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LGBT and Gender nonconforming Discussion Thread

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CosmicWreck

CosmicWreck

He/Him
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To be honest, LGBT media and I have a love-hate relationship (as I do with most media in general to be honest) but I can't help but gush about them nonetheless so I made this thread as place to talk about LGBT and gender subversion as depicted in various media, not only limited to novels, anime and manga but also music, movies, dramas, videogames, fanfics, Youtubers along with other web celebrities, models, fanart or basically anything one can think of.


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Personally, I don't like how alot of media depicts LGBT stuff, it feels like patronizing to make something to make a person feel special. I think its cool tho when pieces of media make a character that is gay vs making a gay character, I always appreciate the representation (unless its what i described in the first sentence)
 
As a LGBT person, I can talk about this topic.

I don't mind LGBT stuff in media, actually I love it, HOWEVER, a lot of media tries to overdo it to gain pink money, so we end up having a lot of generic shit without a real meaning just to have LGBT in some aspects because yes (money, of course).

I will say it again, I don't mind LGBT stuff, I love it, be it yaoi, yuri, trans or whatever;
yuruyuriayanochitose.png


I love a lot of LGBT media, but the mainstream media usually are doing a BAD JOB, and it ends up having the opposite reaction.

EVEN if some of these medias are really trying to help the LGBT community (which I doubt), they are just making the things worse and it isnt helping at all.
 
Bernkastelll said:
As a LGBT person, I can talk about this topic.

I don't mind LGBT stuff in media, actually I love it, HOWEVER, a lot of media tries to overdo it to gain pink money, so we end up having a lot of generic shit without a real meaning just to have LGBT in some aspects because yes (money, of course).

I will say it again, I don't mind LGBT stuff, I love it, be it yaoi, yuri, trans or whatever;
yuruyuriayanochitose.png


I love a lot of LGBT media, but the mainstream media usually are doing a BAD JOB, and it ends up having the opposite reaction.

EVEN if some of these medias are really trying to help the LGBT community (which I doubt), they are just making the things worse and it isnt helping at all.
Click to expand...
Ya, they aren't letting it come naturally where it fits and are cramming it in, makes it feel too forceful to enjoy it for what it is.
 
Bernkastelll said:
gender bender is pretty poggers, any recommendation?
Click to expand...
I have two.

Yakuza Reincarnation. You can imagine the MC's origins from the title. Maybe it's because of the MC's age or origins but the manga kind of sidesteps most of the more cliche characteristics of these kinds of mangas. MC doesn't perve over suddenly having a female body. MC doesn't freak out when he's offered being in a relationship with a guy and he's an all around chill person. It goes into some deep topics such as slavery, poverty, gang violence, drug abuse and murder. Rape is also a factor, but the characters never go through with it.

Fantasy Bishoujo Junku Ojisan To (A Guy Who Reincarnated as a Fantasy Knockout and Another Guy)- You probably read this one. The MC character has a page on this site IIRC. It actually has two characters that are cursed by a goddess to have their wishes. In one of their cases, this meant they were turned into a girl. An interesting enough story that uses the idea of weaponizing beauty and similar to the last recommendation, doesn't follow the usual pitfalls of this genre but it has it's own flaws that may make one uncomfortable. It was incredibly funny throughout, something not many series' can promise. It's ecchi but I don't think they ever crossed the line so much so that I became uncomfortable. Some questionable stuff: Hinata mistakenly thought his friend was pursuing a teenage girl and encouraged it though it never went anywhere. Unlike the previous recommendation, the story actively teases a romantic relationship between the gender bent guy with another male and acts like that's the end game. Also includes a homosexual who likes to give other men non-consensual massages.
 
I'm perfectly fine with extra representation of any kind (race, gender, literally whatever), but as long as it doesn't feel forced or overwrites what a character, for instance, used to be just for the sake of doing it - as that's just incredibly lazy imho.

But Jesus Christ, some people get WAY too ballistic and oversensitive about this in ways I've never seen before - it's almost maddening.
 
LGBTQ+ representation is cool to have in a piece of media.

However, if your whole identity and/or personality is that you're gay, or if said representation is shoved down everyone's throats (which is done quite often), then that's where we have an issue.

