-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
Kirby Cosmology Upgrade
- Thread starter Peptocoptr27
- Start date
- 4,773
- 1,668
I already do and just pointing it out.
In any case, though I not sure if this is truly qualitative superior or not as whatever this qualified as Low 1C.
Edit: Still completely neutral
- 16,006
- 8,253
I agree with points like Ultima's. Some translations for transcendence points can mean multiple things like crossing over; we tend to go with the lowest interpretation based on the context of translation. On an argument, Another Road seems more like an external connecting space to other realms from its showing and evidence, which makes the points weaker than other cases mentioned above. The space doesn't seem to be a higher world above reality, to me.
- 4,524
- 2,242
I know this is completely unrelated to the thread, but what's your profile pic?
- 4,524
- 2,242
Fair enough.
- 2,648
- 1,481
- Thread starter
- #247
There's no reason for that to be the case. You could just argue that puts it higher into 2-A, which the opposition did argue, but it failed. The reasons why it failed have already been pointed out in the posts above, and those same reasons should apply to Kirby
Being qualitatively superior means you're better than something by an uncountable amount. At least that's what the staff members on this Wiki say. By default, being superior to the concepts of space-time and or the pre-established dimensions of the verse should qualify (especially since AD has both of those), because how are you supposed to be finitely superior to already uncountable/infinite concepts? This "higher than 4D, but less than 5D" stuff makes no sense. Are you implying AD is 4.5D? Maybe some kind of 2-A structure? I don't get it.
Alright, I'll re-edit the votes then.
It sounds like it does, but it doesn't. Nothing said here, in the FAQ, or in the Tiering System supports this point.
That's why I'll be providing it later. I'll elaborate on some of the more complex topics of the blog. I didn't think I would need to, but I do have a lot to say. Again, it's gonna take a little while though.
I could maybe understand that logic when it comes to a character's power level, but when it comes to a realm, it doesn't make sense. Especially since we're talking about being superior to space and time as concepts. You don't need superiority over the space-time of infinite universes as long as you're superior to the pre-established space-time continuums of your respective cosmology.
...which a qualitative superiority is enough to qualify for as long as there's evidence to support said superiority.
It's fine. Misunderstandings happen pretty often on here. I wonder what everyone else thinks about a "Possibly" or "Likely" Low 1-C.
Which means that if I can prove that the kanjis describing AD's relationship with space-time and dimensions (超える) does refer to an actual superiority and nothing else, you'll agree with Low 1-C? By the way, I already said that the English word "transcend" has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. Have you read it the whole way through?
Most of the statements are made about AD's road, but Another Dimension isn't JUST a road, and even if it was, it wouldn't change its role in the grand scheme of the cosmology. I feel like that's a mis-conception worth bringing up, which is why I did so in the blog. It also doesn't just connect physical universes. It contains and connects timelines.
- 43,103
- 37,244
As long as the cosmology has a Low 1-C somewhere I'm fine with it.
The_Pink_God
She/Her- 2,641
- 733
I think a possibly should work
- 7,142
- 4,658
I think it should not work. I still disagree, theirs is not enough evidence for even a Possibly or Likely. And no, nothing you have said has changed my mind, it only makes me think we need to remake the FAQ page so it's easier to understand what's actually needed.
- 2,648
- 1,481
- Thread starter
- #251
If you need to change your standards to deny the upgrade, I consider that a victory, if you simply think I misunderstood the page, then explain to me what I missed or how I misinterpreted it, and what more Kirby cosmology needs in order to qualify for "Possibly", "Likely" or outright Low 1-C.
- 7,142
- 4,658
Your victory requires the consent of multiple Staff members though, and all of them who have visited here so far have had similar opinions to mine.
- 43,103
- 37,244
The victory is because you changed something to make Kirby not Low 1-C. Neither the QnA page and Tiering System pages dictate a qualitative superiority only simple superiority. That is fact.
- 2,648
- 1,481
- Thread starter
- #254
That's kind of why it's such an uphill debate for me and all other supporters, but if you'd just answer my questions instead of ignoring and leaving, it would definitely be a lot more fair.
- 7,142
- 4,658
You have to prove said Transcendence is Qualitative in nature, that containing 4D objects inside itself is not enough, and we don't care what Kanji or dictionary says we only operate through feats and statements, not names and titles.
