LGBT and Gender nonconforming Discussion Thread

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

To be honest, LGBT media and I have a love-hate relationship (as I do with most media in general to be honest) but I can't help but gush about them nonetheless so I made this thread as place to talk about LGBT and gender subversion as depicted in various media, not only limited to novels, anime and manga but also music, movies, dramas, videogames, fanfics, Youtubers along with other web celebrities, models, fanart or basically anything one can think of.

Hey you may want to add a note to this saying that anyone who has issues with LGBT people should stay the **** out. Idk how necessary it is but :v

 

[Antvasima]

I have added an official staff warning to the first post of this thread. Do not modify it please.

 

[DemiiPowa]

Hey you may want to add a note to this saying that anyone who has issues with LGBT people should stay the **** out. Idk how necessary it is but :v

Ah yes the good ol attack with hostility, that'll work

 

[CuteAnimeNekoGirl99]

I have added an official staff warning to the first post of this thread. Do not modify it please.

Thaaaank you ant <3

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

Hey you may want to add a note to this saying that anyone who has issues with LGBT people should stay the **** out. Idk how necessary it is but :v

100% Agree

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

Ah yes the good ol attack with hostility, that'll work

Nah, if they really have problems with LGBT stuff and would only come to spread hate and bigotry, then they can stick their opinions to their butts and go to waste their times in another thread.

 

[DemiiPowa]

Nah, if they really have problem with LGBT stuff and would only come to spread hate and bigotry, then they can stick their opinions to their butts and go to waste their times in other thread.

I guess, I just want us all to be kind to each other smh

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

I guess, I just want us all to be kind to each other smh

And that would be very easy if we restrict people that would only come to hate and start discussions from interacting on this thread, with a warning that they aren't welcome here.

 

[Metalballrun]

It shouldn't be surprising to intolerant people that they are being treated with intolerance by the people they're not tolerating. Since intolerance is kinda what they are doing in the first place.

Victims of bigotry shouldn't be expected to entertain bigots unlike what some of the staff are suggesting here.

 

[RandomGuy2345]

It shouldn't be surprising to intolerant people that they are being treated with intolerance by the people they're not tolerating. Since intolerance is kinda what they are doing in the first place.

Too much of the word "intolerant/intolerance" for me to comprehend...

 

[Metalballrun]

Haha that's intentional, you'll get it if you read it slowly.

Well, most discussions would flow really well if one can just stop being a bigot as much as they can avoid being an asshole.

We only need to fight about powerscaling here.

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

It shouldn't be surprising to intolerant people that they are being treated with intolerance by the people they're not tolerating. Since intolerance is kinda what they are doing in the first place.

Victims of bigotry shouldn't be expected to entertain bigots unlike what some of the staff are suggesting here.

Exactly

 

[Mariogoods]

Maybe it is better starting discussing the characters themselves since it is the main uncomplicated topic of the thread. As a person who likes digging old and obscure verses, meeting and feeling the controversial cultural differences and the complicacy of the topic are common for me and even an academic article is incapable of covering and analyzing the complicated topic all. After all, we are here for fun, not for fight.

It seems that some characters from Japanese works are in the borderline of headcanon LGBT and canon LGBT.

By the way, we may forget Undertale, which features many characters (-_-, a fish) fitting for the thread.

 

[ImNot4nUser]

Reminds me of how I almost got into Homestuck because I heard it had LGBT characters,

Average battleboarder alright

dropped in partway through, and got into Touhou like a year later... not sure how different I'd be as a person if I stuck with Homestuck tbh :v

To summarize that alternate timeline to you:

You ran into the same fandom, but with a different name and disguise

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

You ran into the same fandom, but with a different name and disguise

As we all know, Touhou is just Japanese Homestuck :v

 

[Metalballrun]

Well, for those who are legitimately curious or those who want to make a bad attempt at being smart:

Eldritch Beings like the Outer Gods of Cthulhu Mythos will have no changes with their genders.

