Legend of Heroes/Trails/Falcom Verse Creation & Discussion Thread

[Accelerate420]

Eh Fair? but at the same time even in cold steel 3 it's straight up said that if an enemy is hard to hit, you should use arts on them. Not a direct "arts can't miss" statement, but definatly means arts are better to use against hard to hit enemies.

Arts have bigger range and wider areas, so that doesn't prove reinstatement. I'll try asking my friend if Daybreak 1 and 2 mentions anything though.

 

[Jesterofgames]

Arts have bigger range and wider areas, so that doesn't prove reinstatement. I'll try asking my friend if Daybreak 1 and 2 mentions anything though.

Yes but these statements are usually made when Single target or very small AOE arts are avaliable. But fair enough. Though I'm not sure Tio's statement is a retcon.
Like I mentioned, magic evasion quartz becomes available in Cold Steel as the only way to dodge arts + We know quartz are canonic stat buffs. So it could be less; it's a retcon and more Quartz made it less true.

ultimatly if Arts are still deemed to just be able to miss that'fine by me. I just figure we'd go over every argument possible.

 

[Jesterofgames]

Oh yeah I found another feat that more or less backs up the cosmic scale. Shizuna just cuts the moon in half in her s-craft. (note that it goes from a full moon to a half moon. And this isn't a visual error or anything either, as the s-craft description references this. "Cleaves through everything in the night―even the moon.") While it's absoutely not the best feat in the verse (Phantasma's creation, Ishmelga's S-craft, Lost genesis, Sky the 3rd's boss own planet bust, And the potential black holes created by the vanders) It does help provide a supporting feat. (Like emma's multi-continental s-craft)
Oh there's also this beastiary description "Once revered as a deity, turned into a mindless murderer by the fortress. Its mace can crush even stars." Backing up lost genesis' star level power.

Oh yes another feat I wanted other's opinions on, So tl:dr There's a monster in the Luna sanctuary with this description, "A shrine monster that devours interdimensional walls, writhing with such force that the whole shrine shakes."
This sounds like basic building shaking. But in context, The Luna sanctuary has an entire pocket dimesnion with a moon in it. Should that count as shaking the entier dimension (Since it's shaking the whole shrine) or? (note clearly this isn't going to get any higher then literally anything else I've mentioned I just thought I'd ask.)

 

[Tomfer]

Shizuna just cuts the moon in half in her s-craft. (note that it goes from a full moon to a half moon. And this isn't a visual error or anything either, as the s-craft description references this. "Cleaves through everything in the night―even the moon.") While it's absoutely not the best feat in the verse (Phantasma's creation, Ishmelga's S-craft, Lost genesis, Sky the 3rd's boss own planet bust, And the potential black holes created by the vanders) It does help provide a supporting feat. (Like emma's multi-continental s-craft)

Yeah, it can be used as a supporting feat. (Would still be nice if someone calculated)

This sounds like basic building shaking. But in context, The Luna sanctuary has an entire pocket dimesnion with a moon in it. Should that count as shaking the entier dimension (Since it's shaking the whole shrine) or? (note clearly this isn't going to get any higher then literally anything else I've mentioned I just thought I'd ask.)

I'm iffy on that, neutral for now.

 

[Jesterofgames]

Yeah, it can be used as a supporting feat. (Would still be nice if someone calculated)

Agreed, I'd try to do it myself but Lol I'm not quite that good at math and am afraid of inflaiting the resaults somehow. I'd be surprised if this didn't at least get something like at least multicontinental. But I'd imagine Moon level or something like that.

this video actually gives better look, and I was gonna mention the Ke but it looks like half the moon just straight up vanishes. So not sure if KE is applicable here. But I'm pretty sure the baseline of overcoming the moons GBE should be applicable no matter what?

I'm iffy on that, neutral for now.

Completely understandable, not like it needs to be accepted with the other beastiary entry I mentioned + Shizuna's moonslice.

 

[Tomfer]

Agreed, I'd try to do it myself but Lol I'm not quite that good at math and am afraid of inflaiting the resaults somehow.

Same, if I knew how to properly calculate, I'd, unironically, calc as many feats as possible to get this verse going.

I'd be surprised if this didn't at least get something like at least multicontinental. But I'd imagine Moon level or something like that.

If anything, I believe this would upgrade mid tiers, since Shizuna seems to be around that level.

Completely understandable, not like it needs to be accepted with the other beastiary entry I mentioned + Shizuna's moonslice.

If someone more knowledgeable than me agrees, I wouldn't be against it.

 

[Jesterofgames]

If anything, I believe this would upgrade mid tiers, since Shizuna seems to be around that level.

Not quite sure I agree with that, considering from everything I know about Shizuna she generally bodies or superior too everyone she fight's, and was even able to snap rean's sword in the brief glimps of her we got in reverie..
Then again Trail's is beyond a headache in the power sclaing department, since some people just aren't consistant in that.

 

[Tomfer]

Not quite sure I agree with that, considering from everything I know about Shizuna she generally bodies or superior too everyone she fight's, and was even able to snap rean's sword in the brief glimps of her we got in reverie..
Then again Trail's is beyond a headache in the power sclaing department, since some people just aren't consistant in that.

I use comic book rules for Trails. Consistencies and quantity of feats >>> anything else.