They're even times when a piece of media portrays a LGBTQ relationship as positive and healthy, but when you look deeper into it, it's actually toxic asf.

Tons of people love Catradora from the 2018 She-Ra reboot, but people seem to glance over the fact that Catra legit tried to destroy the whole world over Adora. That's not a healthy relationship. That's toxic asf.

I feel like Arcane is a great example of good representation. They don't make the fact that they're gay/lesbian/bisexual as their whole identity, and they actually have a character beyond that.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
They're even times when a piece of media portrays a LGBTQ relationship as positive and healthy, but when you look deeper into it, it's actually toxic asf.
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Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy immediately come to mind.

And actually another series that touches on representation of LGBTQ+ identities is Full Metal Alchemist, which does so to a master degree. OG Twin Peaks also did it masterfully, which is particularly impressive considering it came out early '90s.
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy immediately come to mind.
Click to expand...
How did I forget this?

But yeah, Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy is a solid example of representation that isn't shoved down our throats (though I will say that Ivy dumping Kite Man for Harley was kinda shitty).

LephyrTheRevanchist said:
And actually another series that touches on representation of LGBTQ+ identities is Full Metal Alchemist, which does so to a master degree. OG Twin Peaks also did it masterfully, which is particularly impressive considering it came out early '90s.
Click to expand...
The fact that I didn't even know these shows had LGBTQ+ rep...
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
How did I forget this?

But yeah, Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy is a solid example of representation that isn't shoved down our throats (though I will say that Ivy dumping Kite Man for Harley was kinda shitty).


The fact that I didn't even know these shows had LGBTQ+ rep...
Click to expand...
Some examples from FMA:
  • Envy is straight up non-binary
  • Garfiel, Winry's boss, is queer

OG Twin Peaks:
  • Laura Palmer is bisexual
  • One of Cooper's detective friends straight up discovered she was trans after a mission where she decided to try women clothing, and Cooper after learning it simply accepted it and gave her support immediately
 
LephyrTheRevanchist said:
Some examples from FMA:
  • Envy is straight up non-binary
  • Garfiel, Winry's boss, is queer

OG Twin Peaks:
  • Laura Palmer is bisexual
  • One of Cooper's detective friends straight up discovered she was trans after a mission where she decided to try women clothing, and Cooper after learning it simply accepted it and gave her support immediately
Click to expand...
Noice.
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
How did I forget this?

But yeah, Harley Quinn and Poison Ivy is a solid example of representation that isn't shoved down our throats (though I will say that Ivy dumping Kite Man for Harley was kinda shitty).
Click to expand...
I love Harley x Ivy and the general archetype of tall elegant fellow and little goblin creature

It was why I got into Sam and Max expecting more mlm content than it actually had (it’s still a good amount uvu but I want more)
 
huh, nice

Anyways, I don't think 'forced' LGBT rep is as much of an issue as people think. More specifically, I think people hyperfocus on massive triple A megacorporation content that forces it in (usually to avert people's eyes from their less than stellar treatment of real LGBT people by pretending that they're inclusive) and use that as an excuse to hate on everything else with LGBT content.

Like people bitching about 'Disney's first gay character' because it's the 50th time they've pulled that marketing trick is fine and funny, but people saying Guilty Gear's LGBT rep is forced or whatever is ******* stupid.

Mostly though I just want a good game with gay characters that isn't a visual novel :v
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
huh, nice

Anyways, I don't think 'forced' LGBT rep is as much of an issue as people think. More specifically, I think people hyperfocus on massive triple A megacorporation content that forces it in (usually to avert people's eyes from their less than stellar treatment of real LGBT people by pretending that they're inclusive) and use that as an excuse to hate on everything else with LGBT content.

Like people bitching about 'Disney's first gay character' because it's the 50th time they've pulled that marketing trick is fine and funny, but people saying Guilty Gear's LGBT rep is forced or whatever is ******* stupid.

Mostly though I just want a good game with gay characters that isn't a visual novel :v
Click to expand...
Agreed.

Good rep isn't hard to find, it's just that bad rep sticks out like a sore thumb sometimes, and that gets a lot of publicity (mainly from Twitter).
 
RandomGuy2345 said:
Agreed.

