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Lille vs Ainz

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@Mara

It virtually causes instant death via heart crushing,something lille has no problems with.

It's not a reality warping death inducing attack.

Heck the only time i recall ainz using it was against a fodder soldier with no special abilities
 
Yomi Schwarz said:
@Mara
It virtually causes instant death via heart crushing,something lille has no problems with.

It's not a reality warping death inducing attack.

Heck the only time i recall ainz using it was against a fodder soldier with no special abilities
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Well, it;s clearly stated as instant death effect and not "crushing damage".
 
Major Correction.

"Virtually Circumstantial instant death effect via heart crushing"

Pay more attention to the context pls.

Anyone with a high enough regen can shrugs that off no difficulty.
 
No, it's literally said - Instand death effect. It's not "This spell crushing enemy heart and it's died". There no reason in additional instant death effect (which is make this spell worse because obvious "Instant death resist") if your enemy died because internal rapture.
 
What??? Literally What???? O___O

>It has instant death properties

>it crushes the heart of the foe

It's circumstantial death spell via organ crushing.Wtf are you saying going on about saying no reason for an instant death effect

And again,he only ever used it on a fodder soldier how in the **** can that even compare to lille
 
Isn't all instant death spell has this properties, because it's... instant death spell, which pretty obvious. BTW there a sentence right before:

it has instant death properties

This spell was one that crushed a foe's heart, and among the ten tiers of spells, it was an instant death spell of the 9th tier.


>And again,he only ever used it on a fodder soldier how in the **** can that even compare to lille

But there only fodder in NW so what should you expect i bring as example of the skill?

Edit: And even if Grasp Heart required hert crushing to apply instant death effect, how did Lille can counter instant death effect itself apart from crushed heart (which is he probably can regenerate)?
 
Second thought, i didn't see how Grasp Heart can lead to something good to Lille, if he somehow resist effect (but he has no resist to instant death so i don't think it's possible), he'd fall in stun condition and Ainz have time to use Time Stop or Perfect Unknowable. Then it's end in barrage of his spells that can catch Lille even with his intangibility, like Astral Smite and Reality Slash.
 
Offtopic question:

Is anyone having the same issue as me? In my new mobile phone I cannot access the most updated replies. The newest I can see in that mobile are from 21 hrs ago.
 
PaChi2 said:
Offtopic question:
Is anyone having the same issue as me? In my new mobile phone I cannot access the most updated replies. The newest I can see in that mobile are from 21 hrs ago.
Click to expand...
Same.
 
Yomi Schwarz said:
@Pachi

You basically admitted to warping this thread to get your own result..

If you dont want to discuss ainz's actual character in a fight then dont simple as that,Your the OP anyways
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No, Im "warping" this because Ainz's character is discussed in every thread and its treated differently in every thread. And I like consistency when discussing a character. If I had any bias in the match I wouldnt have used Jiliel Lille but his final form instead. If Ainz loses or wins is of no concern to me.

I was thinking about creating a General Discussion thread to discuss his character.
 
Come here

This thread will be invalid until that thread is discussed because the Lille votes are relying mostly on Lille having the first move.

Thank you and sorry for the inconvenience
 
Ainz wins due to death manipulation, time stop, perfect unknowable, greater teleportation and delay teleportation, and resurrection.
 
Hey Yomi, I know I'm beyond late to the Grasp Heart conversation, but it is a spell that by definition not only crushes said person's heart (biologically) but also causes instant death (conceptually). I posted this in the general discussion thread that PacChi made but I feel like it's important for you to hear too.

"This spell was one that crushed a foe's heart, and among the ten tiers of spells, it was an instant death spell of the Ninth Tier. Many of the necromantic spells which Momonga was adept with possessed instant death properties, and this was one of them."

That explains the heart crushing part of the spell and it references it being an instant death spell. It then says:

"Momonga had used his innate skills to increase the chances of instant death, and his necromancy-enhancing abilities improved the effectiveness of ÒÇîGrasp HeartÒÇì even further"

Which I think seals the deal with it being both physical crushing of the heart, and instant-death in the conceptual sense
 
Is there any point for this thread to be keep open? Like if Ainz is undergoing a CRT right now, we should at least postpone this until the revision done.
 
Parkjammer said:
Hey Yomi, I know I'm beyond late to the Grasp Heart conversation, but it is a spell that by definition not only crushes said person's heart (biologically) but also causes instant death (conceptually). I posted this in the general discussion thread that PacChi made but I feel like it's important for you to hear too.
"This spell was one that crushed a foe's heart, and among the ten tiers of spells, it was an instant death spell of the Ninth Tier. Many of the necromantic spells which Momonga was adept with possessed instant death properties, and this was one of them."

