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Kirby revisions [Spoilers]

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Because Landia had the crown longer than Magolor by a factor of likely millions. And it's far more likely that being evil corrupts you. That's probably why Parallel Landia was corrupted. Because he was just a minion of King D-Mind. Finally, I don't understand the argument that Landia wouldn't use the crown's power when there's again. Two statements and two cutscenes proving that Landia EX is Landia going all out.

About Dark Mind, I don't follow. Because as you said, he has universal range, and not only does he warp space, but he warps space on a MSS scale. Don't quote me on this, but I think there's characters with less clarification who are 3-A or even Low 2-C with that. And I'm not sure if I've stated this, but his defeat removed his corruption over not only the Mirror World, but the Dimension Mirror, and the latter gets destroyed with him the second time around (so I was wrong about Dedede destroying it in Dededetour). Furthermore, why did we deem Magolor as an outlier in the first place? He main argument is Sectonia nearly killed him, but she blindsided him, and everything else is Rainbow Curse, which Kirby took so casually that he decided to literally roll his way through it, Star Dream, who was stated to be a universal threat, albeit as in the lifewiping variety, and King D-Mind, who were currently debating on.
 
Again, Landia having the crown longer does not mean it has been using the crown that entire time, and does not inherently mean he used as much of its power as Magolor. Everything in-game points to Landia not actively using the crown, including being fodder compared to someone with far less experience tapping into the crown's power. Assuming Landia knows what the crown is, which it pretty much 100% does, and knows that it can corrupt people and cause them to go mad with power, this would be even more reason for Landia to not use the crown and simply protect it. Its entire purpose of guarding it was to prevent things such as the Magolor incident from happening, meaning actually trying to use all its power would be ridiculously counter intuitive.

Because range does not equal AP, and has already been stated, Dark Mind did not warp the entire mirror world. He only "corrupted" it, and did not demonstrate any sort of inherent control over its entirety.

Because Magolor is far above everything Kirby has faced before or since. If Kirby had beaten Magolor, and then gone on to beat an enemy similar in power to Magolor, it would have very clearly not been an outlier. However, in the very next game, he is nearly killed by an enemy whose planet level feat is treated as a big deal, and since then has not fought anything on the same level as Magolor, again. It doesn't matter if Sectonia blindsided him. She didn't put him in some sort of stasis. She simply wrapped a vine around him and squeezed, and he was unable to break free.

The villain of Rainbow Curse was like, Large Planet level via its own showings, so Kirby casually stomping him isn't really all that impressive. Star Dream, as you said, is a lifewiper, and we don't hand out 3-A based on that (for instance...). Dark Mind himself does have the feat of darkening a galaxy+ sized area (which lights back up upon his defeat), which is impressive, but nowhere remotely close to Magolor.
 
Azzy, this next part I'm about to say is the most meaningful part of this conversation, so I'm seriously asking you to consider it.

I can prove that Dark Mind had full control of the Dimension Mirror, as upon his defeat in TKCD, the Dimension Mirror is destroyed along with King D-Mind, and unlike Dedede, the Kirbys had no outside influence.
 
I know he had full control over the Dimension Mirror. What I'm looking for is full control of the mirror world while inside of said world, as that would showcase universal power very clearly.
 
I think that Azathoth seems to make sense.
 
But the Dimension Mirror in itself is universe sized. The Mirror World itself spawned from it. Which is why I brought up how King D-Mind Magolor'd himself with the destruction of DM being tied to the destruction of the DM (they even have the same initials :p) Also, DM never left the Dimension Mirror, so his range would be Multi-Universal. Not using that as basis. Just stating.
 
It's clear that Dedede didn't destroy it completely, as it reappears later. However, on the inside, it consists of a full fledged universe. And when King D-Mind is destroyed, the true Dimension Mirror is destroyed.
 
That's not the point of the image, though. The point is that while the mirror contains a universe, the mirror is not the size of a universe.
 
Thing is, the mirror doesn't just explode on its own free will. Dedede had to destroy it after DMK was defeated (but it somehow came back), and it was still intact after the events of Amazing Mirror. Even Kirby sounded surprised at what was going on. All effects of the mirror were removed upon its destruction this time around, evidenced by Taranza returning to normal.
 
Also, Darkanine recently calced absolute fodder as Dwarf Star level, so...planetary Sectonia...yeah...
 
The real cal howard said:
Also, Darkanine recently calced absolute fodder as Dwarf Star level, so...planetary Sectonia...yeah...
Click to expand...
No one's arguing for planetary Sectonia.

Just that Sectonia having a planet level feat being seen as impressive is a sign the verse is clearly not always made with something like universal levels of power in mind.
 
I know the Sectonia thing doesn't. I just wanted to point that out. Mostly just as me making a funny. It wasn't supposed to be taken as sarcasm, if that's what you were thinking.
 
Wait, wouldn't Sectonia's feat being impressive be the outlier? If people Kirby suck up in Green Greens are High 5-A, I don't see how that's the one we raise a eyebrow on.

But back to the Mirror. During the death scene, the Dimensional Mirror and King D-Mind are destroyed from the other side. King D-Mind is already in the Mirror.
 
Even if Tier 3 Kirby is a high end outlier (not arguing whether it is or isn't) Sectonia having Planet level treated as impressive seems to be a low end outlier. And one outlier doesn't make something else an outlier. Actual consistent feats do.

That's really all I have to say on the manner. Also not claiming that any one in the thread thinks Sectonia should be 5-B. Just saying my opinion on that.
 