Gender norms and identities, including modern ones including non-conforming, non-binary, etc., are still well within human thought and concept of genders, and at most it will apply to non-human characters, deity or not, of which such norms and identities are still applicable.

Characters that not only fall way outside our concept of genders, but is detached from human nature and/or way beyond our own reality, naturally cannot and does not conform to that. Beings like Azathoth will have their Genders inapplicable for the same/similar reasons their Age is also the way it is.

(I've seen someone bring this up in a different thread so might as well present my opinion here).

 

[Mariogoods]

As we all know, Touhou is just Japanese Homestuck :v

Touhou reminds me the women-only country from Journey to the West.

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

Stop hibari kun ever heard of it? It is the oldest anime featuring trans

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

As a LGBT person, I can talk about this topic.

I don't mind LGBT stuff in media, actually I love it, HOWEVER, a lot of media tries to overdo it to gain pink money, so we end up having a lot of generic shit without a real meaning just to have LGBT in some aspects because yes (money, of course).

I will say it again, I don't mind LGBT stuff, I love it, be it yaoi, yuri, trans or whatever;

I love a lot of LGBT media, but the mainstream media usually are doing a BAD JOB, and it ends up having the opposite reaction.

EVEN if some of these medias are really trying to help the LGBT community (which I doubt), they are just making the things worse and it isnt helping at all.

Personally I hate most LGBT representations in media as they all feel forced. The only good example of it I have seen is in Nier games.

LGBTQ+ representation is cool to have in a piece of media.

However, if your whole identity and/or personality is that you're gay, or if said representation is shoved down everyone's throats (which is done quite often), then that's where we have an issue.

They're even times when a piece of media portrays a LGBTQ relationship as positive and healthy, but when you look deeper into it, it's actually toxic asf.

Tons of people love Catradora from the 2018 She-Ra reboot, but people seem to glance over the fact that Catra legit tried to destroy the whole world over Adora. That's not a healthy relationship. That's toxic asf.

I feel like Arcane is a great example of good representation. They don't make the fact that they're gay/lesbian/bisexual as their whole identity, and they actually have a character beyond that.

Hey hey there LGBT folks who are have the issue of the media forced this stuff and couldn't handled it well to the point majority of the media get plagued by it
I have an anime recommendation which is the masterpiece of yuri (girl's love) and even as one of the masterpiece of romance manga/anime, it's calles Bloom into You
No forced/shove throat/etc, just the natural flow with an amazing chemistry between Touko and Yuu

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

Hey hey there LGBT folks who are have the issue of the media forced this stuff and couldn't handled it well to the point majority of the media get plagued by it
I have an anime recommendation which is the masterpiece of yuri (girl's love) and even as one of the masterpiece of romance manga/anime, it's calles Bloom into You
No forced/shove throat/etc, just the natural flow with an amazing chemistry between Touko and Yuu

Is decent I guess? But is still just weeb shit, so I'm not interested.
And seeing the word ''forced'' makes me sick.

 

[Darksmash]

Hey hey there LGBT folks who are have the issue of the media forced this stuff and couldn't handled it well to the point majority of the media get plagued by it
I have an anime recommendation which is the masterpiece of yuri (girl's love) and even as one of the masterpiece of romance manga/anime, it's calles Bloom into You
No forced/shove throat/etc, just the natural flow with an amazing chemistry between Touko and Yuu

Not into Yuri but thanks either way

 

[Bernkastelll]

Not into Yuri but thanks either way

are you a yaoi person?

 

[Darksmash]

are you a yaoi person?

I think both yuri and yaoi are fine(prefer the latter though) but I usually don't read/watch something explicitly because of being LGBT oriented. I would rather have it as a sub plot in another genre.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

It's kinda funny that japan can handle the LGBT like fine unlike the western yet this country isn't entirely supporting LGBT so much afaik

 

[CosmicWreck]

It's kinda funny that japan can handle the LGBT like fine unlike the western yet this country isn't entirely supporting LGBT so much afaik

Hello. Thank you for your contribution but I feel I should remind everyone that this is a thread to discuss LGBT in the context of media. LGBT discussions solely to describe or in accordance to the political landscape is against the rules of the site due to the possibility of controversy.