Good rep isn't hard to find, it's just that bad rep sticks out like a sore thumb sometimes, and that gets a lot of publicity (mainly from Twitter).
Click to expand...
Like, do y'all remember High Guardian Spice?:sick:🤮

Everyone knows that shit was ass, and it had forced/terrible rep, and guess what? That show got hella publicity because of that. That's just how the internet works these days.

It basically started somewhere around the early-mid 2010s. Anything remotely controversial (or anything that gets hate), gets more publicity around the internet.

Some of the most hated shows got hella publicity because of how much people shat on it. I could name at least 5 shows that fit into this category.

That's just how it is these days. Anything controversial gets publicity. Bad representation gets publicity.
 
Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara said:
gay characters that isn't a visual novel :v
Click to expand...
Let me introduce you to a little game known as Metal Gear.

metal-gear-vamp.gif

Vamp is bisexual, in fact that's why he's called Vamp, not due to his vampiric tendencies, but according to Solid Snake, because he's bi as ****, he was even in a relationship with Fortune's father before Ocelot offed him. In turn that also makes Fortune's father bi. Honestly, Vamp just kinda ***** anyone, Major? Fortune? Naomi? Solidus? He don't mind.

"Pliskin: Vamp is a member of Dead Cell. Born in Romania, his specialty is knives. But I guess you know that by now. When he was just a kid, he lost his family to a terrorist bomb that went off in a church they were attending. His body pierced by a crucifix, Vamp was buried under the rubble for two days before he was finally rescued. During those two days, he survived by feeding on the blood of his family to quench his thirst. That was how he acquired a taste for blood...
Raiden: So that's why they call him "Vamp"...
Pliskin: No. "Vamp" isn't for vampire. It's because he's bisexual... Rumor has it Vamp was the lover of Scott Dolph, the Marine Commandant who accidentally died two years ago. Scott Dolph was also the father of Fortune, the Dead Cell leader."

Volgin is bi but seems to have a strong preference for men, and Colonel Raiko is his lover, in fact that's how Big Boss gets found out, he's disguised as him, and Volgin goes to grope him because he thinks BB is his BF, but it's Big Boss, he instantly deduces that it's an imposter based on his dick being different, proceeds to brutalize Big Boss to the point of permanent damage (If you wear the dude's clothes and mask in the Boss Fight, Volgin even gets pissed off and says he's going to avenge him, for as much of a asshole Volgin is, he liked his bromance).
Ocelot is bi sexual (The bi stands for Bi(g Boss)).
Mantis is aromantic and asexual.
Sniper Wolf is Bi, can fall in love with both men and women.
Strangelove is a lesbian (Though she did mother a child with Huey, so technically bi that seemed to be more pity sex and the fact she wanted a child, not really because she liked Huey a whole lot, she has a very, very, strong preference for women), in fact she loved The Boss, to such a extreme degree she spent years of her life working on a AI construct of her to bring her back and to find out why Big Boss killed her. That's also why she goes by Strangelove, her colleagues used to make fun of her for loving another woman (Peace Walker takes place back in 1974, her fiasco with The Boss was before 1964).
The Boss is also Bi, see Strangelove, but also The Sorrow. Though it's said she'd do whatever when it comes to completing a mission and she has such a high charisma, men and women both fall for her.
Probably others I'm forgetting.

In my opinion, it isn't obnoxious or forced, it isn't played off as bad or a detriment or something to be ashamed of, it's all pretty natural and in some cases, played out really well like in the case of Wolf, Ocelot or Vamp. Thank **** honestly, having that shit done right is a thin line, and somehow they manage to not **** it up, at least in my opinion, idk, I ain't any of that but as someone who isn't, I liked it, each and every one of them are badass lads, like goddamn Ocelot sweeps most of this wiki in pure quality.

The main lads like BB, Snake, Raiden, Otacon (And Gray Fox) and what not are all explicitly straight (Though Kaz while into women, might be a Bi(g Boss) sexual), idk there's kinda gay lines about forgetting women when it comes to BB) but when it comes to side characters (Including some that are even more important than the main ones like Ocelot), there's plenty of LGBT+ what not. And it's been the case for over 20 years.
 
