale to the feat.

 

[Arkenis]

If this is all that's for 5-B, a likely rating should be fine. It seems a bit like Luci can destroy all countries not the world itself.

 

[CloverDragon03]

Let's take the image above literally then and assume that Lucifero is actually the size as depicted. Obviously that makes no sense from what we see later on.
Nacht in the panel is discussing with the captains what would happen if Lucifero were to "fully manifest" and in his mind, he's picturing what we can depict to be an aftermath of a battle, similar to the fight in spade a few days after. That's a small town, never mind him visually picturing a country or a continent. I personally think that statements > picturing ruin especially when not seen first hand what he can do prior to the fight.

Lucifero also even says he's just gonna kill everyone in the world when he goes full power so clearly it's more like a life wipe as opposed to actually destroying the planet

Good question. The narrative is that Lucifero has many planetary statements but Dante doesn't. So even though Black Clover is a UES, he wouldn't scale to it because it's seen as an outlier (I disagree and feats should be accepted based on accuracy of calc rather than narrative implications). but thats the rules.
However, Dante < lowest supreme devils < half manifested lucifero. And lucifero is the one who gave Dante his gravity magic so he should naturally scale to the feat.

Frankly I don't like this at all. It's just picking and choosing when it comes to that feat, and if you wanted to scale Lucifero to 5-B, you'd be much better off just going off of his statements

 

[Testarossa002]

Good question. The narrative is that Lucifero has many planetary statements but Dante doesn't. So even though Black Clover is a UES, he wouldn't scale to it because it's seen as an outlier (I disagree and feats should be accepted based on accuracy of calc rather than narrative implications). but thats the rules.
However, Dante < lowest supreme devils < half manifested lucifero. And lucifero is the one who gave Dante his gravity magic so he should naturally scale to the feat.

Imma be real with you. This doesn't work at all.
It's like Sekke having an infinite speed feat but deemed an outlier but going ahead to scale Julius to the same speed feat.
You're better off trying to argue for 5-B dante and work your way up from there. Or like Clover suggested, ditching the feat completely and use only statements for Lucifero