Kono Subarashii speed scaling & revisions

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

To show that it's still canon, and thus 6-C+ calc shouldn't be ignored. It's owned by Natsume himself and accepted to be canon by himself as well, so does other spin-offs like Megumin or Vanir.

I'm not disregarding the craters. I'm saying that the crater isn't as big as the explosion itself, it isn't even an inconsistency.

Yeah, because that's how most craters work in fiction. F/SN for example. And why do they mention it. It's bloody canon, it ties in to the main plotline, that's like saying Fate/Zero isn't connected to F/SN or Phase Shift isn't connected to C-series or DBS isn't connected to DBZ. It's just false.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Also we didn't even saw the 7-B Explosion's crater well, how is it even an anti anything to the feat itself?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Also scratch that, Natsume quite literally said it's not written by him http://ln-news.com/archives/57447/post-57447/

Also the displaced material scales to the force of the explosion. For example a 10 megaton nuke leaves a 1.9km wide and 50m deep crater. Looking at the fire ball and disregarding craters as well as disregarding enviromental changes...

Also this is VS battles where we look at feat and calculate it based on our physics. The only time Megumin's crater size was mentioned was in volume 1, stated to be "20 meters in diameter", how deep? Not mentioned in the novel's, wanna use the anime? That places her below 1 kiloton. But let's say for example animator had gotten the craters depth wrong?



It would place her at 1 kiloton.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Also we didn't even saw the 7-B Explosion's crater well, how is it even an anti anything to the feat itself?

You mean the destroyer? Because LN and Manga did not mention a crater nor what trees or land was destroyed in the supposed megatons calculation.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Yeah? But it is canon. Again, it's directly connected to main story itself, it's still a fact that, you know, she did the feat.

Because we used nuke calculator, which only needs the radius. Displaced material isn't needed for calc, all you need is the radius and that's it. Plus we didn't saw if it's fragmentation or something so it isn't even viable.

And why do you use Vol 1's statement for a feat that happened way after? And why don't you just use a better and much more reliable thing called pixel scaling the feat in Anime?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

It's still canon? So how does this go in your head, Megumin displays a force of explosion not seen in the main novel, an event that should be between 7-9 volumes of main novel vs main novel feats?

Also the destroyer's parts or what had happened (clean up) nor damage to the surroundings were never mentioned because obviously there was nothing noteworthy about that explosion.


Using fireball animation as a basis for your calculations is flawed especially for an anime such as Konosuba.




This behemoth of a fireball did no damage to the surrounding trees and make the destroyer fireball look like a matchstick fire, If I had to guess just from watching nuclear test videos this is by far stronger than T-sar





And left this crater, I don't see what is hard to think about regarding this. If it's a surface blast the fireball is irrelevant, you look at how much material was displaced as well as the blast wave + radius of changes (air blast, heat blast)

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

In Vol 10, Megumin is stated to be able to destroy a country. The statement in the LN is better than we got in the spin-off, hell, the only reason it didn't went through and Konosuba not being 6-B is because we didn't know Elroad's size. And the 7-B calc is far before 9-10. We do multipliers and we get about 7-A to High 7-A, hell, that's what they're stats were before the calc. No muh consistency here.

Yeah, then why would you demand that if it doesn't affect the surroundings, it doesn't count? Again, it was nuke calculator that was used. Air blast doesn't matter, only the radius of the blast itself. Environmental Destruction isn't necessary for the calculation.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

So let me get this straight, the force of the explosion doesn't matter but the radius of the fireball matters (ignoring physics), so a city size fireball leaving a 20 meter radius crater and 4-5 meter depth is ignored? I don't know if you've even thought ahead while writing that but let me give you an example, a giant first from the sky the size of a country hits the ground and leave a town size crater, how does that compute to you? Are you saying her fireball is all fluff and no power?

Anyways ignoring crater and enviromental changes is ignoring the power of the explosion. Also I didn't demand anything, this is simple logic, she had an established 20 meter diameter crater and it's depth was between 0-5 meters, if you scroll up, rather than using fireball I used crater size and in the anime the depth goes up to 5 meters+ as her level grew

Also air blast doesn't matter? Forget megaton, a 1 kiloton would have clearly the trees around Kazuma and blow him away. I'm giving the author credit here (in the anime), the force of that explosion would be 1-2 kiloton based on displaced material. Also destroying a country? Does it say with one explosion? No? Okay. When in volume 9 someone that wasn't that far behing her in potency with her explosion was hitting a fortress wall day after day until it collapsed. Also you keep mentioning nuke calculator, I did use that above.

 

[ShiroyashaGinSan]

Then I would calculate the moment that it hits the ground, not the crater, because the looks of the crater makes no sense. You're gonna apply depths and stuff when you're trying to calc fragmentation, vaporization and other calcs similar to it. You don't need it in nuke calculator. Hell, that's why nuke calcs are usually low-ball.

Dude, you didn't. Just type the radius in nuke calculator. Not the depth. Also how did you entered the material with the calculator....??? No, it's not, it's not ignoring it, it's just that the other methods are unavailable due to not having enough info to do it.

It's logically only one Explosion she needs, she can fire one Explosion at a time then she's down.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Calculate the moment it hits the ground? What? For nuke calculations you just need to look at if it's a surface blast (hitting the ground) or if it's an airblast (air detonation). Megumin did a surface blast and left a crater, the crater is what you calculate and if there is mention of radius, for example "Bomb X destroyed 2 kilometers of the forest and fireball that could be seen for dozens of kilometers"

Also displaced material refers to the ground there.



Saying I didn't take that into account is ignoring the same image I've posted multiple times. Her established diameter in volume 1 was 20 meters, which is less than a 1 kiloton surface explosion. I acounted for level gain and in later episodes she reaches over 5 meters in depth. It seemed consistent until the last episode that looks like a 5+ meters deep crater at the centre (basing off Wiz height). I gave her credit (above) and scaled her explosion strength here at 2-3 kilotons.

Also it's "logically" to place her to barely fortress level when someone not that far behind her couldn't destroy a fortress wall in one explosion (volume 9).