The most I can say on the topic is Japan's legalization of same sex relationships since the late 1800s, its recognition of transgenderism and the LGBT community's constant pushing for more rights has allowed for it to be a strong cornerstone of the provision of LGBT media on the global scale.

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

It's kinda funny that japan can handle the LGBT like fine unlike the western yet this country isn't entirely supporting LGBT so much afaik

And of course, the weeb sucking off of everything from Japan, and ngl, the LGBT+ stuff that Japanese make are mid as hell, the truth is that media is just bad at anything LGBT+ related stuff.

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

The most I can say on the topic is Japan's legalization of same sex relationships since the late 1800s, its recognition of transgenderism and the LGBT community's constant pushing for more rights has allowed for it to be a strong cornerstone of the provision of LGBT media on the global scale.

False, same sex marriage isn't as legal as you think, there's an entire invasive process that those type of people had to do to even married (like apparently having one of them to fully transition, which is awful, and being unable to even show love if one of them have a children that's under 18), and transgender people aren't really as accepted too, they have to follow stupid rules, like only being recognized as the other gender if they made the full transition (surgery), and being unable to be transgender if they have children that are under 18.

 

[CosmicWreck]

False, same sex marriage isn't as legal as you think,

Er...no. It's not legal at all, in fact. The most the Japanese homosexual couples get are certificates.

By "legal" I meant in the sense that they were no longer prosecuted by the law when suspected of being in general romantic and sexual relationships with those of the same sex. Not in the sense that they have all the rights as those of heterosexuals couples. Japan is still a long way from that (and notice, by giving a definite timeline I automatically ruled out marriage as a concern since that particular clause hasn't been dealt with then).

there's an entire invasive process that those type of people had to do to even married (like apparently having one of them to fully transition, which is awful, and being unable to even show love if one of them have a children that's under 18),

Not sure who you're referring to but there was probably an invasive transition process because Japan doesn't do same sex marriage like I said, so if they wanted to get married they would have had to change their sex.

and transgender people aren't really as accepted too, they have to follow stupid rules, like only being recognized as the other gender if they made the full transition (surgery), and being unable to be transgender if they have children that are under 18.

I know. Fair.

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

Er...no. It's not legal at all, in fact. The most the Japanese homosexual couples get are certificates.

By "legal" I meant in the sense that they were no longer prosecuted by the law when suspected of being in general romantic and sexual relationships with those of the same sex. Not in the sense that they have all the rights as those of heterosexuals couples. Japan is still a long way from that (and notice, by giving a definite timeline I automatically ruled out marriage as a concern since that particular clause hasn't been dealt with then).

Then what was your point?

Not sure who you're referring to but there was probably an invasive transition process because Japan doesn't do same sex marriage like I said, so if they wanted to get married they would have had to change their sex.

And that's insanely ****** up, so I can't see your pathetic attempts as arguments

I know. Fair.

Then none of what you have say before was true, and you're just sucking off Japan, Japan is far from being even close to be fair with LGBT+ stuff.

 

[Bernkastelll]

Then what was your point?

And that's insanely ****** up, so I can't see your pathetic attempts as arguments

Then none of what you have say before was true, and you're just sucking off Japan, Japan is far from being even close to be fair with LGBT+ stuff.

a lot of countries outside of the West don't like LGBT

 

[CosmicWreck]

Then what was your point?

My point was, although not exactly as good as countries like Taiwan, Japan is still leagues above countries like Afghanistan, Iran and Saudi Arabi where LGBT identifications are literally deserving of death penalties.

And that's insanely ****** up, so I can't see your pathetic attempts as arguments

It's not an argument. It's an explanation, obviously. Same sex marriage is not a thing in Japan.

