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Knight & Prince vs Knight & Princess

Ailamiona

Ailamiona

1,345
568
Kris and Ralsei vs Knight and Princess (Guardian Tales)
Idk if this can get added, but it looks fun (Edit, it CAN be added as far as versus thread rules go)

Knight and Princess are restricted to Libera and Window Breaker, respectively. Knight is in the present, and thus cannot use Magiton Grenade or Reinforced Bullet. Princess is in her child form, and thus is unable to use stuff like ToTaS, Dimension Breaker, etc. Kris and Ralsei are both in their Chapter 2 keys and have the most optimal healing items and equipment. Speed is equalized. Battle takes place in the Deltarune battle background-place-realm-thing. Everyone is in-character.

Kris & Ralsei: 0

Knight & Princess: 3

Incon: 0
 
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Woah, is that Ailamiona from the VS Battles Wiki? It is! It really is Ailamiona from the All Fiction Battles Wiki! Guys, look, it's Ailamiona from the Smash Bracket server! The same Ailamiona on the DebatesJungle Wiki!
 
Nierre said:
Woah, is that Ailamiona from the VS Battles Wiki? It is! It really is Ailamiona from the All Fiction Battles Wiki! Guys, look, it's Ailamiona from the Smash Bracket server! The same Ailamiona on the DebatesJungle Wiki!
Click to expand...
Woah, is that Ailamiona from the VS Battles Wiki? It is! It really is Ailamiona from the All Fiction Battles Wiki! Guys, look, it's Ailamiona from the Smash Bracket server! The same Ailamiona on the DebatesJungle Wiki!
 
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Dunno if this fits the bill but here
 
Do all of them need to be required? 'Cause Batman and Robin vs 2 guys seems fair but both are capable

Nevermind, they don't
 
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Well, assuming this can be put in place I would say that both the guardian and the princess have plenty of options.

well the smaller princess doesn't have as much combat knowledge as her future version, but she was still efficient enough to be able to fight (with help) with enemies and give help in her fight with the alternate knight even though she ended up being defeated, so at least as support she should give enough help, her healing should allow her to be able to reduce how much damage if she stands next to the guardian.

now this would be some of the things that could lead the guardian to take a possible victory, taking into account his abysmally greater experience (fighting diverse enemies, among them a martial art master, his own self and including beth herself), his pseudo-precognition and manipulation of perception and with a much greater reaction speed (since speed is not matched in that aspect).

although kris has some good advantages, he may have the advantage in AP, he could reduce some of the guardian's stats advantages (except for the shield ones as I don't remember it affecting something similar) ralsei has the sleep manipulation that neither the princess or the guardian can resist, and both have their development accelerated.

it feels good to revive just for a thread of guardian tale uh
 
Guardian Tales will never get out of the back of my head, so might as well embrace it

Is that a GT duo vote?
 
I don't know what the AP difference is but I'm leaning towards Knight and Princess since from a quick glance at their profiles they have a hax advantage, I'd say Kris and Ralsei's best chance of winning is putting them to sleep
 
Knight leads by spamming electricity manip, and rushing towards the enemy with Libera's one-handed form
Princess sticks back and usually heals Knight or throws random objects at the enemy, only intervening and getting up close if Knight is about to get seriously hurt. She seals as a last resort

Most of their hax isn't applicable in this fight as they are restricted to one weapon each, and every ability on the page comes from a weapon. If you ignore the abilities that have (via [insert ability here] {with the exception of Knight's electricity manip and energy manip}), it'll be more accurate to this match

Knight and Princess are baseline iirc, and can get much higher but aren't due to a lack of calcs
 
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Kris usually leads with their ranged "teleported" sword attack.

Ralsei acts according to the progression of the fight, but he usually heals his ally.

Kris and Ralsei scale to 0.012 tons, if I am not mistaken, meaning they have a 2x AP/Durability advantage.

Kris/Ralsei are good at dodging Danmaku, so yeah
 
well the guardian has experience facing opponents that are usually much more powerful than him as the leader of the vibora clan.. who basicamento crushed him completely at the beginning and after a training he could overcome him even improved through souls that he stole.... and in fact for the guardian this is quite normal being able to beat most opponents that usually surpass him in these aspects.. and as I said if the speed is not equal then the guardian should have the advantage in reaction.. and more with his pseudo-precognition and manipulation of perception... (and only counting the things he did before the world 10)

the lightning spamming i don't see it working at all due to kris's experience dodging much more difficult things.. although the guardian's own combat experience should allow him to fight evenly with kris.. with a somewhat high difficulty i think the guardian should be able to defeat kris...

if we talk about help... ralsei probably can give more advantage to kris.. but the princensa itself is not far behind especially taking that sealing could be a very good option if he sees that the guardian is overwhelmed...
 
TUHTPeaSkull12 said:
who basicamento crushed him completely at the beginning and after a training he could overcome him even improved through souls that he stole....
Click to expand...
Training is not an option here, I don't see how that's relevant to the match...
TUHTPeaSkull12 said:
and in fact for the guardian this is quite normal being able to beat most opponents that usually surpass him in these aspects.. and as I said if the speed is not equal then the guardian should have the advantage in reaction.. and more with his pseudo-precognition and manipulation of perception... (and only counting the things he did before the world 10)
Click to expand...
Speed is equalized, and it doesn't really matter as Kris and Ralsei can make their attacks simply happen on the opponent with a considerable range.

Knight has a ton of hax, but it seems to be based off equipment and what-not, so what's his arsenal here given the restrictions?
 