Volume 13 was her greatest feat, she did an airblust rather than

a surface blast and took off the rocks on top of a creature comparable in size to the Tokyo dome, remember scaling (above). The calculation is based on a 200 foot air detonation, from Kazuma's perspective the explosion was "just above the creature". A 6 kiloton nuke perfectly should cover the radius of the supossed creature's summit (90 to 120 meters), the anime had interpreted it as a turtle (opening) but let's ignore that, the fact that it's summit had rocks and not the rest.

 

[Elizhaa]

I do agree with @ShiroyashaGinSan's here.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

I did adress that scaling. Context is needed no? In pure destructive AP she doesn't scale to Megumin as Megumin is superior. Wiz has advanced magic and high mana, what was the result of that (pre-turning lich), she was unable to take one life of Vanir's, something Megumin had done volume 3, something Vanir had admitted himself in the main story and even stated to Wiz in that very sidestory. (quotes above). Her feat of cutting the barrier, I had never denied her of that, this thread's whole point is to scale everyone down. Also despite becoming that strong her spells were ineffective against Sylvia in that very side story, forcing her to use drain touch. An opponent that would be one shotted by volume 5+ Megumin

Also for Aqua it's pretty much

• Never stated to have level 100 stats
• Guild lady saw her stats
• Kazuma saw her stats
• Maximizing your stats depend on talent (potential) and not level, you can gain levels even if you max out your stats
• Actual durability feats
• Actual speed feats

VS

• Let's ignore her feats and scale her to max level stats even though her stats were never said to be such and let's count her feats as inconsistencies (comedy)

 

[Elizhaa]

@Muchacho mrm, I am pretty sure @Aqua has been stated to max stats at everything except a few like intelligence. Well, stats are never really reference by number but just high to low. Durability feats and peed feats are by Powerscaling.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

@Elizhaa

Scroll up with the keyword "max stat", You can max them out without being max level, what was stated was that her intelligence was low, I've already quoted this in my first post. Also her intelligence

["Even though her intelligence is already maxed out and shouldn't grow with her level…"] - Volume 13 Chapter 3

Sigh, I'm repeating myself several times.

["Eh? Huh? What's with these numbers? Leaving the lower than average intelligence and rock bottom luck aside, the rest of your stats drastically exceed the average! Especially your magic, it's abnormally high! Who in the world are you…?"] - Volume 1 Chapter 1

I've already did a compilation of what the other side has above your post. Scaling her to other characters is ignoring those facts (Above your post)

 

[Gemmysaur]

With little knowledge of whatever clusterfck this is (jeez this is a long thread) other than what was in the anime and a little of the manga and light novel, I agree with Muchacho.

Biggaton explosions matter little if the damage done is ruffle some leaves. It's all flair, no power, so crater calcs are the way to go, imo. Make no mistake though, I am no calcer and my ability to math stopped being good the moment letters became part of the equation.

Aqua doesn't have maxed stats until someone can provide the exact quote saying she does.

Ice fishing is not ice fishing if you're not fishing at all. Freezing all the water to the bottom of the lake would make it more akin to ice digging.

What else did I miss? None much I hope.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

@Gemmysaur

Aqua has maxed out stats, before the truth bomb of Kazuma it was correct to assume that she had stats equivalent to a level 100. That is until Kazuma revealed that you can max out your stats without reaching max level and you could even keep gaining levels after that just like Aqua. it is why the Konosuba world isn't filled with level 100 beings (in term of stats), because everyone has a stat cap (depends on the person). Now how do we scale Aqua's, speed, AP (mostly hax) and durability? We look at her feats. What this thread and Konosuba ignores are her feats and consider it 'inconsistencies' / comedy

Aqua Magic resistance:

Aqua magic resistance:
["Ara. So Kazuma, you think you're the strongest one here? Your skills might be convenient and can take down people like Darkness easily with Drain Touch… But have you forgotten? A lich skill like Drain Touch will only work if I'm not paying attention. Do you really think you can do anything to me?"] - Volume 9 Chapter 2

["Hey, the one that proclaims to be a something, get over here."
I dragged that woman who was loudly blurting out her schemes over. I felt that she had the most mana among all of us.
"Hey, what are you doing?! I don't have time for you Kazuma. Let's just, hyaaa―!?"
Aqua couldn't resist my sudden Drain Touch and shrieked.
"You hikiNEET, what are you doing to me during an emergency!?"] - Volume 2 Chapter 5

Aqua physical defence:

[After purifying the hot spring, Aqua cast healing magic on her scalded hand. That energetic idiot looked really depressed right now.

Seeing her like this made me feel uneasy too…] - Volume 4 Chapter 5

[I wordlessly shoved the tip of my dagger into her hand.

"…! …!"

Aqua recoiled, covering the wound with her hand, barely making a sound due to the pain.] - Volume 14 Chapter 5

[As she removed her hand, Aqua's wound was still bleeding without any sign of being healed at all.] - Volume 14 Chapter 5

Aqua speed feat:

["Say, these guys are really something. I can't catch them even with my speed."

To think Aqua, whose stats were all high except for intelligence and luck, couldn't catch them.
The way they made their exit was a bit off, but I remembered they called themselves the 'anti-Demon King's army guerrilla unit'
They must be the elite of the Crimson Demon village.
But after Megumin's explanation, my impression of them…
"They ran away by doping with body strengthening magic. I don't think that group of NEETs who laze around at home would have such stamina."
… Was shattered by words I couldn't ignore..] - volume 5 Chapter 3

 

[Gabriel_00]

"How ignorant, Kazuma. Who do you think I am? Things like
stats were already at the maximum from the very start. My
skill points were bountiful at the beginning, enough to lear
all the banquet party tricks and all the skills of an Archpriest.
Comparing me to a normal adventurer is a big mistake."

And aqua is stronger than Vanir and Wiz plus, she kept up with darkness when she was being controlled by Vanir.

About the lightning feat, the slime was above her so even if she was dodging the slime she would still need to move away from the lightning as she does in the panel. And other adventures are able to fight Arch Wizards who can attack with lightning so they should still be on that range of speed even without the calc.