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I honestly can't ******* believe I forgot Metal Gear existed, how could I be so blind? Never realized it was so consistent though. I've never found a good opportunity to play the games tbh, though they're definitely something I wanna get into one day. Of course, lest we forget,
unknown.png


ImNot4nUser said:
Looks at Homestuck
Click to expand...
Reminds me of how I almost got into Homestuck because I heard it had LGBT characters, dropped in partway through, and got into Touhou like a year later... not sure how different I'd be as a person if I stuck with Homestuck tbh :v
 
CuteAnimeNekoGirl99 said:
I remember getting into a discussion about raiden’s ass and we agreed that on the male cyborg check list big dumpy is one of the check marks
Click to expand...
Yes. The artbook also points out how Raiden's ass is made from a gelatinous substance (Think like a hard body gel?).
Idk why they specified that (the material I mean), but they did. But they also called REX's Free-Electron Laser the "Dick Laser", they probably know what they're doing. Shinkawa, and I quote, also says "I always wanted him to be a supple and sexy mecha, instead of the rigid image of powered suits, cyborgs and robots".
 
T̵h̵e̵r̵e̵'̵s̵ a̵n̵ ̵i̵n̵t̵e̵r̵v̵i̵e̵w̵ ̵w̵h̵e̵r̵e̵ ̵A̵r̵a̵k̵i̵ ̵s̵a̵y̵s̵ ̵t̵h̵a̵t̵ ̵D̵I̵O̵ ̵w̵o̵u̵l̵d̵ ̵b̵e̵ ̵w̵i̵l̵l̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵f̵u̵c̵k̵ ̵m̵e̵n̵
̵B̵u̵t̵ ̵D̵I̵O̵ ̵s̵h̵o̵w̵s̵ ̵a̵ ̵p̵r̵e̵t̵t̵y̵ ̵s̵t̵r̵o̵n̵g̵ ̵r̵e̵f̵e̵r̵e̵n̵c̵e̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵w̵o̵m̵e̵n̵,̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵A̵r̵a̵k̵i̵ ̵g̵o̵e̵s̵ ̵o̵n̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵s̵a̵y̵ ̵t̵h̵a̵t̵ ̵D̵I̵O̵ ̵w̵o̵u̵l̵d̵ ̵f̵u̵c̵k̵ ̵m̵e̵n̵,̵ ̵b̵u̵t̵ ̵m̵o̵s̵t̵l̵y̵ ̵i̵f̵ ̵i̵t̵ ̵s̵e̵r̵v̵e̵s̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵f̵u̵r̵t̵h̵e̵r̵ ̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵g̵o̵a̵l̵s̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵D̵I̵O̵,̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵r̵e̵a̵l̵i̵t̵y̵,̵ ̵c̵o̵u̵l̵d̵ ̵n̵e̵v̵e̵r̵ ̵t̵r̵u̵l̵y̵ ̵l̵o̵v̵e̵ ̵a̵n̵y̵o̵n̵e̵.̵ ̵
T̵h̵e̵r̵e̵'̵s̵ ̵a̵ ̵l̵e̵g̵i̵t̵ ̵g̵a̵y̵ ̵c̵o̵u̵p̵l̵e̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵P̵a̵r̵t̵ ̵5̵,̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵D̵i̵a̵v̵o̵l̵o̵ ̵m̵u̵r̵d̵e̵r̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵m̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵w̵h̵a̵t̵ ̵s̵e̵t̵s̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵a̵s̵s̵a̵s̵s̵i̵n̵a̵t̵i̵o̵n̵ ̵s̵q̵u̵a̵d̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵g̵o̵ ̵a̵w̵o̵l̵.̵ ̵
 
Chariot190 said:
Yes. The artbook also points out how Raiden's ass is made from a gelatinous substance (Think like a hard body gel?).
Idk why they specified that (the material I mean), but they did. But they also called REX's Free-Electron Laser the "Dick Laser", they probably know what they're doing. Shinkawa, and I quote, also says "I always wanted him to be a supple and sexy mecha, instead of the rigid image of powered suits, cyborgs and robots".
Click to expand...
I can’t wait to use this in a debate