That explains the heart crushing part of the spell and it references it being an instant death spell. It then says:

"Momonga had used his innate skills to increase the chances of instant death, and his necromancy-enhancing abilities improved the effectiveness of ÒÇîGrasp HeartÒÇì even further"

Which I think seals the deal with it being both physical crushing of the heart, and instant-death in the conceptual sense
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You are clearly wanking beyond proportions here

saying grasp heart is conceptual means it can kill beings faaaar stronger than Ainz like yhwach and Gilgamesh xD

How is it virtually an instant death spell? Because it crushes your heart

No Proof Whatsoever says it is abstract and conceptual.

Your claims are filled with holes.

literally nobody is gonna take this seriously.
 
So now we're take in question Ainz's death manip ability? There is natural restriction to this, like you can't kill undead being through only instant death effect skill. Or enemy have resistance to instant death effect. Or enemy have some sort of convenient type of immortality or Regenerationn (not Low-mid or Low-High).
 
@Yomi

You misunderstood him, so please drop that tone.

He meant that "Conceptually speaking, Grasp heart's effect is instant-death", not that "grasp heart is a conceptual level instant death spell".

The concept behind the spell "Grasp Heart" is causing instant death, and if that effect doesnt work, it stuns. That's what he is saying.
 
Homu Sweet Homu said:
Is there any point for this thread to be keep open? Like if Ainz is undergoing a CRT right now, we should at least postpone this until the revision done.
Click to expand...
Well, I will close this then.

It will be reopened when the discussion is finished.
 
The revision pretty much didn't really change anything :p

and this thread too cluttered,if you guys insist on continuing this i'd suggest making a new one
 
Isn't this just a time stop then grasp heart win for Ainz?...

And even if he doesn't use time stop in time, ainz literally has another life to use in order to make sure to do it...which I doubt would even come to that given how cautious Ainz is.

I vote Ainz
 
@Jugger

Lille attacks faster than ainz can cast time stop and grasp heart.

and the x-axis can phase things without a trace mind you

that's all im saying
 
I agree with Yomi about Lille attack speed capability, but not sure would it outright kill Ainz. Second thing, will Lille be less caution after his shots and won't it let Ainz make his move?
 
@Yomi Schwarz How? Timestop is insantaneous with silent magic, he literally only has to think it. Also I don't think that AP is enough to kill ainz in a single hit...Especially when he is bones and has no vitals.
 
"Yomi Schwarz

@Jugger

Lille attacks faster than ainz can cast time stop and grasp heart.

and the x-axis can phase things without a trace mind you

that's all im saying"

How does any of this in any way permanently put Ainz down? He's a skeleton for petes sake! If you fill him with holes, that isn't going to kill him. and even if it somehow did, he has resurrection.
 
@Jugger, Well if they both use their move at same time Lille attack still will hit Ainz, because it's insantaneous too.

Honestly if Ainz cast Timestop he'll win this for sure, because even if he died after this he'll just revived and timestop still be active..
 
@Maraderchik

Are you saying this guy is really faster than ainz could even complete a thought in? I really do not know. Or is the silent magic modifier being forgotten about because that is understandable.

Silent magic allows any spell as long as it isn't super tier to be casted without annunciation and any cast time. So ainz would only have to think it.

Lillies not only has to move his arms and actually aim but he also has to go through the process of actually thinking it. Ainz literally just has to think [Timestop].
 
They both just need to think to make a move, as for Ainz he isn't some kind of supercomputer and his thought process will be the same as Lille, at least i think so. Correct me if i'm wrong .
 
@Maraderchik

Well I think you are forgetting that Lille has to actually take aim and fire too though ontop of actually thinking it.

Ainz just has to do one thing, think. [Timestop]
 
@Maraderchik

So he doesn't actually move his arms to attack? I don't get it. Like what is his primary attack? A sniper rifle like weapon right? I assuming so and that he is incredibly fast but that still doesn't really beat the speed of a thought though. Unless Im misunderstanding what he is attacking with?
 
Maraderchik

Ohhhh I see now. If thats the case then yea Ainz is surely going to be hit first.

Still though I don't think itll one shot him (Ainz is on another tier of durability, and hes just a skeleton) and even if it does he can resurrect and timestop will still be active afterwards and GG. But I see, it isn't a complete stomp then XD

Just another thing too...

" After achieving Vollständig, while he is immune to most attacks, he is not immune to reality manipulation attacks, such as Kyoraku's Bankai, which caused a disease to appear on his body, and made him share his wounds."

And if somehow this fight drags on (Super unlikely) Ainz also has access to reality warp/manipulation, I don't really understand why its specifically stated as a weakness though, aren't most characters vulnerable to reality manip anyways?
 
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