I think i agree with the lake feat, especially because im not a fan of freezing feats they are not often used to portray a high energy attacks and more about area of effect. But there are still more feats in konosuba, Meguming dealing the finishing blow to the destroyer, the Destroyer being able to destroy entire cities by virtue of sheer size, Wiz also pulverized half the legs of the destroyer, megumin's cloud parting feat, Megumin being stated to be able to destroy a country, And the Destroyer destroyed a country overtime.

The destroyer is unable to destroy the demon king barrier, yet Wiz did it single handedly.

I don't get your insistance on crater sizes and AOE, the animators don't take into consideration energy values and won't use nukemap to se the actual energy output of an attack so the size of the fireball is more reliable and there's already calcs for those, the material dispersiment is also important, there's a huge difference in fragmenting 1 ton of rock and atomizing 1 ton of rock. Also the argument about Wiz not being able to freeze Hans ignores that she was weakened during that arc and she fought and stomped him even though he has high magical resistance. https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/U...iya_is_capable_of_generating_24_-_28_Gigatons

^ this is an example of AOE not relating to AP

Your arguments about durability say that we disregard inconsistencies labeling them as jokes, they are jokes, kazuma didn't deal any serious damage to aqua when he punched her, it was stated that even megumin could beat him physiscally. There are tons of these inconsistencies through fiction, Sakura punching naruto, Whitebeard taking bullet wounds, Goku taking bullet "wounds" normally they are either and outlier or a joke.

You are also using scenes were aqua asn't actully trying and leaving out the parts where she is, you said that she hurt herself when she submerged her hand in Hans "corruption" despite the fact that the damage was kickly healed seconds later and not even 30 seconds after that she purified the entire town when she was actually trying almost killing wiz and leaving her incapacitated for a few days.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Again someone stating maxed out stats without realizing everyone has a stat cap.

[Frankly, since I last leveled up, my stats have been rising even more slowly.
It's possible that my stats are close to being maxed out—a reality that I'm not too keen to accept.
There are no cheats here, so it really is no joking matter when I get stuck with the same stats regardless of my level.] - Volume 11 Epilogue

["Well, I'll just slowly earn my levels back. I'm pretty close to reaching my stat cap anyway, and I have enough money to live comfortably, so there's no need to rush… Let's go all the way to the end with your loyal subordinate, Serena-sama. Come on, let's start over from zero."] - Volume 15 Chapter 3


["Even if you say that, do you understand the pain of not seeing your status rise even though you leveled up? Recently, apart from my luck, my stats barely rise at all. Having more skill points is nice and all, but as a NEET, there aren't that many skills that are beneficial to my lifestyle. I'm having trouble finding the motivation to level up…"
"You're reaching your stat cap, huh… Hmm, well, there are several expensive potions that can permanently raise your stats. We can defeat monsters and use the money we earn to buy those potions and get stronger that way…"] - Volume 14 Chapter 3


Also Aqua did NOT keep up with Vanir while she was being controlled, she did one surprise attack and asked Darkness to stay still so she could exorcise her. The rest of the fight she used human shields:



[When the adventurers figured out that Vanir's target was Aqua, they formed a human wall to hold Vanir back.

Aqua kept casting her exorcism spell from behind the human wall, but both parties couldn't break the stalemate.] Volume 3 Chapter 4

[Aqua retreated slowly as she shouted, but Darkness didn't reply.

The balance between Vanir and the adventurers had broken down. It was only a matter of time before Aqua, who was hiding behind them, was attacked.] - Volume 3 Chapter 4


Also the novel describes an attack headed to the adventurer before Yunyun attacked the slime. Nothing about an adventurer dodging or someone realizing or thanking for what Yunyun did. Non author adaptation < Author words

Megumin dealing the finishing blow to the destroyer was a power boost from Aqua's mana, the explosion in the novel and manga is forgotten because of how irrelevant it is. Also the Destroyer's size doesn't destroy countries, it passes through towns and cities, towns mostly and they rebuild as it is just walking through. The country it destroyed was it's creation one, no mention of any other but there should be. Megumin

[Whenever the Destroyer draws near, the official procedure of the guild is to abandon the town, wait for the Destroyer to pass through, and rebuild the town. It's being treated as a natural catastrophe."] - Volume 2 Chapter 5

Also Megumin destroying a country? Don't make me laugh, she did an explosion on a hill outside of town to help Kazuma, all she produced was a sound big enough for Kazuma to sneak in to the castle but he couldn't act. Her gigaton calculations should have destroyed the town, no?

["With my explosion magic and Iris' sword, we will destroy this nation—"

"W-W-W-, What did you say!?"] - Volume 10 Chapter 4

Also I never denied Wiz of her feat of destroying the barrier, what people forget is this piece of text. Even with a powerup she was unable to affect Sylvia, forced to use drain touch. I'll say she didn't use [Light Of Saber] that she used on the barrier or explosion.

["About that, Sylvia-sama was unaffected by the magic, but then for some reason the invader charged forward. When Sylvia-sama's body was touched, she suddenly collapsed and has become unable to fight, just like Hans-sama…!"] - Masked Spinoff

If the Explosion is all fluff an no power then clearly your calculations are wrong.








Yep, that's Megumin with no level gain attacking the castle, looks bigger and much powerful, no? Well in the novel she attacked that castle for days without fully destroying it. Does that look like a 9-A feat to you? Using crater size is the most logical route, I had actually given Megumin a boost in my calculation above, Forget kilotons, if you put 20 tons into nukemap that is the CANON crater size at volume 1 (20 meters in diameter).

Also Aqua's are not incosistencies. It is Konosuba's page that labels it as such. She is hurt by his punches, it deals blunt damage and he's even broken her focus with it, even broke her spell focus. She then plunged her hand in hot spring water only to have her hand scalded by the heat. Inconsistency? Oh, what about the fact that Kazuma pricked her with his dagger with no effort and she started, bleeding? Again it's this page just ignoring her feats.