WHAT ABOUT THE ASS GEL GUYS
Chariot190 said:
T̵h̵e̵r̵e̵'̵s̵ a̵n̵ ̵i̵n̵t̵e̵r̵v̵i̵e̵w̵ ̵w̵h̵e̵r̵e̵ ̵A̵r̵a̵k̵i̵ ̵s̵a̵y̵s̵ ̵t̵h̵a̵t̵ ̵D̵I̵O̵ ̵w̵o̵u̵l̵d̵ ̵b̵e̵ ̵w̵i̵l̵l̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵f̵u̵c̵k̵ ̵m̵e̵n̵
̵B̵u̵t̵ ̵D̵I̵O̵ ̵s̵h̵o̵w̵s̵ ̵a̵ ̵p̵r̵e̵t̵t̵y̵ ̵s̵t̵r̵o̵n̵g̵ ̵r̵e̵f̵e̵r̵e̵n̵c̵e̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵w̵o̵m̵e̵n̵,̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵A̵r̵a̵k̵i̵ ̵g̵o̵e̵s̵ ̵o̵n̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵s̵a̵y̵ ̵t̵h̵a̵t̵ ̵D̵I̵O̵ ̵w̵o̵u̵l̵d̵ ̵f̵u̵c̵k̵ ̵m̵e̵n̵,̵ ̵b̵u̵t̵ ̵m̵o̵s̵t̵l̵y̵ ̵i̵f̵ ̵i̵t̵ ̵s̵e̵r̵v̵e̵s̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵f̵u̵r̵t̵h̵e̵r̵ ̵h̵i̵s̵ ̵g̵o̵a̵l̵s̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵D̵I̵O̵,̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵r̵e̵a̵l̵i̵t̵y̵,̵ ̵c̵o̵u̵l̵d̵ ̵n̵e̵v̵e̵r̵ ̵t̵r̵u̵l̵y̵ ̵l̵o̵v̵e̵ ̵a̵n̵y̵o̵n̵e̵.̵ ̵
T̵h̵e̵r̵e̵'̵s̵ ̵a̵ ̵l̵e̵g̵i̵t̵ ̵g̵a̵y̵ ̵c̵o̵u̵p̵l̵e̵ ̵i̵n̵ ̵P̵a̵r̵t̵ ̵5̵,̵ ̵a̵n̵d̵ ̵D̵i̵a̵v̵o̵l̵o̵ ̵m̵u̵r̵d̵e̵r̵i̵n̵g̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵m̵ ̵i̵s̵ ̵w̵h̵a̵t̵ ̵s̵e̵t̵s̵ ̵t̵h̵e̵ ̵a̵s̵s̵a̵s̵s̵i̵n̵a̵t̵i̵o̵n̵ ̵s̵q̵u̵a̵d̵ ̵t̵o̵ ̵g̵o̵ ̵a̵w̵o̵l̵.̵ ̵
Click to expand...
isn’t dio canonically pan?
 
CuteAnimeNekoGirl99 said:
I can’t wait to use this in a debate

WHAT ABOUT THE ASS GEL GUYS

isn’t dio canonically pan?
Click to expand...
Dio ***** women, every day, he seems to show a huge preference for woman (Though they're probably a lot less difficult to manipulate, given women in canon find him extremely attractive and willingly let themselves be eaten, his vampiric charm helps with that. Hell the way Abdul describes him, it seems to even low key work on dudes).
But it's stated that, if it would get him something he wanted, he would be totally willing to **** a dude and wouldn't mind probably in cases like it'd somehow help Dio out, whether it be like making him a minion, getting something from said dude, making the dude loyal, etc.

But it's also said, that even though Dio is willing to **** anything (even if he has a large preference), he straight up can't truly love anything or anyone, it isn't in his nature. The closest Dio has to a relationship that isn't pure manipulation is with Pucci, but Pucci is canonically asexual, he has zero lust or desires for anything of that kind, and Pucci not having any semblance of a desire for romance and lust is one of the conditions for him being Dio's friend.

Basically, sexually attracted to women, but doesn't mind ******* dudes if need be. But can't actually bring himself to love anyone.
 
Play Disco Elysium. This is not a suggestion or a request, I will force you to do it. You can literally be an alcoholic, speed-snorting, schizophrenic apocalypse-praising, pinko commie, racist incel, and bisexual cop who also has an appreciation for the fine arts. Best computer roleplaying game outta ten.

thats all ill have to say here because im straight anyways lol lmao
 
I will add it to the list. My backlog grows larger still. that's the game where you can die from sitting on a chair that's too uncomfy right
 
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