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Leviathan vs Groudon

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Alright, I'm gonna break down how we treat moves here. First U gotta know about the different types: Grass, Fire, Ground, Flame, Electric, Water, Rock, Flying, Ice, Normal, Bug, Ghost, Fighting & Dragon... Don't forget about Psychic!

Kudos to those who get the reference ovo

Grass = Plant & Solar manipulation

Fire = Fire, Magma, Heat, Nuclear(maybe?), Explosion(unlikely) & Lava Manipulation

Ground = Earth & Sand Manipulation

Electric = duh

Water = duh

Rock = Attacks that involve rocks hitting the target (that aren't on fire)

Flying = Air Manipulation & attacks using wings

Ice = duh

Normal = Regular punches and kicks

Bug = N/A (maybe normal attacks from bugs)

Ghost = Soul, Curse & occasionally Darkness Manipulation. Antimatter Manipulation if you're a god tier.

Fighting = N/A. People might say martial arts, but most punching and kicking moves are of other types, mostly normal. Some people might say chi, but Pokemon's equivalent is Infinite Energy, which has no specific type. Even if you wanna say its equivalent is aura due to Lucario and M08, it's been seen being fighting, dragon, psychic, and even dark type.

Dragon = N/A. Time & Spatial Manipulation if you're a god tier, but other than that...

Psychic = Mind & Memory Manipulation, Telekinesis, Precognition, Magic, Telepathy, & (maybe) some forms of Reality Warping. Maybe others. Psychic is both easy and hard to determine.

(oh, and Poison, Dark, Steel, and Fairy. And Flame's not a thing)

Poison = Poison, Smoke(maybe?), & Acid Manipulation

Dark = Darkness Manipulation & sneak attacks/underhanded tactics

Steel = Metal Manipulation. Attacks with metal weapons (i.e.: spears, non-explosive guns, swords, brass knuckles, etc.)

Fairy = N/A
 
Fairy is more Light Manipulation and Air Manipulation

Ghost isn't Soul Manipulation. It's more Darkness or Phantasm Manipulation....whatever the **** a phantasm is.
 
Dragonmasterxyz said:
When Final Fantasy pulls a Digimon. Pokemon can't catch a break.
Click to expand...
Many of the FF profiles are missing abilities. I recently made a Zeromus revision and now a Leviathan. Im plannig on adding more missing stuff.
 
All those walls of text, for nothing...

@Cal

Fire can also be Hellfire Manipulation

@Dragon

C U R S E
 
Phoenix821 said:
If Death manipulation gets added I might switch my vote to Leviathan
Click to expand...
I mean:

Final Fantasy III III

White summoning: Demon Eye - Instant Death if successful. Black summoning: Cyclone - deals wind-elemental damage to all enemies. High summoning: Tidal Wave - deals water-elemental damage to all enemies
 
@PaChi

I've added Demon Eye and Cyclone to Leviathan's profile.

Also, Leviathan's first move is spamming the hell out of Tidal Wave. Yes, Drought halves the power of Water-type moves, but Groudon still has a 4x weakness to water, so it isn't as significant as you might think.
 
@Dragon

Given how many fire attacks he uses I forgot. Still, my point stands and Groudon will be taking a ton of damage still from all directions.
 
@Repp

Can you check the rest of the stuff in the CRT? Please? Thank you!
 
I mean, I agree with what you tried to do, but it's a losing battle anyway. The types overlap too much.

Like, most physical typings, Flying especially, excluding Wind, what exactly defines a "Wing" in a fight? I mean, does it have to Actually be a wing, or can I use my open hand or a cape?

And... Precipice Blades summons Rocks from the ground like Stone Edge, doesn't it...? So... What's the difference between Rock and Ground actually. Aren't sand grains just little rocks? And flying types... Immune to Ground. B-but what happens when I manipulate earth into a stone pillar that hits a Delibird or a Dodrio...? Are they immune or not-- because they're only immune due to avoiding the ground shenanigans, but Precipice Blades looks exactly like Stone Edge and yet--

You get the point. Anyway...

I vote Leviathan still.
 