What do you mean I've left out the parts where she is trying? Speed feat? She is trying up there, she quite literally stated she was beaten. Durability feat? She quite literally scalded her hand, healing doesn't negate that fact

[After purifying the hot spring, Aqua cast healing magic on her scalded hand. That energetic idiot looked really depressed right now.] - Volume 4 Chapter 5


Also this might be a long thread so I won't blame you for not noticing me filling context up there, she used 'multiple freeze' spells + 3 advanced magic + one last advanced magic. Also in volume 2 using [Explosion Magic] she was able to have enough mana for 2 [Freeze] spells and needed to 'suck' out mana from Kazuma to use [Random Teleport]. I estimated her freeze size to be Kazuma's mansion size or below based on that, also in the sidestory there was no mention of him going full size in the demon king's castle when she defeated him, who would think a slime would grow to a mansion size within a castle, doesn't matter? Stomping a humanoid Hans isn't a great feat ( I am in no way saying Wiz can't defeat Hans it's a stomp since he stated he doesn't match up against her)

 

[Bonesdrowy]

In Vol 10, Megumin is stated to be able to destroy a country. The statement in the LN is better than we got in the spin-off, hell, the only reason it didn't went through and Konosuba not being 6-B is because we didn't know Elroad's size. And the 7-B calc is far before 9-10. We do multipliers and we get about 7-A to High 7-A, hell, that's what they're stats were before the calc. No muh consistency here.

Out of curiousity can someone post the country busting quote for Megumin? It may have already been posted, but I would like to see it in full context.

Also we're all in agreement that the lake freezing calc should be remove and redone right? Or that the MHS reaction speed should be remove as well, right?

 

[Gabriel_00]

@Bonesdrowy, they arguing with a noble from a another country and meguming gets pissed off and says that she and Iris will destroy the whole nation, while i don't agree with 6-B megumin i think that counts as suporting arguments for her 6-C calc. And i disagree with the removal of the MHS calc because the manga doesn't contradict the light novel and mages are still capable of using lightning so adventurers should still be around that level of speed the calc helps quantify that value.

 

[Gemmysaur]

What about using lightning that makes everyone scale to it?

 

[Bonesdrowy]

@Bonesdrowy, they arguing with a noble from a another country and meguming gets pissed off and says that she and Iris will destroy the whole nation, while i don't agree with 6-B megumin i think that counts as suporting arguments for her 6-C calc. And i disagree with the removal of the MHS calc because the manga doesn't contradict the light novel and mages are still capable of using lightning so adventurers should still be around that level of speed the calc helps quantify that value.

That sounds kinda vague, especially since all Megumin would need to do is just cast explosion on the capital and the nation would technically be 'destroyed', what was Megumin's best feat before this and are you sure Megumin wasn't exaggerating out of anger since she can be really childish? Can you find the actual quote, not that I'm completely in doubt to the statement but the actual quote would help a lot.

I thought the adventurer wasn't reacting to the lightning and was already out of the way before the lightning spell striked the slime? Then she wouldn't have MHS speed. At least thats how it looks in the manga, in the light novel it made no mention to her reacting to anything.

Also how would mages being able to cast lightning spells suddenly mean adventurers have to be around that level? The adventurers could simply have decent magic resistance or strike the mages before casting lightning spells or these mages rarely use lightning, that kind of statement is pretty broad.

 

[Gabriel_00]

As i said i DON'T agree with 6-B konosuba unless there's an actuall feat, and although destroying the capital would destroy the nation meguming isn't one to consider those things, what i proposing is using the fact that she was confident that she could destroy a country as a suporting argument for her 6-C tier

@bones @gemmy, mages should be able to defend against lightning magic and other classes should be able to at least react to it. And in the manga she moved away from the lightning in the same panel as the lightning struck the slime and was standing still one panel earlier.

 

[Bonesdrowy]

As i said i DON'T agree with 6-B konosuba unless there's an actuall feat, and although destroying the capital would destroy the nation meguming isn't one to consider those things, what i proposing is using the fact that she was confident that she could destroy a country as a suporting argument for her 6-C tier
@bones @gemmy, mages should be able to defend against lightning magic and other classes should be able to at least react to it. And in the manga she moved away from the lightning in the same panel as the lightning struck the slime and was standing still one panel earlier.

You don't agree with 6-B konosuba, but want to use the fact that Megumin believes she can do a 6-B feat to support her 6-C tier? That doesn't make a lot sense especially since using her "confidence" in doing so is frankly a bit of a reach coming from a chunni teenager.

As for your second paragraph -

Mages do not need to react to lightning magic in order to defeat or counter other mages that use such magic, theres frankly a plethora of other ways to do it without needing to be MHS in reactions especially since theres no actual fight between a lightning mage and non-lightning mage to actually analysis.

This is like saying character X can beat a gang of Yakuza, some of which have guns, therefore he needs to react to bullets in order to beat them (without us actuall seing the fight and just being a statement given), despite this not being neccessary at all. Which means other classes do not need to "at least react to it" unless you have an explicit example, otherwise simply striking the mages before casting the spell would probably be the easiest example I could think of. Of which there are several other examples one can think that doesn't require the opposition to have MHS speed in order to defeat mages who can cast lightning spells.

Manga panels are not oblige to draw every bit of motion separately, especially since we don't know if she was actually just standing still then moving away as the lightning strike. The actual previous panel was a close up of the slime dropping to strike right after the warning shout of the slime, we do not know if she was already moving away from the slime before the lightning spell hit, this isn't implausible since she only moved like a few meters away. Either way she was not reacting to the lightning spell but the slime. Anyways in the source material there was no mention of her moving or reacting at all, there wasn't even a warning shout to make her move (unlike the manga) as it was originally a sneak attack that only Yunyun reacted to.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

@Bonesdrowy, they arguing with a noble from a another country and meguming gets pissed off and says that she and Iris will destroy the whole nation, while i don't agree with 6-B megumin i think that counts as suporting arguments for her 6-C calc. And i disagree with the removal of the MHS calc because the manga doesn't contradict the light novel and mages are still capable of using lightning so adventurers should still be around that level of speed the calc helps quantify that value.

