Low 1-C neutral space dbs

[TiltedFN]

Hello all, this thread we are going to be going over the neutral space, which made its first appearance in dragon ball super.

Introduction.
First off, we need to go over what the neutral space even is. The neutral zone is a space that surrounds all of the 12 universes. This space was used for holding the tournament between beerus and champ in the universe 6 arc. There lied a nameless planet that the tournament was held on, the neutral space also appears in various depictions of the 12 universes. In multiple depictions of the neutral space, stars and galaxies are shown in the background, but this in itself doesn't necessarily mean much, because it is the actual space that matters, and not the contents within it, besides the actual universes of course. The timelines, are just the structures that encompass all of that, all dimensions, the neutral space, everything.


Neutral space
A construct that contains 4d spacetimes that don't touch, usually exist within a construct Orthogonally Higher. Meaning it can imbed lower dimensional structures. Also seen many times the neutral space is shown that these 4d spacetimes are but a tiny part of the entire neutral space. 4d structures being seen as insignificant compared to the neutral zone, even in a very large scope of the neutral zone, the macrocosms are not visible at all. Spacetime continuums can not be in the same physical space parallel to each other, never meeting, without being across a 5-D plane. As seen here, these spacetimes are parallel to each other, existing in the same physical space, yet never able to interact with/or meet each other, which again, wouldn't be possible unless existing across a 5-D plane. So no matter how far they expand, or move in any direction, they can't come into contact, and it should be like that anyway since the are separate spacetimes.

Spatial Dimensions/Parallelism

As per ultima's words here, "For two line segments to be parallel, you'd have to set it so they wouldn't touch regardless of how far they are extended, which wouldn't be possible if they stood side-by-side in 1-D space as in here, meaning you would need them to be displaced over a plane. Same thing happens with planes: For them to be parallel, they shouldn't ever be able to meet, so you'd need them to be displaced over 3-D space. Generalizing that to the 4-D case, spacetimes would obviously have to be displaced over a 5-D region (This works by definition, too: If they're different spacetime continuums then obviously they can't share the same space, in the way 3-D objects exist around us for instance)".

And this is already accepted in dragon ball that the 12 universe are parallel to each other and actually come in pairs as explained by whis. And obviously as seen in the neutral space, these macrocosms will never ever touch each other, so that means the universes must be displaced over a 5-D plane. 3 spatial + 1 temporal macrocosms, then the neutral space would have an extra coordinate axis for holding these macrocosms, which in totality would means the cosmology is composed of 4 spatial + 1 temporal, since the universes are contained in this physical space, yet never meeting. This would make the entire timeline 5-D for holding the neutral space. this is also supported by our own tiering system here, which directly fits the notion of the neutral space.
As seen here, these spacetimes are parallel to each other, existing in the same physical space, yet never able to interact with/or meet each other, which again, wouldn't be possible unless existing across a 5-D plane. And just to make it even more clear, here is another picture proving they are pairs, and parallel to each other, here. And mind you, each macrocosm as of now is accepted as having 6 or 7 universal spacetime continuums, (2-C). So yes it would be another dimension, and in this case, a higher dimension. EDIT: Go here for updated arguments: https://vsbattles.com/threads/low-1-c-neutral-space-dbs.156554/post-5935420

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[DarkDragonMedeus]

Pretty sure we been through this so many times.

 

[Fezzih_007]

Following

 

[GarrixianXD]

Oh god... this won't look good

 

[Wikisource]

This looks good

 

[Rokim21]

Looks alright at a glance, following for sure.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Looks good, I agree. Let them mald

 

[GarrixianXD]

I'll remain neutral on this.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Pretty sure we been through this so many times.

When? When has this argument ever being presented?

I'm genuinely asking, give me one thread or instance where this was presented. I assume you're not just looking at the conclusion and assuming the argument must have been made in the past, right?

Please call Ultima here, as they were the ones who make the argument about how 4D spaces work.

It's a fact that each bubble is accepted as a 4D structure, and they don't overlap, so the neutral space MUST be 5D

If you disagree, debate Ultima

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Obviously, I agree with this

I also don't think DDM is right, I've never seen anything like this before even after searching the forum for a good while.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

When? When has this argument ever being presented?

I'm genuinely asking, give me one thread or instance where this was presented. I assume you're not just looking at the conclusion and assuming the argument must have been made in the past, right?

Please call Ultima here, as they were the ones who make the argument about how 4D spaces work.

It's a fact that each bubble is accepted as a 4D structure, and they don't overlap, so the neutral space MUST be 5D

If you disagree, debate Ultima

About here for instance and both @Ultima_Reality and @DontTalkDT disagreed with bumping a Low 1-C cosmology for DBS.

 

[GarrixianXD]

About here for instance and both @Ultima_Reality and @DontTalkDT disagreed with bumping a Low 1-C cosmology for DBS.

2021 was the worst imaginable year for DBS on this wiki ngl

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Neutral on this with slightly leaning to agreeing.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

About here for instance and both @Ultima_Reality and @DontTalkDT disagreed with bumping a Low 1-C cosmology for DBS.

This thread used a completely different reasoning, DDM. I'm sorry, I can't agree with this

This one is trying to propose the idea that 4D structures cannot be side by side with one another without overlapping, much like lower dimensional structures
Neutral Space must be 5D via this logic.

Zamasu used the idea of a timeline composed of uncountable infinite snapshots of 4D objects as low 1-C

 

[Hasty12345]

I would agree, but since neutral space has 3D objects, I must say it cannot be 5D

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

I would agree, but since neutral space has 3D objects, I must say it cannot be 5D

Neutral Space holds 4D structures, it cannot be 3D either.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I would agree, but since neutral space has 3D objects, I must say it cannot be 5D

This is one problem yes.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Neutral Space holds 4D structures, it cannot be 3D either.

