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Arts have bigger range and wider areas, so that doesn't prove reinstatement. I'll try asking my friend if Daybreak 1 and 2 mentions anything though.
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Legend of Heroes/Trails/Falcom Verse Creation & Discussion Thread
- Thread starter ShadowWhoWalks
- Start date
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Yes but these statements are usually made when Single target or very small AOE arts are avaliable. But fair enough. Though I'm not sure Tio's statement is a retcon.
Like I mentioned, magic evasion quartz becomes available in Cold Steel as the only way to dodge arts + We know quartz are canonic stat buffs. So it could be less; it's a retcon and more Quartz made it less true.
ultimatly if Arts are still deemed to just be able to miss that'fine by me. I just figure we'd go over every argument possible.
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Oh yeah I found another feat that more or less backs up the cosmic scale. Shizuna just cuts the moon in half in her s-craft. (note that it goes from a full moon to a half moon. And this isn't a visual error or anything either, as the s-craft description references this. "Cleaves through everything in the night―even the moon.") While it's absoutely not the best feat in the verse (Phantasma's creation, Ishmelga's S-craft, Lost genesis, Sky the 3rd's boss own planet bust, And the potential black holes created by the vanders) It does help provide a supporting feat. (Like emma's multi-continental s-craft)
Oh there's also this beastiary description "Once revered as a deity, turned into a mindless murderer by the fortress. Its mace can crush even stars." Backing up lost genesis' star level power.
Oh yes another feat I wanted other's opinions on, So tl:dr There's a monster in the Luna sanctuary with this description, "A shrine monster that devours interdimensional walls, writhing with such force that the whole shrine shakes."
This sounds like basic building shaking. But in context, The Luna sanctuary has an entire pocket dimesnion with a moon in it. Should that count as shaking the entier dimension (Since it's shaking the whole shrine) or? (note clearly this isn't going to get any higher then literally anything else I've mentioned I just thought I'd ask.)
Oh there's also this beastiary description "Once revered as a deity, turned into a mindless murderer by the fortress. Its mace can crush even stars." Backing up lost genesis' star level power.
Oh yes another feat I wanted other's opinions on, So tl:dr There's a monster in the Luna sanctuary with this description, "A shrine monster that devours interdimensional walls, writhing with such force that the whole shrine shakes."
This sounds like basic building shaking. But in context, The Luna sanctuary has an entire pocket dimesnion with a moon in it. Should that count as shaking the entier dimension (Since it's shaking the whole shrine) or? (note clearly this isn't going to get any higher then literally anything else I've mentioned I just thought I'd ask.)
Tomfer
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Yeah, it can be used as a supporting feat. (Would still be nice if someone calculated)
I'm iffy on that, neutral for now.
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Agreed, I'd try to do it myself but Lol I'm not quite that good at math and am afraid of inflaiting the resaults somehow. I'd be surprised if this didn't at least get something like at least multicontinental. But I'd imagine Moon level or something like that.
this video actually gives better look, and I was gonna mention the Ke but it looks like half the moon just straight up vanishes. So not sure if KE is applicable here. But I'm pretty sure the baseline of overcoming the moons GBE should be applicable no matter what?
Completely understandable, not like it needs to be accepted with the other beastiary entry I mentioned + Shizuna's moonslice.
Tomfer
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Same, if I knew how to properly calculate, I'd, unironically, calc as many feats as possible to get this verse going.
If anything, I believe this would upgrade mid tiers, since Shizuna seems to be around that level.
If someone more knowledgeable than me agrees, I wouldn't be against it.
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Not quite sure I agree with that, considering from everything I know about Shizuna she generally bodies or superior too everyone she fight's, and was even able to snap rean's sword in the brief glimps of her we got in reverie..
Then again Trail's is beyond a headache in the power sclaing department, since some people just aren't consistant in that.
Tomfer
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I use comic book rules for Trails. Consistencies and quantity of feats >>> anything else.
Rean possess far better and far more feats than Shizuna, so obviously I'll put him above her, far far above her. It also doesn't help the fact that she's quite new and there's no baseline for her yet.
So I'd actually hold on making profiles from the Calvard saga. One thing going on for her is the fact that she's a Divine Blade, but I personally take this more of a skill feat than anything AP-wise (but people may disagree with me).
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While I can get behind consistancies. I feel like quality of feats is a bit more hard to measure. Especially since there are character's who live off hype, and statements of their past skills.
well
I feel like with Kai no Kisekai just straight up having them duel which they where more or less even on (though it was interupted before a resault could be called). Plus just her general hype and her copying Rean's spirit unification even if it's an imperfect copy, I think it is safe to scale her in the ballpark Rean.