That sounds kinda vague, especially since all Megumin would need to do is just cast explosion on the capital and the nation would technically be 'destroyed', what was Megumin's best feat before this and are you sure Megumin wasn't exaggerating out of anger since she can be really childish? Can you find the actual quote, not that I'm completely in doubt to the statement but the actual quote would help a lot.
I thought the adventurer wasn't reacting to the lightning and was already out of the way before the lightning spell striked the slime? Then she wouldn't have MHS speed. At least thats how it looks in the manga, in the light novel it made no mention to her reacting to anything.

Also how would mages being able to cast lightning spells suddenly mean adventurers have to be around that level? The adventurers could simply have decent magic resistance or strike the mages before casting lightning spells or these mages rarely use lightning, that kind of statement is pretty broad.

Megumin attack potency (based on size/effects/real-life) LN:

Megumin Vol1: Attacked high 8-C (Beldia's castle) for days without fully destroying it. CANON stated crater diameter size in this volume was 20 meters in diameter = 20 tons = 8-B

Megumin Vol2: 8-C was able to blow apart Destroyer legs. High 8-C powered by Aqua's mana oblitirated Destroyer which was described to be the size of a small castle, scaling puts it still within 8-8 as there is no evidence to support 10X increase with something forgotten so easily

Megumin Vol3: Still 8-B Took out Vanir, nothing to measure

Megumin Vol4: Still 8-B Took out Hans who was described to be the size of Kazuma's mansio
Megumin Vol5: 8-A, capable of making Kazuma feel air blast from 1-2 kilometers away (best explosion he's ever seen). Also 'barely' within Megumin's range by her own words

Megumin Vol6: Took out 1K-2K demon king army small fry, possibly low 7-C?

Megumin Vol7: Low 7-C, did an air explosion and "shattered all the glass within town", 0.5psi-1psi across 4+km

Megumin Vol8: Still Low7-C, caused another glass shattering across town

Megumin Vol9: Low 7-C/7-C, took out Wolbach and did daily explosion in the demon king army camps

Megumin Vol10: 7-C, nothing noteworthy

Megumin Volume 11: 7-C, nothing noteworthy

Megumin Vol 12: Again nothing noteworthy, but for the sake of levelling let's scale her to High 7-C. Casted explosion on a lake near Axel, her current profile (gigatons) would have covered the entire lake + empty out if not destroy the lake

Megumin Vol13: My initial thought was low 7-C, took out rocks ontop of treasure island comparable in size to the Tokyo Dome which was at-least low 7-C, for the sake of scaling let's leave that high 7-C

Megumin Vol14: Still 7-C

Megumin Vol15: Still 7-C, possibly low 7-B (no feat of that scale but for the sake of levelling/skill points)


Also the country destroying part was largely comedy to intimidate the other party even though that was not their intention. It was volume 10:

[From behind us, came a calm voice.

Her eyes shining red, and her staff in hand, she took a large step forward.

"With my explosion magic and Iris' sword, we will destroy this nation—"

"W-W-W-, What did you say!?"

"Megumin-san, please don't interrupt and say such superfluous things! That is not my intention!"] - Volume 10 Chapter 4

Also the lightning feat, I should explain.

Manga:



Adventurer Sophie is warned to move out of the way, then a lightning spell comes out of nowhere. What the calculation fails to mention is that the lightning spell comes from Yunyun. While the calculation is based on the Sophie moving 185px in the time it takes the lighting to drop down 372px. Can be found here.


Lightnovel:

[Something aimed at Sophie's head and dropped from the tree.

"Lightning!"

Yunyun's magic hit the slime making a sneak attack at Sophie. It shivered a bit and dissolved.

Everyone looked up at the tree-top from which the slime dropped…!

"Eh!?" X2

A large group of green slimes were tightly packed in the canopy, as if they grew from the trees themselves.]

Nobody warned Sophie to move out of the way, Yunyun directly eliminated it without her knowledge. "Everyone" (which includes her) looked up to see the after-effect.

 

[Gabriel_00]

@Bones what i am saying is something like: "6-C based on [this] calc, she was confident she could destroy a country along with iris"

Your comparison of guns and magic doesn't make much sense if you consider that in konosuba they aren't hiding behind wall to protect themselves from magic, they are in the open and have to protect themselves somehow, and although no fight between lightning users was shown thus far magic users do use barries and counter spells to protect themselves. she was standing still when the slime was attacking her.

@Muchacho once again you forgot the context of the feat, Beldia's castle was protected by a barrier, kazuma mentions that it was most strange for the explosion to have not blown away the castle.

Completely obliterating a piece of metal the size of a castle is 8-C? completely obliterating something is at least violent fragmentation most likely pulverization possibly vaporization. And even if megumin didn't do the feat via her own power she later became much stronger than this.

Also, the destroyer can easily destroy towns just by passing through them, the demon king generals are able to make a barrier that complitely negates the destroyer without any effort at all and still fight like they normally would

even the weakest of the demon king generals was mentioned as being able to destroy cities, and there's megumin 6-C feat.

moving a certain distance while lightning moves too even if the lightning isn't directed to you doesn't disqualify the feat, doctor strange from the MCU has a feat like that and reboot Vergil has one too.

I apologise for any part that has poor grammar, i'm having problems posting long comments

 

[Bonesdrowy]

@Bones what i am saying is something like: "6-C based on [this] calc, she was confident she could destroy a country along with iris"
Your comparison of guns and magic doesn't make much sense if you consider that in konosuba they aren't hiding behind wall to protect themselves from magic, they are in the open and have to protect themselves somehow, and although no fight between lightning users was shown thus far magic users do use barries and counter spells to protect themselves. she was standing still when the slime was attacking her.

moving a certain distance while lightning moves too even if the lightning isn't directed to you doesn't disqualify the feat, doctor strange from the MCU has a feat like that and reboot Vergil has one too.

I apologise for any part that has poor grammar, i'm having problems posting long comments

But using her confidence is a stretch since she's a chunni teenager, especially since Iris immediately deny such a thing as Megumin simply overblowing things.