Can't it be just another type of 4D?

 

[Hasty12345]

Neutral Space holds 4D structures, it cannot be 3D either.

All 12 universes fall under 1 timeline so arguably it doesn't inherently have to hold 4D structures

But my post was in jest as a similar argument was made in another thread and it was equally ridiculous

 

[Robo432343]

"For two line segments to be parallel, you'd have to set it so they wouldn't touch regardless of how far they are extended, which wouldn't be possible if they stood side-by-side in 1-D space as in here, meaning you would need them to be displaced over a plane. Same thing happens with planes: For them to be parallel, they shouldn't ever be able to meet, so you'd need them to be displaced over 3-D space. Generalizing that to the 4-D case, spacetimes would obviously have to be displaced over a 5-D region (This works by definition, too: If they're different spacetime continuums then obviously they can't share the same space, in the way 3-D objects exist around us for instance)".

This quote that you used is from a Low 1-C Kingdom Hearts thread.

Don't use this. Low 1-C in Kingdom Hearts has an extremely different context from dragon ball

 

[GarrixianXD]

I don't think I could agree with this, I feel like this entire proposal is an extrapolation. The Tournament of Power took place outside the multiverse yet Hit and Anilaza were all able to use their hax within the Null Realm. This just feels really iffy, perhaps Low 1-C cosmology could be applied to heroes but for DBS it just doesn't line up. It's ultimately all based on size here, as it seems. Nothing about the Null Realm/World of Void was stated to be extra-dimensional directly nor metaphorically.

 

[Dagoth_OwO]

I'll only say here that I don't recall the Neutral space being argued for 5-D before. Also, the Neutral space =/= the Null Realm since I saw it being brought up

That said, I guess I'll remain neutral for now

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

All 12 universes fall under 1 timeline so arguably it doesn't inherently have to hold 4D structures

But my post was in jest as a similar argument was made in another thread and it was equally ridiculous

Then just downgrade the 12 universes to several 3D spaces

I'm fine with this too.

I don't think I could agree with this, I feel like this entire proposal is an extrapolation. The Tournament of Power took place outside the multiverse yet Hit and Anilaza were all able to use their hax within the Null Realm. This just feels really iffy, perhaps Low 1-C cosmology could be applied to heroes but for DBS it just doesn't line up. It's ultimately all based on size here, as it seems. Nothing about the Null Realm/World of Void was stated to be extra-dimensional directly nor metaphorically.

The contradiction can't be left unchecked

Null Space is also not the neutral space

It's a fact that 4D structures cannot stand side by side without overlapping

You know what can stand side by side? 3D spheres.
Or a 5D Neutral Space
One has to be true by sheer physics

 

[ImmortalDread]

If I am assuming correctly, the whole reasoning is relying on a visual interpretation and not at any statements?

 

[GarrixianXD]

If I am assuming correctly, the whole reasoning is relying on a visual interpretation and not at any statements?

Yes.

Then just downgrade the 12 universes to several 3D spaces

I'm fine with this too.


The contradiction can't be left unchecked

Null Space is also not the neutral space

It's a fact that 4D structures cannot stand side by side without overlapping

You know what can stand side by side? 3D spheres.
Or a 5D Neutral Space
One has to be true by sheer physics

That explains the timelines in Dragon Ball, and am I missing something again? I thought the ToP took place beyond the Multiverse.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Who would scale to this?

 

[Hasty12345]

zeno and likely IZ and anyone above

 

[ImmortalDread]

I feel this is the insignificant 5D space (which is 2-A+) that surrounds around two space-time continuums. Put me in disagreement.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I would think just zeno no? IZ would do it via a specific infection like way.

 

[GarrixianXD]

I feel this is the insignificant 5D space (which is 2-A+) that surrounds around two space-time continuums. Put me in disagreement.

It's not even 2-A+

 

[ImmortalDread]

I think it is. But again, the rating no longer exist. Even if it is 5D; it is simply insignificant which goes against the point of low 1-C. You need to significantly affect/destroy/create a 5D place, not to marginalize a 4D place with those 5D irrelevant space.


Anyway, this entire CRT is dependent on a visual interpretation, and barely those statements holds any importance to low 1-C largely (they simply explain the structures underneath).

Furthermore, I disagree with what I understand the thread's premise from the first glance, since it sounds like the old rating of 2-A+ I may need to research again if 2-A+ got removed or replaced. (I remember I had a civil conversation regarding this with DT)

 

[GarrixianXD]

I'm sure "insignificant" 5-D is still 5-D

 

[Greatsage13th]

hmm

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

Reminds me of the Kingdom Heart Low 1-C, I remember that one called its "neutral space" infinite tho

 

[GarrixianXD]

Reminds me of the Kingdom Heart Low 1-C, I remember that one called its "neutral space" infinite tho

Sounds like it backfired real hard

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Sounds like it backfired real hard

Why is that so?

 

[GarrixianXD]

Why is that so?

Nvm, I just noticed Sora is Low 1-C

Seems like Kingdom Hearts logic was used

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Nvm, I just noticed Sora is Low 1-C

Seems like Kingdom Hearts logic was used

Remember when KH was star level or sth.

 

[Bobsican]

Yeah, while on one hand we default the space between universes as 5-D out of how that'd be required so they can be parallel position-wise to each other, on the other, for Low 1-C we'd require that space to specifically be infinite, and to be stated as bigger compared to the universes.
I'd also not rather use KH's case here as it has way more to back it up than the above.

 

[GarrixianXD]

The World of Void has been stated as infinite though, no?