Knight would get:
Fatehax (Not applicable unless Player is involved)
Energy manip
Electricity manip
Weapon creation
Power mimicry
Danmaku
Everything from Awakening, cards and merch
Resurrection
Perception manip
Pseudo-precog
Summoning
BFR
and portal creation
 
Ailamiona said:
Knight would get:
Fatehax (Not applicable unless Player is involved)
Energy manip
Electricity manip
Weapon creation
Power mimicry
Danmaku
Everything from Awakening, cards and merch
Resurrection
Perception manip
Pseudo-precog
Summoning
BFR
and portal creation
Click to expand...
Oookay, I see.

Kris and Ralsei probably would have little trouble dodging Knight's Danmaku given their decent experience with it, and their ranged teleported attacks are somewhat tricky to dodge. I can see both Knight and Princess getting hit at least once for some considerable damage, Knight will likely adept to it after only one hit due to their perception manip, and pseudo-precog.

While they have Soul Manipulation, Knight don't seem to have resistance to such, thus, Ralsei and Kris' attacks will hurt even more so. Also, Ralsei can heal both Kris and himself because of Kris' Power Bestowal, can Princess accomplish the same?

Kris can reduce one's speed, durability, and attack power with ACTs, and increase their own party's defense, so as of now, it's seems like they win more likely than not.

Not voting yet, I want to see some arguments in favor of Knight and Princess first.
 
Okay

Princess can do that, Dimension Barrier (which she can use as a child) heals all party members and makes them invulnerable to 3 hits of damage, though again this is a last resort. As a matter of fact, what stops Princess from sealing either Ralsei or Kris other than the fact that she doesn't use it often?
 
Ailamiona said:
Okay

Princess can do that, Dimension Barrier (which she can use as a child) heals all party members and makes them invulnerable to 3 hits of damage, though again this is a last resort. As a matter of fact, what stops Princess from sealing either Ralsei or Kris other than the fact that she doesn't use it often?
Click to expand...
What are the conditions for it? I assume she can't just seal any boss away, otherwise it would be quite unbalanced-
 
I think it's also emotionally charged, but it's probably not since she's been shown to do it in cases where she's not
She seals the Dark Magician at Level 1 in the prologue, while Beth was around Level 76. Levels are canon as everyone has them, and major characters take note of them outside tutorials. Dimension Barrier didn't work on Beth because she was 75 levels above Princess, this level count allowed her to one-shot everyone

As her Level is 83 now, the sealing should work on Kris and Ralsei as she'd be around their power
 
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Ailamiona said:
I think it's also emotionally charged, but it's probably not since she's been shown to do it in cases where she's not
She seals the Dark Magician at Level 1 in the prologue, while Beth was around Level 76. Levels are canon as everyone has them, and major characters take note of them outside tutorials. Dimension Barrier didn't work on Beth because she was 75 levels above Princess, this level count allowed her to one-shot everyone

As her Level is 83 now, the sealing should work on Kris and Ralsei as she'd be around their power
Click to expand...
It doesn't seem to work on particularly stronger opponents, though. Kris/Ralsei do have a ~2x AP/Durability advantage, so unless Kris and Ralsei are considered on the same level as her (which I don't think they should be), I don't see how that's a reliable argument. (and would turn this into a stomp match)
 
just one thing, I don't see the stat reduction being very effective especially since the guardian himself and the princesses can counter-attack through their own stat boosts which can also offer things like minor shields.
 
GodlyCharmander said:
... Do that apply to their SOUL, though?
Click to expand...
Yes, Magiton directly attacks souls and stat boosts/reduction can have it applied to them. That's how Sohee and Future Knight use their Party Buffs, they just apply it using Magiton.
GodlyCharmander said:
It doesn't seem to work on particularly stronger opponents, though. Kris/Ralsei do have a ~2x AP/Durability advantage, so unless Kris and Ralsei are considered on the same level as her (which I don't think they should be), I don't see how that's a reliable argument. (and would turn this into a stomp match)
Click to expand...
The Level gap between Knight, Princess, Eva, Camilla and Beth was enough to make all of her attacks one-shot them. If we go by wiki logic, a ~2x advantage over AP and durability isn't nearly enough to one-shot someone, so Princess should be able to seal as the effectiveness of skills are tied to the Level of the user and the Level of the opponent. Princess can't keep up the seal long enough for a battle to incap anyways, but she can keep it up long enough for Knight to defeat them.

It isn't a stomp because Kris and Ralsei still have wincons (such as making her sleep while dodging Knight's attacks, just like when they fought against Susie and Lancer) and Princess doesn't go for sealing first move unless it's against someone she knows will stomp her, and the only instance where she did do it as her first move was after she had 10 years of experience in constant war. That version of Princess isn't being used.
 
Ailamiona said:
Yes, Magiton directly attacks souls and stat boosts/reduction can have it applied to them. That's how Sohee and Future Knight use their Party Buffs, they just apply it using Magiton.

The Level gap between Knight, Princess, Eva, Camilla and Beth was enough to make all of her attacks one-shot them. If we go by wiki logic, a ~2x advantage over AP and durability isn't nearly enough to one-shot someone, so Princess should be able to seal as the effectiveness of skills are tied to the Level of the user and the Level of the opponent. Princess can't keep up the seal long enough for a battle to incap anyways, but she can keep it up long enough for Knight to defeat them
Click to expand...
I see.
Ailamiona said:
It isn't a stomp because Kris and Ralsei still have wincons (such as making her sleep while dodging Knight's attacks, just like when they fought against Susie and Lancer) and Princess doesn't go for sealing first move unless it's against someone she knows will stomp her, and the only instance where she did do it as her first move was after she had 10 years of experience in constant war. That version of Princess isn't being used.
Click to expand...
A Stomp is still a stomp if the Win Conditions are simply impossible to be achieved in every single scenario.
 
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