Where in my example did I mentioned walls or any cover? The character can still beat down enemies with guns without actually needing to react to bullets or needing any real cover. Same with mages, especially since magic resistance is a thing in this verse so the non-lightning mages could simply have magic resistance. And not every fight will have mages in the open either nor would these mages typically be running solo, seriously theres so many ways to explains how non-lightning mages can beat other mages who use lightning spells without actually needing to have MHS reactions.

She was standing still before the slime actually dropped from the tree, she easily could had move a few meters away in the few seconds it takes the slime to fall before the lightning spell hit. Even then, in the LN no one but Yuyun reacted to the slime and there was zero mentioned that Sophie even moved from her spot. You can't tell how much of a distance Sophie moved relative to the lightning spell since you don't know how much distsnce she actually moved after the slime dropped. The real speed you should be measuring is how fast she moved after the slime dropped.

 

[Gabriel_00]

Iris didn't denny the claims she merely she wouldn't want that to happen, the fact that crimson demons tend to be over the top is why i doubt the claim. I still think this can be used as suporting reasoning.

You realize you just assumed a bunch of things right? Although magic resistance is a thing nobody is going around taking lightning bolts to the face and during wiz fight with vanir they did use counterspells and barriers to block attacks.

You assume she moved in the time frame between panels when there's no evidence for that.

 

[Gabriel_00]

Also, there's no need to quote everything i say, just @ me

 

[Bonesdrowy]

I really don't think you can use it as support reasoning when the claim is likely just an over the top statement by a character who is expected to make such claims due to being a chunni. Pretty sure you would need actual evidence that she can actually do the feat or do something close to it before trying to use it.

I was merely providing various ways that non-lightning mages can defeat or work around lightning spells without needing to have MHS reactions. Especially since you don't know how exactly adventurers fight against lightning spells nor have an actual example. I mean your entire argument began with a massive assumption in that adventurers need to react to the lightning spells despite it not actually being neccessary.

I guess since cops that have firearms lose to criminals that didn't have guns then those criminals must be bullet timers right? This is basically what your argument is, making the assumption that adventurers need to react to lightning spells despite there being alternate ways of beating such mages. Especially in a verse like Konosuba where magic resistance exist or items that grant resistance or potions to recover from getting hit from lightning or perhaps most lightning spells deal little damage compared to other spells.

Yes during Winz and Vanir fight they use counterspells and barriers to block unknown spells, I don't see how this is relevant.

What do you mean? Sophie was warned of the slime before it dropped, unless you want to claim that she failed to react to the slime and move away until it was right above her head then that'll hurt your MHS argument a bit won't it? Either way again in the LN there is little indication that Sohpie or any adventurer reacted to the lightning spell, especially since warning shout is nonexistent in the LN.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

@Bones what i am saying is something like: "6-C based on [this] calc, she was confident she could destroy a country along with iris"
Your comparison of guns and magic doesn't make much sense if you consider that in konosuba they aren't hiding behind wall to protect themselves from magic, they are in the open and have to protect themselves somehow, and although no fight between lightning users was shown thus far magic users do use barries and counter spells to protect themselves. she was standing still when the slime was attacking her.

@Muchacho once again you forgot the context of the feat, Beldia's castle was protected by a barrier, kazuma mentions that it was most strange for the explosion to have not blown away the castle.

Completely obliterating a piece of metal the size of a castle is 8-C? completely obliterating something is at least violent fragmentation most likely pulverization possibly vaporization. And even if megumin didn't do the feat via her own power she later became much stronger than this.

Also, the destroyer can easily destroy towns just by passing through them, the demon king generals are able to make a barrier that complitely negates the destroyer without any effort at all and still fight like they normally would

even the weakest of the demon king generals was mentioned as being able to destroy cities, and there's megumin 6-C feat.

moving a certain distance while lightning moves too even if the lightning isn't directed to you doesn't disqualify the feat, doctor strange from the MCU has a feat like that and reboot Vergil has one too.

I apologise for any part that has poor grammar, i'm having problems posting long comments

There was no barrier on Beldia's castle, nor was it ever stated. Kazuma wondered why it was still standing, not why there was no destruction. He was in a position to observe the destruction of the castle if there was no damage = barrier would be his first guess

After Beldia and the snow spirits she had gained a level or two, she did not completely oblitirate the destroyer's legs. Parts were flying everywhere enough for adventurers to seek shelter.

Also the destroyer is small castle size as stated in the novel. Passing through a town and causing damage to buildings and walls isn't a good feat. It doesn't destroy towns, it was quite literally stated it passed through causing damage while the citizens have already evacauated only to come back and fix the damage. Fighting it is what destroys towns.

None of the demon generals have that capability. None of them have AP to destroy cities. If you mean going around undefeated then yes, they can destroy cities eventually. The strongest AP was Wolbach and forget destroying cities, she needed multiple explosions to destroy a fortress wall which is actually near Megumin's explosion potency if you go by Kazuma's assesment.

The feat is by the manga, which medium the mods/konosuba team wants to use is up to them. Just know author did not write those events illustrated by that guy.

It's okay as long as it's somehow readable.

 

[Gemmysaur]

If the various mediums show things differently, then we go by the primary canon, which is the original source material.

 

[Gabriel_00]

@bones darkness is the only person going around taking magic to the face, not even vanir does that as exeplified in his fight with wiz and aqua. and she wasn't shown to move away before the lightning fell, assuming she did in between panels is a huge assumotion.

@Muchacho Kazuma mentions that the castle shoudn't be standing, idicating it was protected by magic "Oh, that seemed pretty good. The impact of the explosio
could be felt through my bones, followed by the air tremors
which trailed immediately after. It's strange that the
abandoned castle remains intact but… What an explosion!"

 

[Gabriel_00]

You are just trying to downplay the destroyer AP, it is so good at destroying cities it is even able to destroy a country over time.

"That's what I thought, but a Demon King's general is said to
be able to destroy an entire city on its own."