Then none of what you have say before was true, and you're just sucking off Japan, Japan is far from being even close to be fair with LGBT+ stuff.

I disagree.

1. Legality is generally treated as separate from the recognition of same sex marriage for the obvious reason that even without marriage, in countries that outlaw homosexuality it's grounds for arrest to even have homosexual media, or being evidenced that someone is attracted to the opposite sex.
2. Even with its restrictions transgenderism in Japan is a valid identification, something that can't be said for most asian (and contrary to popular belief) as well as many western countries like the Caribbean that don't recognize it at all.

3. Highlighting this because it's important. I never said that Japan was "fair" with LGBT stuff. The whole point of my post was that their culture and laws allow/encourage them to be able to churn out LGBT stuff as a major media producer pertaining to that genre which is a whole different ballpark, not to mention, is part of the quote that you ignored. This is particularly obvious in comparison to countries like China where LGBT stuff in general tend to disappear.​

4. As I stated in my prior post, Japan has activists who are strongly supportive of LGBT rights which is an objectively true statement and not just in comparison to asian countries like China where many organizations bowed to the hardships under the rule of the new Chinese legislation that promote bigotry and censorship.

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

My point was, although not exactly as good as countries like Taiwan, Japan is still leagues above countries like Afghanistan, Iran and Saudi Arabi where LGBT identifications are literally deserving of death penalties.

It's not an argument. It's an explanation, obviously. Same sex marriage is not a thing in Japan.

I disagree.

1. Legality is generally treated as separate from the recognition of same sex marriage for the obvious reason that even without marriage, in countries that outlaw homosexuality it's grounds for arrest to even have homosexual media, or being evidenced that someone is attracted to the opposite sex.
2. Even with its restrictions transgenderism in Japan is a valid identification, something that can't be said for most asian (and contrary to popular belief) as well as many western countries like the Caribbean that don't recognize it at all.

3. Highlighting this because it's important. I never said that Japan was "fair" with LGBT stuff. The whole point of my post was that their culture and laws allow/encourage them to be able to churn out LGBT stuff as a major media producer pertaining to that genre which is a whole different ballpark, not to mention, is part of the quote that you ignored. This is particularly obvious in comparison to countries like China where LGBT stuff in general tend to disappear.​

4. As I stated in my prior post, Japan has activists who are strongly supportive of LGBT rights which is an objectively true statement and not just in comparison to asian countries like China where many organizations bowed to the hardships under the rule of the new Chinese legislation that promote bigotry and censorship.

Nah, Japan is still an overrated country with nothing special, and no, I refuse to acknowledge them as supposedly ''LGBT friendly'', because they're not, Japan is still a massively conservative country full of bigoted laws

 

[CosmicWreck]

Nah, Japan is still an overrated country with nothing special, and no, I refuse to acknowledge them as supposedly ''LGBT friendly'', because they're not, Japan is still a massively conservative country full of bigoted laws

And I respect your opinion. Nonetheless, as I've already pointed out, (twice, even) this is not the place to discuss things of such a political nature. My wall is always open however.

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

And I respect your opinion. Nonetheless, as I've already pointed out, (twice, even) this is not the place to discuss things of such a political nature. My wall is always open however.

Y'all literally don't discuss anything on this thread, so what's the point of still having it open?

 

[CosmicWreck]

Y'all literally don't discuss anything on this thread, so what's the point of still having it open?

The topic is broad enough, so I don't really see the need to give a hard deadline to it. I will just close it when I get bored of it, which is how most general discussion threads close (or if it gets replaced by a better thread).

 

[TheGreatMaster12]

The topic is broad enough, so I don't really see the need to give a hard deadline to it. I will just close it when I get bored of it, which is how most general discussion threads close (or if it gets replaced by a better thread).

Nah, just do it now, nobody is interested on this thread, no one has actually interacted with it for months, and considering the subject of the thread and the type of users that make the majority of the community on this site... this thread wouldn't have any activity

 

[Damage3245]

Closing at the OP's request.