Counting votes:

Earth: 5 (Cal, Kukui, Phoenix, 22Easy, Quagsire)

Water: 3 (Dragon, Amexim, Repp?)
 
Totally not bait

Wanna rethink your vote?
 
I'm voting for Leviathan due to time manipulation, the ability to outlast through healing that doesn't put him to sleep, as well as petrification hax.

Leviathan can also counter Drought by bringing in a storm.
 
You you can petrify an earth type? Huh, weird.
 
btw ground types can be petrified, they just aren't affected by electricity.
 
Now its 3-6

@Repp Are you fine with the additions?
 
I almost forgot to respond to this, though for my sake, I'm acting as if Leviathan just didn't get a massive buff.

Also, edited the Types thing. (I'm upset that no one mentioned my 2 B A Master reference. I thought y'all grew up in the '90s ovo)

Since when does Groudon get Thunder naturally? Also Groudon has to use Thunder out of all his other moves. Not to mention once again Slowga and soon Haste which are temporal powers giving Leviathan an edge.

Pokemon Adventures, boi.

Yet Blizzaga can also put out flames as well.

Solar Beam, Hyper Beam, etc.

Still no counter for Slowga or Haste that allow Leviathan to get multiple hits in before Groudon even gets the idea to boost his stats.

Like you said to me about Thunder, Leviathan has to use Slowga instead of attacking

Groudon's ability is constantly healing in sand or lava right? Contrary to popular belief, Groudon is not always in Lava or sand. This means depending on the circumstances, this healing can be null and void.

Groudon likes making the ground magma before the battle even begins. He starts in a volcano in Ruby, he's standing on a molten "island" in Emerald.


You literally said that Leviathan is older earlier. But now it isn't. Depending on the situation you seem to change up your points. Not to mention, fighting Kyogre is nice, but over the years Leviathan objectively has fought more variety than Groudon. Especially seeing as for awhile Groudon has been asleep.

You said "Just as old, if not older". I answered based on the first half of the question. Also, when Leviathan's fought, it's for a few minutes, and he's testing the opponent (don't quote me on this). And when he's summoned, it's for a few seconds to send out an attack.

Same effect, but the cause here makes all the difference. There is a stark difference between slowing someone down in time than slowing someone down with statistics reduction. Unless now Groudon can bypass Time Slow by speed buff now. Regardless of how it's treated in FF, Time Slow is still Time Slow. Something no one other than Dialga has in Pokemon. Unless you can show me Groudon speed boosting his way out of Time Slow. You can speed up all you want, it doesn't accelerate your time.

I mean, speed buff does kinda counter time slow. That's how Goku beat Bayonetta back before I made that speed equalized thread. You have enough speed and time slow has to be enough to affect the faster opponent. And once again, correct me if I'm wrong, but Slow doesn't slow to a crawl, does it? It's like, half or a quarter temporal drop? Regardless, Slowga is only available to Leviathan in FF XI. This is Leviathan in III, V, and XIV.

...I probably got ninja'd hard.
 
I'm not even gonna waste time countering everything as it no longer matters. ovo
 
Have you seen the new abilities? @Cal

Also, @Cal I dont think we should treat Leviathan (or any FF profile except maybe some exceptions) like "it has only this abilities in this game" as we dont treat Pokemon like "This moveset is available only Gen III onwards".
 
I mean...you're right. I did say that I wasn't accounting for upgrades lol. I just posted that for fun.
 
Poor Groudon it put up a good fight but it just couldn't contend with his opponent getting upgraded mid fight.
 
PaChi2 said:
Have you seen the new abilities? @Cal

Also, @Cal I dont think we should treat Leviathan (or any FF profile except maybe some exceptions) like "it has only this abilities in this game" as we dont treat Pokemon like "This moveset is available only Gen III onwards".
Click to expand...
Just saw this, and I agree (though I have to actively composite Mewtwo when I'm using the 5-A Shadow Mewtwo). I was just going by the profile, which states that the first tab was FFIII, FFV, and FFXIV.
 
We organize the keys by games because each game has different powerlevels, ya know.

Also, 7 votes for Leviathan.
 
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