 

[Gabriel_00]

Sidenote, Aqua easily dispelled a barrier that could tank several explosion spells

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

@Gabriel 00

Demon king Generals:

Beldia: Swordsman, AP is close range

Vanir: Caster, nothing on the scale of even a town, assumed most potent spell took out a group of mimics and a piece of rock

Hans: Kazuma's mansion size, with enough time will eventually destroy a city, resorted to poisoning water rather than directly destroying the city

Sylvia: Close Quarters mage killer

Wolbach: Explosion user, needed to attack a fortress wall for days to finally destroy it

Serena: Curse potency by her estimate can reach half the town

Wiz: Outclassed in explosion by Megumin, with mana drain could destroy a city with multiple explosions

Destroy a city? For each one it is possible, but context is needed, no?

Also i'm not trying to downplay the destroyer, challenging it is what destroys cities, dealing with it is a simple tactic:

[With its incredible speed and all terrain capability, there are no places on this continent which hasn't been rampaged by it. As it does not discriminate between men or monsters, the rampaging mobile fortress is known as the Destroyer. Whenever the Destroyer draws near, the official procedure of the guild is to abandon the town, wait for the Destroyer to pass through, and rebuild the town. It's being treated as a natural catastrophe."]

It's size is that of a small castle as described.

[they constructed a colossal spider-shaped golem the size of a small castle. ]

Again, barriers are observable membranes that protect, while Kazuma observed Megumin attack the castle and nowhere does it ever say it had a barrier.

You mean the destroyer? Aqua dispelling doesn't really have anything to do with this but if you want to get into the details, well it was volume 2 Megumin and Wiz who both aimed at the legs rather than it's torso.

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

Current ratings:

There are characters with 6-C or higher tiers

Issues:

Firstly let's address Aqua, she is being scaled to the feats of others because of her stated 'max' stats. This is wrong, later on it is revealed through Kazuma that people have stat caps, a predetermined potential using the same terms 'max stats'. You can keep levelling up but you won't gain any stats just like Aqua. Her page should be based on her feats and not others, Kazuma has already seen her stats and stated Darkness to have the highest defense, moving forward, aside from him there isn't anyone other than guild lady that knows of Aqua's capabilities. Also let's remove her 'infinite mana' pool, her mana stats have already been revealed to those two people.

Secondly, Megumin's feats has a-lot of people scaling off it even though most are based on non-author feats that contradict main novel.[ Explosion] magic is the top AP in the Konosuba world, Volume 9 Megumin surpasses Wiz in this. Why did I mention this? Well side-story Wiz had attacked Vanir with advanced magic and even used her lifeforce to increase her mana only for Vanir to counter her spells and state that [Explosion] magic would have taken one of his lives, which is what volume 3 Megumin does and even he admits it's power was sufficient. Wiz's current build gives her a huge amount of mana, which is something she used against the demon king castle by cutting the barrier with [Light Of Saber] that depends on the magic power of the user, but wait, cutting the barrier, doesn't that mean she is equal to several demon king generals and would one shot them with any advanced spell? Aah, no, this is not to say she isn't strong but people take that feat out of context. After cutting the barrier she faced off against Sylvia and her true AP for her other spells were revealed, which were ineffective against Sylvia (assuming she didn't use light of saber). It might seem confusing but just think of [Light Of Saber] as her using her magic power to cut while her other AP is from casting other advanced magic of which their potency were revealed to be ineffective against Sylvia.

Thirdly classes in the Konosuba world exist for a reason. You gain skills from each class suited to your role, for example crusaders can receive skills centered around physical defense, magical resistance and abnormal status resistance. Being a certain class your stats will also be centered around what you're suited for, this doesn't mean you can't raise your other stats, they'll naturally raise with your level up but everyone has a stat cap of their own it is why the world isn't filled with the maximum stats attainable beings, a good example would be other series that have level caps on the inhabitants rather than stat, it's a way to show the truly talented. Also based on talent/potential everyone has a different starting point for stats, for example Kazuma's stats are lower than other adventurers or the fact that before registering as an adventurer you have stats suited for a job or in Aqua's case every job except mages that require high intelligence stat.

Lastly, the lightning feat has been debunked, so no scaling of this, baseline for the current cast should just be supersonic purely off scaling from their high stats.

Fixes:

All 6-C to 7-C or below, for example:

Megumin:


Attack Potency: City block, possibly multi-city block, stated to create a 20m diameter crater (Capable of slightly less than this feat ), Possibly, multi-city block (Completely destroyed a mansion and destroyed the windows of the surrounding buildings), Small Town (did an air-blast and took out the windows within town), possibly Town level (did an airblast and took out most of the rocks surrounding something as big as Tokyo Dome)

Speed: Subsonic/supersonic

Lifting Strength: Superhuman

Striking Strength: Street level via scaling

Durability: Unknow (possibly building level)

Range: Kilometers

Stamina: Can cast explosion magic once

Intelligence: A genius when it comes to most matters including magic, probably the most talented of all crimson demons.

 

[Gabriel_00]

@Muchacho, in the quote that you posted they mention the rebuild of the town after its passage, in the volume they say the destroyer was going to destroy the city, it is right there just read it.

having low range doesn't mean you don't have AP, you just need to scale, also, the demon king generals are able to destroy an entire city on their own there wasn't anything more than that to the quote and Hans attacking the hot springs instead of rampaging through the city was an inconsistency, he didn't knew that Wiz was there and Kazuma's group wasn't famous so as far as he knew there wasn't anyone capable of stoping him from killing everyone in the city.

On that note, nitpicking inconsistencies in a series can justify any downgrade to any series were the characters evolve in power considering it's pretty hard to maintain that consistency, the only exeption i can think of is probably toriko, and expecting power scailing consistency on the level of toriko from an isekai lightnovel is asking too much.

You are using the demon king general that has stupidly high mana resistance to justify Wiz downgrade?That should count as a feat of resistance for Sylvia. She resisted some advanced magics from Wiz who could effortless cut apart the demon king barrier

I used barrier just so that we could have a name to whatever was protecting Beldias castle, megumin was going to destroy it with a single explosion and the fact that it didn't go down was most unusual so much that kazuma mentions how strange that was.