@Ryu

That's the entire point. You can't accept one and completely ignore the other just because one is higher when both are in opposition to more consistent showings.

@Cal

Random Green Greens fodder is clearly not all that strong. Not every random Knuckle Joe who appears as a random enemy will be as powerful as the Knuckle Joe, with protagonist privilege.
 
Thing is, in the games, there is no the Knuckle Joe. That's Anime only. Megaton Punch is the most attention he got in the games. And still, Iron Mam is stronger. But we skipped over the Mirror thing.
 
@Azzy Like I said I'm not arguing anything against Tier 3 being an outlier or trying to say you think 5-B Sectonia is legit. Just that I don't think the Sectonia outlier should be a reason why Magolor is an outlier. Since outliers by definition are what's contradicted by consistent feats, not other outliers.

I can agree that equally absurd outliers on either spectrum should be dismissed. But I don't know enough about Kirby to say whether Magolor is so I'll leave that to staff.

Maybe someone can calc that "lighting up/darkening a galaxy" thing if that's even quantifiable. Obviously won't get Magolor level results, but it might be useful nonetheless.
 
@Cal

That is the Knuckle Joe. As in, the Knuckle Joe who actually does things other than be a fodder enemy who appears in random places. Knuckle Joe isn't a species or something. He's just an enemy who is reused for game mechanics. He's referred to as a singular entity in his actual descriptions.

Yes and? That doesn't show universe levels of power. We need something far more clear that isn't merely guesswork.
 
Ryukama said:
I can agree that equally absurd outliers on either spectrum should be dismissed. But I don't know enough about Kirby to say whether Magolor is so I'll leave that to staff.
Click to expand...
Yeah, that was the point. If you put either a 5-B feat or a 3-B feat up against more numerous 4-A feats and statements, the 5-B and 3-B feats are definitely going to seem like the outliers. Sectonia isn't the only reason Magolor isn't legit. She's the best example of why he isn't; Kirby facing equal or greater difficulty against things that have far worse showings than Magolor.
 
Azzy, Magolor and Sectonia are the only beings Kirby had difficulty with. But again, back to the Mirror. Dark Mind didn't create the Dimension Mirror. You yourself said that he had full control over it. I'm trying to argue that his influence spread so far that it's connected to him now. He does perform a MSS warp in AM. His defeat in AM removes the corruption from the Dimension Mirrror. And in TKCD, it's fully destroyed. Dedede just destroyed a portal. Just King D-Mind being recalled to the Dimension Mirror was enough to crack it. Heck, to show his influence even more, he shouldn't have been called back if they weren't intertwined, as he's a Mirror World entity originally (or debatably). The reason I'm saying that they were destroyed together was because King D-Mind didn't die until he was inside the Mirror. If he was outside, I'd agree with you and just say his death just collapsed the portal (btw, you think the darkness feat is 3-C?) But not only was DM destroyed inside the Mirror and rook the Mirror verse with it, but he also destroyed the portal on the other side. And again, it removed all of the effects of the corrupted Mirror.
 
I also agree with Azathoth. Perhaps we should close this thread, and permanently leave the subject?
 
Ant, even if me and Azzy were done debating, there's still two other topics that would be discussed.
 
What do you want to talk about?
 
Well for one, Whispy Woods, base Magolor and Taranza. Also, Azzy did say that the feat was around galaxy+. And finally there's the matter of the Dimension Mirror's destruction with Dark Mind (also Kirby has telekinesis in base). The Kirby's did cause Dark Mind to become destroyed, but all of their energy was directed to him. Not the Mirror. It makes no sense for the portal itself to just shatter out of nowhere, especially considering it didn't the first two times it showed up. Not to mention that normally, the Mirror is gold and has abnormal reflective surface. The Mirror was pure black, and the reflective surface was shadow, and this goes with the narrator stating that Taranza was looking at pure shadows within the Mirror. The destruction of Dark Mind triggered the destruction of the Dimension Mirror, as all of the effects of the latter disappeared, and the energy released from the destruction, which is something that never happened when Dedede shattered it.
 
I'd also like to say that Dark Mind even in his first appearance is capable of casually recreating large portions of the Mirror World levels. It's safe to say that he can recreate the Candy Constellation (which is why I was so confused to why you said that we only explore planetary distances of the Mirror World) which at the very least contains one galaxy.
 
Hey, if the Kirby in Team Clash is a totally different Kirby, as evidence seems to suggest, why not make a key or something for him? That way, we aren't assigning a 3-A value to anyone who is lacking in evidence for it, and Cal gets a happy ending.

Oh, but let me make sure I understand something first: is it being maintained by the opposition thet the Team Clash feats are outliers or just not 3-A feats altogether? I think some of the enemies there should be comparible to Magolor, if not anyone else, but let me make sure I'm aware of what's is believed before I make any arguements.
 
I would like to hear my latest comment and Cal's latest comment be addressed. That is, if we could create a 3-A key for Kirby based on his showings in Team Clash since that may have been an alternate Kirby not bogged down by previous feats, and the matter of Dark Mind possibly being able to recreate the Candy Constellation and a galaxy.
 
Well, I mean, I'm not sure if it's a different Kirby, as the games do recall past events, like Kirby's first defeat of DM and defeating Haltmann Works.
 
Saikou The Lewd King said:
Cal the darkness feat would be 4-A. Hatsune Miku's similar feat got baseline 4-A.
Click to expand...
Miku's 4-A feat was the energy generated her voice reaching the edges of the universe. That is completely different from a luminosity feat.
 
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