Rean possess far better and far more feats than Shizuna, so obviously I'll put him above her, far far above her. It also doesn't help the fact that she's quite new and there's no baseline for her yet.

So I'd actually hold on making profiles from the Calvard saga. One thing going on for her is the fact that she's a Divine Blade, but I personally take this more of a skill feat than anything AP-wise (but people may disagree with me).

 

[Jesterofgames]

I use comic book rules for Trails. Consistencies and quantity of feats >>> anything else.

While I can get behind consistancies. I feel like quality of feats is a bit more hard to measure. Especially since there are character's who live off hype, and statements of their past skills.

Rean possess far better and far more feats than Shizuna, so obviously I'll put him above her, far far above her. It also doesn't help the fact that she's quite new and there's no baseline for her yet.

well

Spoiler: Spoiler's for Kai no kisekai

I feel like with Kai no Kisekai just straight up having them duel which they where more or less even on (though it was interupted before a resault could be called). Plus just her general hype and her copying Rean's spirit unification even if it's an imperfect copy, I think it is safe to scale her in the ballpark Rean.

So I'd actually hold on making profiles from the Calvard saga. One thing going on for her is the fact that she's a Divine Blade, but I personally take this more of a skill feat than anything AP-wise (but people may disagree with me).

I kinda disagree with that, especially since there are several character's from past games that appear in it's story and help or fight the main cast. (I think Daybreak is like the most interconnected "first game" in a series.) but waiting for all 3 eventually 4 games to be out in english probably would help via spoilers.

 

[Jesterofgames]

Wait I may have spoken too soon in dismissing KE. Looking frame by frame there IS like 1 or 2 frames where you can see the moon's pieces move apart.
napkin math and eyeballing it, it looks to be like anywhere from Multi continental to small planet level.

(also side note, the speed the slash got to the moon is actually probably decently high. I think the entire slash takes 3 frames to hit the moon from the time the Shizuna sheaths her sword to the slash appearing to the moon splitting. Meaning the slash should be around 10 times FTL. And this SHOULD be scalable to speed unlike Emma's. considering she's slashing at this speed, and people can react to her attacks. rather then summoning a spell.)
Granted this is rather unnecesarry considering the MFTL+ Lost genesis. But still.

 

[Jesterofgames]

Though oh boy, Kai no kisekai might lead to some intersting scalings.

 

[Jesterofgames]

Because I was bored, I uh tried my hand at Shizuna's moon slice. (this is probably wrong again I don't do calculation's but I figure this might get someone's attention)
using the diameter of the moon since it seems to stay mostly intact, (Which I messured to be 446 pixels) the portion of the moon that moves before vanishing moves 33 Pixels.


so 2,159.1 mi / 446 = 4.84103139 miles
33 pixels = 159.754036 miles
it basically moves in 1 frame. so 0.04 seconds for time frame = 6427479.98 m / s
or Sub-reletivistic speeds. the mass of the moon is 1.61988463e+23, but only half of it moves so 8.0994232e+22

so Kenetic energy (I used a reletivistic energy calculator since sub-reletivistic speeds) = 1.81438471888464113498158154e+26 tons of tnt. Or 181 Yottatons.

it also takes about 3 frames for her slice to go from off screen to the moon being split, so the speed of her actual attack is 238,900 miles / .12 seconds = 3203935680 m / s or 10.6 c.

 

[Tomfer]

Because I was bored, I uh tried my hand at Shizuna's moon slice. (this is probably wrong again I don't do calculation's but I figure this might get someone's attention)
using the diameter of the moon since it seems to stay mostly intact, (Which I messured to be 446 pixels) the portion of the moon that moves before vanishing moves 33 Pixels.


so 2,159.1 mi / 446 = 4.84103139 miles
33 pixels = 159.754036 miles
it basically moves in 1 frame. so 0.04 seconds for time frame = 6427479.98 m / s
or Sub-reletivistic speeds. the mass of the moon is 1.61988463e+23, but only half of it moves so 8.0994232e+22

so Kenetic energy (I used a reletivistic energy calculator since sub-reletivistic speeds) = 1.81438471888464113498158154e+26 tons of tnt. Or 181 Yottatons.

it also takes about 3 frames for her slice to go from off screen to the moon being split, so the speed of her actual attack is 238,900 miles / .12 seconds = 3203935680 m / s or 10.6 c.

If I were you, I'd just post it on a blog and ask a calc member to evaluate it. If they find something wrong, they'd just say it outright and make you correct it, effectively helping you get this done.

so Kenetic energy (I used a reletivistic energy calculator since sub-reletivistic speeds) = 1.81438471888464113498158154e+26 tons of tnt. Or 181 Yottatons.

And 5-A? That's higher than I expected.

 

[Jesterofgames]

And 5-A? That's higher than I expected.

Same, but at the same time it makes sense if it's even close to correct. Kenetic energy when moving such large objects at high speeds is bound to get high resaults.

 

[Jesterofgames]

as for a blog, I'll try making one later. I know it can take a lot of effort to get calculation's seen and It's something I'm not up for atm.

 

[Jesterofgames]

Never mind I'm wrong it'll probably be way more impressive... or hit ftl ke and thus inapplicable beyond GBE.
Found this video that gives the best view of the moon in the background possible... the moon moves much further then I thought it did. like holy crap. Shizuna calm down.