I kinda disagree with that, especially since there are several character's from past games that appear in it's story and help or fight the main cast. (I think Daybreak is like the most interconnected "first game" in a series.) but waiting for all 3 eventually 4 games to be out in english probably would help via spoilers.
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Wait I may have spoken too soon in dismissing KE. Looking frame by frame there IS like 1 or 2 frames where you can see the moon's pieces move apart.
napkin math and eyeballing it, it looks to be like anywhere from Multi continental to small planet level.
(also side note, the speed the slash got to the moon is actually probably decently high. I think the entire slash takes 3 frames to hit the moon from the time the Shizuna sheaths her sword to the slash appearing to the moon splitting. Meaning the slash should be around 10 times FTL. And this SHOULD be scalable to speed unlike Emma's. considering she's slashing at this speed, and people can react to her attacks. rather then summoning a spell.)
Granted this is rather unnecesarry considering the MFTL+ Lost genesis. But still.
napkin math and eyeballing it, it looks to be like anywhere from Multi continental to small planet level.
(also side note, the speed the slash got to the moon is actually probably decently high. I think the entire slash takes 3 frames to hit the moon from the time the Shizuna sheaths her sword to the slash appearing to the moon splitting. Meaning the slash should be around 10 times FTL. And this SHOULD be scalable to speed unlike Emma's. considering she's slashing at this speed, and people can react to her attacks. rather then summoning a spell.)
Granted this is rather unnecesarry considering the MFTL+ Lost genesis. But still.
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Though oh boy, Kai no kisekai might lead to some intersting scalings.
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Because I was bored, I uh tried my hand at Shizuna's moon slice. (this is probably wrong again I don't do calculation's but I figure this might get someone's attention)
using the diameter of the moon since it seems to stay mostly intact, (Which I messured to be 446 pixels) the portion of the moon that moves before vanishing moves 33 Pixels.
so 2,159.1 mi / 446 = 4.84103139 miles
33 pixels = 159.754036 miles
it basically moves in 1 frame. so 0.04 seconds for time frame = 6427479.98 m / s
or Sub-reletivistic speeds. the mass of the moon is 1.61988463e+23, but only half of it moves so 8.0994232e+22
so Kenetic energy (I used a reletivistic energy calculator since sub-reletivistic speeds) = 1.81438471888464113498158154e+26 tons of tnt. Or 181 Yottatons.
it also takes about 3 frames for her slice to go from off screen to the moon being split, so the speed of her actual attack is 238,900 miles / .12 seconds = 3203935680 m / s or 10.6 c.
using the diameter of the moon since it seems to stay mostly intact, (Which I messured to be 446 pixels) the portion of the moon that moves before vanishing moves 33 Pixels.
so 2,159.1 mi / 446 = 4.84103139 miles
33 pixels = 159.754036 miles
it basically moves in 1 frame. so 0.04 seconds for time frame = 6427479.98 m / s
or Sub-reletivistic speeds. the mass of the moon is 1.61988463e+23, but only half of it moves so 8.0994232e+22
so Kenetic energy (I used a reletivistic energy calculator since sub-reletivistic speeds) = 1.81438471888464113498158154e+26 tons of tnt. Or 181 Yottatons.
it also takes about 3 frames for her slice to go from off screen to the moon being split, so the speed of her actual attack is 238,900 miles / .12 seconds = 3203935680 m / s or 10.6 c.
Tomfer
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If I were you, I'd just post it on a blog and ask a calc member to evaluate it. If they find something wrong, they'd just say it outright and make you correct it, effectively helping you get this done.
And 5-A? That's higher than I expected.
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Same, but at the same time it makes sense if it's even close to correct. Kenetic energy when moving such large objects at high speeds is bound to get high resaults.
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as for a blog, I'll try making one later. I know it can take a lot of effort to get calculation's seen and It's something I'm not up for atm.
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Never mind I'm wrong it'll probably be way more impressive... or hit ftl ke and thus inapplicable beyond GBE.
Found this video that gives the best view of the moon in the background possible... the moon moves much further then I thought it did. like holy crap. Shizuna calm down.
Found this video that gives the best view of the moon in the background possible... the moon moves much further then I thought it did. like holy crap. Shizuna calm down.
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Tried making that shizuna blog post. MEssed up and accidentally added a punctuation mark at the end because it's a habit i've develouped. Wonderful.
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Oh right I'm super excited for daybreak 2. Even if that one's seen some mixed receptin.