- 43,103
- 37,244
Please change the standards if that is the case.
- 2,648
- 1,481
- Thread starter
- #257
I can't believe I'm saying this but... Definitions are the reason that words work. No matter the language. Words are what make up statements. You can't just ignore the definition of words, or else every statement that ever existed would lose all its meaning... That would be bias and denial the likes of which I've never seen before. The whole reason the terms "transcend" and "beyond" aren't reliable for tier 1 stuff is because those terms can mean a multitude of things that don't necessarily translate to superiority of any kind, and so we have to go with the lower estimation (that being residing outside of something or crossing it). "超える" literally only means one thing and to ignore that would be going against the author's intent, and for what? Just because the English translations use more vague terms? Even though Kirby is a Japanese series with loads of mistranslations? What?
By the way, I'm still waiting for the answer to my questions.
- 7,142
- 4,658
Which question in particular?
- 4,773
- 1,668
Just to quote his response as it is basically the arguments of semantics ngl.
- 2,648
- 1,481
- 7,142
- 4,658
If you prove it's a Qualitative difference, then yeah.
- 43,103
- 37,244
I REALLY hate repeating myself but ill do it anyway. Change the QnA and Tiering System pages please.
- 2,648
- 1,481
- Thread starter
- #263
And just to be sure we're on the same page, how do you define "qualitative"?
Also:
Also:
- 15,591
- 22,892
Meticulously arguing the specifics of kanji seems unappealing because that isn’t my native language, but I can ask who’d this scale or what stat it’s affect?
- 4,773
- 1,668
Huh.... I will think that this requires a update on the QnA and Tiering System page as in this case, the fault lies in the wording ngl.
- 43,103
- 37,244
Probably just about everyone in and after Return to Dreamland unless Magalor never nuked AD fully.
- 7,142
- 4,658
- 43,103
- 37,244
- 4,524
- 2,242
It does state that higher dimensions should be qualitative or R>F differences on the tiering system.
- 2,317
- 1,080
first dragon ball now kirby
- 4,524
- 2,242
Honestly, the thread is likely going to get closed anyway just because almost all the staff denied the revision.
- 2,648
- 1,481
- Thread starter
- #275
Ignoring the missing info on the FAQ and Tiering System page for now, I just have 2 questions left:
1: How can one be superior to 4D structures, but not be 5D to begin with? How does one finitely surpass infinite concepts and what does that imply tier wise?
2: When it comes to someone or something existing above the established dimensions of a series, are the standards the same as for surpassing space and time? As in, it needs to be proven to be unquantifiable above? (If so, the standards are once again gonna get changed on the FAQ, and at least several verses are gonna get downgraded)
1: How can one be superior to 4D structures, but not be 5D to begin with? How does one finitely surpass infinite concepts and what does that imply tier wise?
2: When it comes to someone or something existing above the established dimensions of a series, are the standards the same as for surpassing space and time? As in, it needs to be proven to be unquantifiable above? (If so, the standards are once again gonna get changed on the FAQ, and at least several verses are gonna get downgraded)
- 2,648
- 1,481
- Thread starter
- #276
They can only do that for so long. If people care about the thread, that is.
Then another one will take its place. That would be an abuse of power.
- 2,648
- 1,481
- Thread starter
- #277
Bump
- 3,719
- 2,778
Magolor didn't nuke AD. It still exists after his death. We can only use it as a 4-A feat. Anything higher is purely speculatory.
Just wanted to say that.
I still disagree but I'm not going to argue semantics. A change to the QnA and all is fine by me since me and the mods so far seemed to have a collective idea of what qualifies as higher dimensions that didn't seem to be stated in those pages.
Just wanted to say that.
I still disagree but I'm not going to argue semantics. A change to the QnA and all is fine by me since me and the mods so far seemed to have a collective idea of what qualifies as higher dimensions that didn't seem to be stated in those pages.
- 2,648
- 1,481
- Thread starter
- #279
Let's not discuss the scaling right now. This is already loaded enough.
By the way, Magolor never died in the story
- 2,648
- 1,481
- Thread starter
- #280
Bump Just two more questions. Don't give up on me now
If there's a place where I can ask these questions without taking up space on this thread, do let me know, but it seems like the best solution at the moment is to fully clear things up right here, right now.