Meguming when powered by aqua's mana "obliterated" the Destroyer, She did either pulverized or vaporized it. And later she became much stronger

"As for me, I fired two Explosions in one day, a stellar
performance. And the second shot obliterated the
Destroyer!"

Megumin has an impressive offence. You
took out the horde of monsters that were chasing the
cabbages right into town with just one explosion attack, all
the other adventurers were shocked."

Unless you are going to argue that the entire horde was packed in a 10 meter radius megumin shows here a much bigger AOE, my theory is that the magic circle restricts the area of the explosion.

Didn't Maxwell reality warped several cities? Possibly the entire country, during the events of the story and explained/shown in volume 7 at various points.

Why was the lightning feat debunked? Lightning isn't a thing anymore? Mages are still able to use lightning magic and protect themselves with barriers and counterspells therefore they need to react to it and other adventurers should be at least equal to them if not faster, unless you count Bones assumption that everybody is runing around taking lightning bolts to the face. As i said the lightning calc should be used to give the charcters a specific value(not to all characters as it currently is), Something like beging of the series Kazuma having at least superhuman speed because adventurer>normal human.

When aqua dispelled the Destroyer barrier the barrier tried to reflect/negate the spell and aqua's power overpowered the destroyer barrier, a barrier that can tank several explosion spells.

Lastly, i do agree with megumin being Multi City-Block level in the beginig of the series from being able to destroy beldia's castle and colapse entire dungeons. possibly town level for being able to hurt beldia with her explosion.

 

[Bonesdrowy]

@bones darkness is the only person going around taking magic to the face, not even vanir does that as exeplified in his fight with wiz and aqua. and she wasn't shown to move away before the lightning fell, assuming she did in between panels is a huge assumotion.

Just gonna quote the specific part since its been a few days.

She can tank Explosion to the face, do you any evidence at all to say that the lightning spell is anywhere near as destructive as Explosion? If not then this statement is irrelevant, its even more irrelevant since you don't know what spells Vanir specifically countered or blocked. Even then, adventurers tanking lightning spells through magic resistance is only a single example of many more that doesn't require adventurers having MHS reactions.

Again your entire argument rely on the assumption that adventurers need to have reactions and speed to react to a single spell that some mages may or may not cast, despite there being various other ways within a fantasy verse. You would actually have a decent standing if there was actually a example within the novels to draw from, but there isn't and you created this assumption based on very little. I don't recall IRL criminals (that don't have guns) needing bullet timing reactions in order to take down cops with guns.

Its not a huge assumption, especially since the previous panel is only a close up of the slime in the moment it dropped. All she would need to do is dash a few meters within the time that the slime move from the tree branch to where it was above her head, this is perfectly possible especially if shs has supersonic or subsonic speed. Your side would need her to fail to move at all until the slime was right above her head. So she's too slow to move or react from a dropping slime until it was right above her head but fast enough to move in relation to lightning?

Also in the topic of the quote stating a Demon General can destroy a city. Is there an actual example in the novels? If not, then couldn't it just mean that a Demon General can kill the entire populace or destroy several buildings through a unknown period of time without anything in verse being able to stop them? Cause that would technically result in a 'destroyed city', just saying. Also did anyone posted the actual quote?

 

[Muchacho_mrm]

@Gabriel 00

It is a small castle size creature, rampaging through a city/town to destroy it is as expected.

Also yes, having lower range doesn't mean your AP is lower than someone else, we actually have something to scale the melee demon king generals to. For example Beldia's killing move boosted by his skill and sword left a scratch on Darkness' armor that had little bits of adamantite, a material so hard detonation magic or explosion magic destroys it, so 8-C and above.

Also i'm not nitpicking, they are not inconsistencies, I decided to ignore the fact Hans didn't choose to destroy the city, him knowing whether or not Wiz was there has nothing to do with it, he already said after thinking it over this was the method he came up with (polluting the water).

I am using the demon king General Sylvia to get a better sense of Wiz's advanced magic potency (not counting light of saber). Sylvia was one shotted by a condensed magic power, only for Kazuma to witness Megumin's explosion after this and to state it was the best he'd ever seen and:

[If she had unleashed this on Sylvia, she might've just defeated her without relying on that weapon. That was how powerful it was.] - Volume 5 Chapter 4

Maybe Kazuma's observation of the difference in power is wrong, but it sure as hell would have given her life threatening injuries. Again this is volume 5 Megumin vs the highest magical defense demon general.

Again, a thin membrane would be seen that even Kazuma can see just like with the destroyer or the mansion.

I already stated the destroyer part, the whole thing was skipped. Nothing about about it's parts. Why are you mentioning her taking out low mobs with explosion? Beldia's undead bros should have been much higher. Who said they were in a 10 meter radius? The heat and blast cover a much large distance than that, also no, the magic circle doesn't restrict the explosion, it's effects cover a large distance than it.

Maxwell memory manipulated targets so that Alderp could rise in ranks, it wasn't an instant thing but something done over time probably to avoid suspicion or his range.

That part about lightning doesn't follow original source so it's out the window. You assumtions...Bones has already said what I wanted to say, but I should also say magical defense is thing for mages. Also Kazuma was still Kazuma in the beginning, he had 0 skill points at level 1. He later improves his stats, something not possible on Earth. Also whether it's lifting strength or striking strength across all volumes he is beneath or on par with this site's peak human.

Yes, Aqua destroyed the barrier even thought it tried to resist her. Also saying it can tank several explosions...You do realise that explosion power rises right? Post volume 9 Megumin I highly doubt the destroyer's barrier would last one explosion.

Whether or not you use nukemap or that calculation, she is high city-block to multi-city block starting point. Also town level for being able to hurt Beldia? Firstly she did not level up before the fight with Beldia so her AP is the same, secondly the anime, LN and manga tell a diffrent story.

LN: Megumin attacks the undead knights while Beldia is staring at her and praised her power

Manga: Kazuma groups up undead and leads them to spot Megumin can attack them while Beldia is watching then praises her

Anime: Explosion hits Beldia and his undead knights, he comes out of the crater and praises Megumin