Tomfer
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Nope, lmao. Closest thing is one of Rean who's only 40% done.
Scottycj256/SandboxReanSchwarzer
vsbattles.fandom.com
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I mean if there's anything that's needed as long as it isn't calculation or the like focused I can try helping.
Tomfer
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There's a lot, especially scans. Just look at the orbal arts, there's 0 scans or refs. That's why I said before we should make a orbal page since everyone in the verse can use and it make things easier in the future.
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I mean orbal arts is easy for scans. at least to get the descritpions. the trails wiki has them all listed down. But I also have cold steel 1,2 and 4 installed if I need to get teh stuff for them.
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Do you just need scans of descriptions or?
Tomfer
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The problem is that this is the bare-minimum, lmao. It's no biggy and is easily obtainable, so thanks for offering to gather them.
The ideal should be the scans of the orbals being used, not just scan of descriptions. It would be even better with both.
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Arts for Cold steel 2 (cold steel 1 has the same arts.)
Arts for cold steel 3
Lost Arts for Cold steel 4 (the only exclusive arts)
Since the descriptions are generally easy to find I just found video's. (though i can upload several screenshots of the descriptions if need be.) I found these on youtube and for the most part I can't think of anything they are missing. At least anything that isn't Releven to Rean. (there are a few enemy exclusive arts. But we can worry about those when we create the universal "orbment technology" page.)
Additionally
There needs to be a seperation between Cold steel 1/2 and 3/4's abilities: as typically new more advanced orbments can not accept older quartz. While this doesn't lead to vastly different abilities, it does mean Rean in cold steel 3/4 doesn't have abilities such as vanish, or the soul manipulation present in his Cold steel 1/2 arts. But does have Charm which has them help enemies and attack allies, and Albon's wolf ability to negate positive stat changes. Which includes barriers, statistic amplification, time manipulation (Since it negates the speed of clock up which is speeding them up via time manipulation),
And for additional info:
here's some additional scans for orbments and Orbal arts that might be helpful or might not mean anything beyond just explaining the abilities.
Orbaments enhance physical capabilities, orbal energy restores overtime, orbal arts are a type of magic, and physical and magical durability might be different since enemeis resistant to physical attacks are usually pretty weak against arts.
i know one screenshot is from daybreak, but similar statements are made through the series. Rean in cold steel 2 see's an enemy that would resist his sword slashes, so he imediatly jumps to using orbal arts. it was just easier to grab Daybreak's more direct statement.
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Tomfer
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Only the most powerful/relevant ones are worth doing so.
Honestly, if anything, I'm planning on that first.
Agree. I also think we should separate the different types of orbment too since they all have a different thingy that alters gameplay.
"The requested page could not be found" Dead scan.
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I assume we should just knock out rean's page first, and then use that as a basis for Orbment technology page. especially when unique arts are like... really really rare. And a pain in the butt to trigger. since they are enemy exclusive. (though there is a question on if they even need to be recorded in full. Vs just General abilities arts give.)
Plus most arts have hax or status effects attached to them that are relevent to mention.
fixed it I believe.
Tomfer
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Yeah, it's better if we
Meh, I think it's still worth something.
Nice.
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if you need anything else lmk.
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Though I am curious on people's thoughts on these speed feats I mentioned here. mostly the flash grenade one.
should it just be calculated as blocking or?
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Still curious if there's anything I can do for Rean's profile. I have cold steel 1 through reverie. (And daybreak)
Speaking of Daybreak, I feel like it's Combat orbment abilities might be a bit longer then usual. though not gonna go into detail yet. At leats not until Rean's profile is made.
Speaking of Daybreak, I feel like it's Combat orbment abilities might be a bit longer then usual. though not gonna go into detail yet. At leats not until Rean's profile is made.
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oh btw a supporting feat to FTL stuff. (maybe) Elaine's Kaleido Fencer craft is just flat out stated to be faster than light.
"Halts foes with a thrust, followed by a faster-than-light strike."
only issue is I'm not certain if the original japanese text calls it ftl. but you know. I'd assume it does.
This debatably scales to Sara, Zin, and basically any a-rank bracer. Even at their earlier points. Cause Elaine is blatently stated to not be worthy of A-rank in Reverie.
"Halts foes with a thrust, followed by a faster-than-light strike."
only issue is I'm not certain if the original japanese text calls it ftl. but you know. I'd assume it does.
This debatably scales to Sara, Zin, and basically any a-rank bracer. Even at their earlier points. Cause Elaine is blatently stated to not be worthy of A-rank in Reverie.
